Skulk tactic discussion - Intermedate to advanced
Nordic
Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">Not for noobs</div>This is not a noob thread thread on how to play skulk. This is a thread for people who can wall jump, decent skulks, and pro skulks. This is meant to be a discussion, not a "skulks need" or "shouldn't have" (X). This is to discuss how to best use what we have.
These are just some ideas to get us going. Expand beyond them. Just stay on topic.
Ambush spots we should be using but most do not... if you feel like revealing them
What do you still have trouble doing as a skulk?
Post links of a video of really good skulk play for us to watch and discuss
Why we should or shouldn't use carapace and why. Some people do, and some don't.
This is still a beta, and skulk gameplay will change. So discuss whats new and how to make the best of it.
These are just some ideas to get us going. Expand beyond them. Just stay on topic.
Ambush spots we should be using but most do not... if you feel like revealing them
What do you still have trouble doing as a skulk?
Post links of a video of really good skulk play for us to watch and discuss
Why we should or shouldn't use carapace and why. Some people do, and some don't.
This is still a beta, and skulk gameplay will change. So discuss whats new and how to make the best of it.
Comments
If you hear gun fire around a corner don't charge in. Wait for gun to empty/reload.
Wall walk every where.
When escaping gun fire climb walls.
Make use of 3D space instead of just strafing along the ground.
*edit*
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is still a beta, and skulk gameplay will change. So discuss whats new and how to make the best of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
b215
Jumping while in melee range will now get you killed alot due to very low air control and reduced bite range. So yea.. you're gonna have to floorwalk/circlestrafe in melee range now adays.
Jumping while in melee range will now get you killed alot due to very low air control and reduced bite range. So yea.. you're gonna have to floorwalk/circlestrafe in melee range now adays.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. I learned the hard way after two rounds.
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I'm not even entirely sure what the hell is up with bite either. If I'm sitting directly inside the Marine model, my bites miss. If I look directly at a strafing marine, my bites miss. I've been bitten by a skulk looking completely sideways. I've also been finding that I have to get real close, but not too close for them to land. Makes fighting sgs increasingly aggravating, especially when I made sure to get inside their model so it was hard to get shot.
Only played 4 rounds after taking a break for 2 weeks, so it might just need some time to get use to the narrow, short bite.
The new skulks:
<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/wp-content/blogs.dir/463/files/2012/04/i-147001ed5637d0f43f2b0355eeac269c-FatDog.jpg" target="_blank">http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/wp-...269c-FatDog.jpg</a>
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I'm not even entirely sure what the hell is up with bite either. If I'm sitting directly inside the Marine model, my bites miss. If I look directly at a strafing marine, my bites miss. I've been bitten by a skulk looking completely sideways. I've also been finding that I have to get real close, but not too close for them to land. Makes fighting sgs increasingly aggravating, especially when I made sure to get inside their model so it was hard to get shot.
Only played 4 rounds after taking a break for 2 weeks, so it might just need some time to get use to the narrow, short bite.
The new skulks:
<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/wp-content/blogs.dir/463/files/2012/04/i-147001ed5637d0f43f2b0355eeac269c-FatDog.jpg" target="_blank">http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/wp-...269c-FatDog.jpg</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what the skulk bite looks like. It has a pretty big area there. You can be pretty far away and still bite.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/40lyb.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/40lyb.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, i think that was how it was before this build. The problem (if there may be one) isn't how the bite range lines up with the third person model though. Thats a totally separate issue that is related to how marines judge skulk bite range. Its about how it lines up with the first person perspective (where the camera is), collision/acceleration, and interp i think.
If anyone has a real explanation for why the first person range 'feels' so much shorter than it actually is in third person i would love to hear it!
Make use of 3D space instead of just strafing along the ground.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can only imagine this will get easier once the new wave of people arrive on release. Locker room on ns2_docking is a perfect example. As a skulk I can take on many marines just by going over the lockers while they look for me on a 2D plane.
My only advice when camping doorways is to turn off alien vision to check the lighting levels where you are. At first I used to forget this, not realising that this high-up place was actually fully light.
All of this is pretty much skulk 101 though.
It's also simply a lot more fun to do, once you get the hang of it. (Use of the environment is key of course)
i know that this tactic should be a no-brainer, but people often charge in quite a few seconds before the allies are ready. the timing has to be much better than on the marine side because those can cover each other from a distance, whereas most aliens cannot tank very long.
if you are alone but unable to get into melee range for an ambush (and you cannot retreat for some reason), it can also help to focus on staying alive rather than charging all-in, even if it is just against a single marine. using the terrain and unpredicted leaps in all kinds of directions usually allows you to survive for a while (if you really FOCUS on being unpredictable and difficult to hit). as soon as you hear the marine reloading or switching weapons, attack. pistol and/or axe are still a threat, but not as big as a rifle or a shotgun.
this tactic is obviously not always a good idea (don't try this against a flamethrower of if marine reinforcements are inbound), but it helped me out on several occasions.
with the removal of vision-adrenaline-penalty, i almost always keep it active for melee combat again. it seems to me that it makes tracking marines a bit easier in melee.
- The new bite cone of 215 means you have to get very close, and angle almost exactly straight on to the target, to land a hit. So you have to be very precise, while at the same, being very dodgy, in order to hit marines without getting shot.
- Most new skulk players hold down the bite attack and run around, trying to land a hit. The problem with this hold-and-pray method is that your attack window got so narrow, your odds of hitting are much smaller. Much better to try and time a hit for when your crosshair is aiming properly.
- Always try to attack a marine from the side or rear; getting into position through stealth. Skulks are tailor-made for finding a hiding spot, letting a marine walk by, then following up to attack from behind. Skulks are not well-made for charging a marine head-on.
- If you're hiding and hear a marine coming, and then see a marine scan, RUN. That marine knows exactly where you are and will soon be shooting right at you.
- If you have a single crag hive and the option of carapace or regen, get regen, not carapace. Until you have leap, carapace makes you too slow to be effective. With leap you can make the distance up much better, and you will have regen to recover from the extra hits you will take.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As alien com use shift hive first. With shifts you can create eggs, countering the egg-lock when your skulks attacking and dying to rapid. This allows for steady pressure from early game on. Also celerity isn't the baddest upgrades for skulks. Adrenaline is good for gorges and lerks. As soon as you get your second hive and leap etc. you can get craigs and cara for higher lifeforms... but I'm not on topic anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This depends greatly on the status of the conflict. If aliens are owning the map and easily killing marines, I would agree the khammander has this leisure. If this is not the case, most players will be screaming for carapace. I find celerity is only useful mid to late game where you need to be getting around the map quickly. Adrenaline is indeed useful... but again, mid to late game where all the life forms (except skulks) need the extra energy for their abilities.
If you are already owning the map, you will most probably win anyway. This tactic is more for a "marine base close to hive"-situation or if your team skulks trying a rush-tactic and dying constantly. The egg-lock can seriously damage the aliens. Spawn times of more than 30 seconds are nearly a "gg". More eggs are good for holding up the pressure.
You're absolutely right, and it's a cool shift ability to be able to pop up eggs anywhere. The problem is that the majority of alien players are desperate for a crag hive and won't hesitate to tell you so. While egg-locking a hive is a good way to end the game I think it's relatively rare. Besides, after you have evolved your shift hive in order to produce a shift to spawn eggs, won't that shift be target number one for the marines? And what abilities will you aid your team with? Celerity isn't that useful for close spawns; adrenaline isn't that useful for skulks; and no one has enough Pres to benefit from Hypermutation.
The shift has to be placed at a good position, yes. It doesn't need to be placed at an endangered point. Aliens are fast enough when the marine base is near. So I haven't lost one yet.
And yes, some players will complain when you don't build default-order. But so what? I have people complain, because I'm not babysitting them 24/7 with meds and ammo or just because they need a scapegoat for their lack of teamplay. Don't listen to them.
It's quite difficult to determine how to exactly and consistently perform a wall-jump. It feels rather random at times.
The best place to test this on is the "Central Access" Hallway on Docking with "debugspeed" command in console.
Disagreed here, you might be slow but you're a tank against LMG marines with low/no weapons upgrade. Cara will save your life, regen will not. Even against competent marines, with early cara you can basically run right at them without much worry. And regen is practically useless early on when you don't have lifeforms to take advantage of it (and even then I'd say it's pretty bad compared to adrenaline now since with adrenaline fade can blink straight to a hive and heal up, cara/adren is way better on a fade than cara/regen in 215).
It's quite difficult to determine how to exactly and consistently perform a wall-jump. It feels rather random at times.
The best place to test this on is the "Central Access" Hallway on Docking with "debugspeed" command in console.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd also want comments on this one - OP asks for people who can walljump, well, I cannot, not this patch - only sometimes I get a meager boost from a wall and it's gone the moment I touch ground again. I never was a good walljumper but now it feels like it hardly exists.
Walljumping definitely still got some great benefits, skulks gain alot more speed, and can be pretty hard to hit when jumping correctly from wall to wall.
I practiced this technique quite a bit throughout the beta. And I still find it to be the skulks best weapon to close distance to marines even after the needed nerf.
I recommend celerity for walljumping, but a vanilla skulk, or even cara skulk is still able to do it to avoid lots of bullets.
* Run toward large groups of marines in a straight line down the hallway
* Hold down the bite button while approaching groups of marines
* Do not hide; the skulk is best used in isolation and in the open (out in the open allows the easiest route of access to the marine!)
* Do not form groups of skulks; the skulk is best used while evenly spread across the map and while out in the open
I mean generally this is what I do.
Here's an example on summit: Marines start sub. You start Datacore. Marines are now in Flight control building a rez node. What do you do? -Alot- of people go attack the rines in flight building the node, while it's perfectly viable going to attack computer lab (which they obviously built on the way) you get some damage in on the rt, marines have to backtrack one third of the map, and maybe, just maybe you can kill one of them or escape when they arrive.
TLDR: You don't always have to kill marines to kill extractors.
It's quite difficult to determine how to exactly and consistently perform a wall-jump. It feels rather random at times.
The best place to test this on is the "Central Access" Hallway on Docking with "debugspeed" command in console.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am not the best with wall jump, but I can get a good 2-3 wall jumps and really get moving. Usually I will do that, then mess up my jumping and end up slowing down.
Not always true. I used to play in a weekly LAN with hardcore players. While they would check some ceilings, they didn't check all of them. So many times 3 Marines would walk right under me and with Silence I'd eat them all from behind.
As someone else mentioned, this gets easier if they're concentrating on something else down the hallway. Like a gorge or another Skulk or the Res Node their Comm wants them to build.
<!--quoteo(post=1955129:date=Jul 30 2012, 10:11 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Jul 30 2012, 10:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1955129"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess I do have a protip to share though: Don't attack marines.
Here's an example on summit: Marines start sub. You start Datacore. Marines are now in Flight control building a rez node. What do you do? -Alot- of people go attack the rines in flight building the node, while it's perfectly viable going to attack computer lab (which they obviously built on the way) you get some damage in on the rt, marines have to backtrack one third of the map, and maybe, just maybe you can kill one of them or escape when they arrive.
TLDR: You don't always have to kill marines to kill extractors.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YES YES YES
Most don't utilize the power that Skulks are still much faster than Marines. A key element in NS1 is which team controls the engagements. Aliens are faster and can cover more of the map, and if the Marines just play fire fighter running around the map chasing "structure under attack" they will lose. Marines win by forcing crucial engagements and winning them, and eventually gaining mobility with PGs and JPs.
Depends on distance I think as you said. Close hive to marine base I would go carapace, especially if marines were slaughtering the skulks. If we were far away (eg Cave on mineshaft), then celerity may be needed.
However this is all a bit of a moot point since most commanders tend to go with second hive and leap before upgrades. Only if aliens are struggling to hold ground do I get upgrades first.
Here's an example on summit: Marines start sub. You start Datacore. Marines are now in Flight control building a rez node. What do you do? -Alot- of people go attack the rines in flight building the node, while it's perfectly viable going to attack computer lab (which they obviously built on the way) you get some damage in on the rt, marines have to backtrack one third of the map, and maybe, just maybe you can kill one of them or escape when they arrive.
TLDR: You don't always have to kill marines to kill extractors.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. That is a really pro tip. Very few people do that. On a tagent of that... Say the marines push flight for like one extractor, all the aliens seem to follow. I like to go the opposite direction and or attack their base while they are absent.