Marine Defense against bile bomb
Benson
Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-03-07 Member: 148303Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">What is it?</div>I was just in a game that marines should have won, but couldn't due to constantly needing to defend and repair from gorge suicide bile bomb attacks. 1 or 2 gorges kept suicide rushing our base with adren on and did so much damage that marines couldn't repair fast enough before they came in again. In about 3 waves of this, all our advanced structures and upgrades were gone.
I just want to know, is there any way to defend against this?
Sentries wont work since they'll die from 1 or 2 bile bombs
Mines wont work because bile will kill them all in 1 or 2 bile bombs
You cant move into enemy territory because as soon as you leave base, the gorge comes back and does it again.
I just want to know, is there any way to defend against this?
Sentries wont work since they'll die from 1 or 2 bile bombs
Mines wont work because bile will kill them all in 1 or 2 bile bombs
You cant move into enemy territory because as soon as you leave base, the gorge comes back and does it again.
Comments
Really? Recently it seems all people do is whine about how things are "imbalanced" because they manage to expose a flaw in your (pretty poor) strategy. Keep one marine in your base to shoot the damn gorge. They die fast, if the marine cant aim get someone else.
Leaving your base undefended and expecting it to still be standing afterwards is a little silly don't you think?
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What I was gonna mention, and have already far back in the past when I was arguing for moving BB back from Lerk to Gorge:
<!--quoteo(post=1927684:date=Apr 20 2012, 03:18 PM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Apr 20 2012, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1927684"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
BB was fine on gorge, just don't make it do freakin 500 dmg vs buildings and shoot twice as far as GL!!!!!!!!!!!!
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and again after that:
<!--quoteo(post=1949983:date=Jul 9 2012, 04:51 AM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Jul 9 2012, 04:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1949983"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
bilebomb firing farther than Gl is back now that BB returned to gorge...is also stupid.
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In NS1 the BB range was like 5-7 gorge lengths, in NS2 it's like <u>5 TIMES</u> the NS1 range!
But yeah, obviously a bug that needs to be fixed (applies to mines killing stuff through walls and onos stomp going through a lot of stuff too).
The only thing i would maybe change the effectiveness of multiple gorges. While it should be more effective than one gorge it's ridiculous what happens when 5+ gorges rush into a base.
Most of the time, its just to go and f-ing kill it. :P
No need for massive strategy, just go run and kill the offending gorge.
The best time is when hes not yet secured, just run in and kill him before the hydras/crags go up.
Lowering the upfront damage and increasing the (non-stackable) damage over time would work. Keeps the dps the same for one gorge, but means that multiple gorges don't scale as well.
If you can't kill multiple gorges as they waddle their way to your base, don't blame it on gorges being "op", blame your team for being terrible.
There's not much you can do against such a large group of gorges, even a beacon which you trigger when you see them entering the base can be to late. There's only a small time frame in which you can fight them effectively and that is when they enter the base and aren't spread up and you're lucky and have a GL equipped.
When i play gorge i always go for Adrenaline + Carapace, if we have i also chose Feign Death. If i return form the death i can at least get 2 more attacks out before they kill me again.
When i play gorge i always go for Adrenaline + Carapace, if we have i also chose Feign Death. If i return form the death i can at least get 2 more attacks out before they kill me again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is this any different from GL rush?
You're trying to "break" something that isn't broken nor needs fixing.
You're trying to "break" something that isn't broken nor needs fixing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is no big difference and i'm not this happy about how much damage the GL can do, especially to eggs, but this thread is about the bile bomb and not about the GL.
I playing 80% aliens, and never had the problem when i play marine since it doesn't happen often. Three gorges are most times enough to kill a base, especially when you have feign death.
<!--quoteo(post=1955581:date=Aug 1 2012, 11:33 AM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Aug 1 2012, 11:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1955581"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How is this any different from GL rush?
You're trying to "break" something that isn't broken nor needs fixing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is considerably cheaper for one.
I have never seen ANY player stay in base just to watch for gorges (or any other life form for that matter) when everybody would rather be attacking the hive, attacking alien nodes, building new rts, or just plain doing ANYTHING outside of base.
Just try it. Go play as gorge. Wait for marines to move out of base, or better yet, push on a hive. Run in with adren an wipe out half their base before marines can get back. When they kill you. do it again, only 10 res down the hole each time (thats less than a pack of mines!)
This works EVEN BETTER when the gorge is supported by 1-2 skulks.
I'm not saying its overpowered or imbalanced damage or range wise. I just want to know a way (besides taking one of your players out of the game to defend base) to delay the bile bomb rush and give they players more than 15 seconds to respond. I used to think turrets were good for this, spread them out so 1 bomb cant hit them all and 2-3 turrets will require the gorge to target the turrets first, buying time. Now that turrets are useless (and die is 5 seconds), there is no way to keep any life form from having free reign in marine base.
I guess what im saying is not that BB is overpowered, but marine defense is lacking if their automated defenses cant even keep out what you all seem consider to be a minor threat. Alien whips, placed well (around hive, in areas that have clear LoS to the hive), can keep marines at bay long enough for an effective response by the alines, not to mention that they also negate some damage from a GL rush. Marines have no way to invest in any kind of static defense for a similar effect.
I have never seen ANY player stay in base just to watch for gorges (or any other life form for that matter) when everybody would rather be attacking the hive, attacking alien nodes, building new rts, or just plain doing ANYTHING outside of base.
Just try it. Go play as gorge. Wait for marines to move out of base, or better yet, push on a hive. Run in with adren an wipe out half their base before marines can get back. When they kill you. do it again, only 10 res down the hole each time (thats less than a pack of mines!)
This works EVEN BETTER when the gorge is supported by 1-2 skulks.
I'm not saying its overpowered or imbalanced damage or range wise. I just want to know a way (besides taking one of your players out of the game to defend base) to delay the bile bomb rush and give they players more than 15 seconds to respond. I used to think turrets were good for this, spread them out so 1 bomb cant hit them all and 2-3 turrets will require the gorge to target the turrets first, buying time. Now that turrets are useless (and die is 5 seconds), there is no way to keep any life form from having free reign in marine base.
I guess what im saying is not that BB is overpowered, but marine defense is lacking if their automated defenses cant even keep out what you all seem consider to be a minor threat. Alien whips, placed well (around hive, in areas that have clear LoS to the hive), can keep marines at bay long enough for an effective response by the alines, not to mention that they also negate some damage from a GL rush. Marines have no way to invest in any kind of static defense for a similar effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you want stale mates? Also there are ways to slow it down.... Nano sheild , beacon , have a marine stay close to base, comm jump out and try depending on how many. Stop being bad, the end.
Whips don't cause stalemates, but they do delay marine attacks....oh well, i guess im the only one who thinks marines have no way to hold territory as effectivley as aliens.
Alternatively, be more map aware and cut off the access lanes.
Turrets probably need a slight buff if a Gorge can 1v1 them head on, but I haven't seen that happen. And if your turrets are slowly dying to Bile Bombs from around corners, shouldn't you know about it and have someone come defend?
theorycrafting (based on community wiki data):
EDIT(fixing numbers)
Bile bomb = 55dmg/sec, over 5 seconds, dbl since Corrosive
Sentry = 1040 HP
Assuming full duration, 2 shots and 9.5 seconds.
In NS1:
Bile Bomb = 200 dmg, 1.5sec/shot
Turret = 1300 HP
7 shots @ 1.5sec = 10.5 seconds
Major difference. Since BB is now DoT, you can spread your BB shots at 1/sec around the base and still do the full amount of damage. Unlike in NS1 where you focused down a region. So, yeah, it's significantly buffed over NS1.
Grenade launchers can be picked up off of the ground by other marines after the marine who bought it died. GL's are only considerably more expensive when you ignore this fact.
Perhaps he should get out of the chair for five seconds and defend it?
There are simple answers to a lot of these "problems." We shouldn't be fixing things that aren't broken.