NS2 a perfect solution

oldassgamersoldassgamers Join Date: 2011-02-02 Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited June 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
Lets remove the armory buy menu. To solve the economy overflow in late game, by letting the commander drop the weapons to their team mates around the armory like in NS1 (a perfect solution to solve the ecomony overflow in late game for marines, this allow marines to always spend money in early to late game).

I feel ns2 is like a bran new game, because of updated graphic and new unique content. So this change won't be to similar to NS1

No dissagrement here of the community in my topic about my thoughts for the perfect solution. Any dissagrement is permanent removal from this thread :)

<b>Edit:
Why is there two topics by me? I only posted it one time :S</b>

Comments

  • MaTinMaTin Join Date: 2012-06-28 Member: 153740Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I played lots of NS1 and NS2 Beta and I read a lot of threads in this forum lately but it never came to my mind to register.
    That said, I took action and registered just a minute ago to say:
    <b>I disagree</b> :)

    But I want to see gorges building hives again. That would be awesome :)
  • [R8]DJBourgeoisie[R8]DJBourgeoisie Join Date: 2007-09-05 Member: 62176Members
    Of all the things UWE changed in NS2 that I completely disagree with, this is one change I feel is a good one. Favoritism in NS1 was rampant where commanders would only look at the scoreboard and drop better weapons for the already good players which often deterred new players from sticking with NS1 in the first place. There are alternate ways of resolving this problem of the end game.
  • oldassgamersoldassgamers Join Date: 2011-02-02 Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1947330:date=Jun 28 2012, 05:40 PM:name=MaTin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaTin @ Jun 28 2012, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I played lots of NS1 and NS2 Beta and I read a lot of threads in this forum lately but it never came to my mind to register.
    That said, I took action and registered just a minute ago to say:
    <b>I disagree</b> :)

    But I want to see gorges building hives again. That would be awesome :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You dissagreed with my thougts....
    <b>Removing your answer....</b>

    <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Deleting....<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
    <!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Clean up.....<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
    <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Rub out......<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
    <!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Wipe out.....<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
    <!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Sterilize....<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
  • oldassgamersoldassgamers Join Date: 2011-02-02 Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1947331:date=Jun 28 2012, 05:43 PM:name=[R8]DJBourgeoisie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ([R8]DJBourgeoisie @ Jun 28 2012, 05:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947331"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Of all the things UWE changed in NS2 that I completely disagree with, this is one change I feel is a good one. Favoritism in NS1 was rampant where commanders would only look at the scoreboard and drop better weapons for the already good players which often deterred new players from sticking with NS1 in the first place. There are alternate ways of resolving this problem of the end game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You dissagreed with my thougts....
    <b>Removing your answer....</b>

    <!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Deleting....<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
    <!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Clean up.....<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
    <!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Rub out......<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
    <!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Wipe out.....<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
    <!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Sterilize....<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
  • JayarisJayaris Join Date: 2012-03-24 Member: 149321Members
    I feel a rollback to 209 would be the best way to fix the economy issues.
  • DrummerDrummer Join Date: 2004-02-18 Member: 26654Members
    i feel valve actually rolling out 211 should be tried first
  • 1dominator11dominator1 Join Date: 2010-11-19 Member: 75011Members
    I always did like the NS1 economy more than that of NS2, if only because there was less res floating around in the first one.
  • TweadleTweadle Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39686Members, NS2 Map Tester
    To be honest, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to return that responsibility to the commander. It lets commanders have more control over what strategy is going on (it's frustrating if you're going for a jetpack/shotgun rush but it fails because somebody has been buying too many mines or died too soon etc.) and it is a great res-sink late into the game. It also lets the weapons be more powerful because of their higher Tres cost tradeoffs and their fewer appearances.

    That said, for the average player, being able to buy your own weapons is fun and I can totally understand why it was introduced. You're always in control of your own fate as a field-marine and your dependency on the commander is lowered (good for public, especially). Less experienced players also get to share the gun action, though the guns have to be way less powerful to compensate.

    I'm kind of torn on this one. No obvious solution to these apparent mutually exclusive benefits but I'd hope that one exists and that we can find it pronto. I imagine that most of the solutions put forward will be castable buffs like nanoshield or, alternatively, more AI-controlled units. Neither of those scenarios particularly appeals to me though I guess that castable buffs could possibly be done in good taste. It's just hard to envisage buffs that give an acceptable advantage to a player that doesn't break the skill-battle component of every encounter like nano-shield does, for example. Catalyst packs could be a decent place to start?
  • TimMcTimMc Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143945Members
  • AngeluszAngelusz Harmonic entropist Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The way things work in NS2 are there for a reason, one of which (a really important one) has already been noted by [R8]DJBourgeoisie. Personally, I don't think this will change anymore.

    Rest assured, the devs are very much aware of the current problems with the resource system and are conjuring up ways to improve it. There's a lot of testing being done and I'm confident a solution will be presented, in time. :)
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    You know you can already drop weapons for your players as comm.....
  • elmo9000elmo9000 Join Date: 2012-03-24 Member: 149324Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1947389:date=Jun 28 2012, 10:50 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jun 28 2012, 10:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947389"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know you can already drop weapons for your players as comm.....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    But that doesnt use any tres which was the whole point of his post. Personally never been a fan of the whole pres system.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
    Pres are not so bad for marines, they avoid some problems in pub games, and don't really matter in organized games, because you buy what the comm says anyway.

    But I agree that being able to drop weapons with tres (keeping the pres system) would be a nice alternative to turret spam late game.
  • AtoneAtone Join Date: 2009-09-21 Member: 68839Members
    I am all for removing the armory/protolab buy menu. It doesn't feel right to me at all.
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Re-linking pres and tres without destroying the scaling nature of pres is not hard. Have the comm dole out P-res. 1 T-res becomes x P-res for each player.
  • acid_rainacid_rain NS2 NAPT Mascot Austin, TX Join Date: 2010-02-16 Member: 70588Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester
    I think I'd rather keep the option in to allow both dropping and players to buy their own weapons. It's the CO's job to get on that microphone and tell everyone what the plan is. That is something I've always enjoyed hearing since NS1. I don't think I've ever played a game that required so much teamwork since NS1.
  • TyphonTyphon Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1899Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1947788:date=Jun 29 2012, 03:24 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Jun 29 2012, 03:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Re-linking pres and tres without destroying the scaling nature of pres is not hard. Have the comm dole out P-res. 1 T-res becomes x P-res for each player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I like this idea.
  • cake.cake. Join Date: 2012-01-12 Member: 140165Members
  • .ADHd.ADHd Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
    At the current... I don't think this would be a good idea as this game seems to be much less organized in pubs than NS1.

    People also don' find it fun not being able to play the way they want to with the guns they want. Nothing is worse than having a slow or bad comm... imagine trying to get a shottie....
  • ellnicellnic Join Date: 2010-07-19 Member: 72559Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    NS2 is supose to be a brand new game though. Its been said a few times, with the ease of moddibility of this game, that someone will eventually make a mod that is NS1 but with the NS2 engine. A lot of people want it so it will probebly happen. So lets just let the devs do what they think is right for this game
  • mushookeesmushookees Join Date: 2008-03-26 Member: 63967Members
    why not allow the commander to place weapons in the armory, so that marines can buy weapons for free when there are available weapons
  • Death_by_bulletsDeath_by_bullets Join Date: 2004-03-14 Member: 27336Members
    edited July 2012
    Something that bugs me about NS2 is people think that since it's number 2 in the series, it isn't allowed to us things from NS1. At times it seems like they try very hard to not duplicate things from NS1. But in all honesty, if certain things worked in NS1 very well, why not just bring them into NS2? Then you can focus on adding either new Alien classes and abilities as well as new marine tech.

    So with that being said, make the command drop weps. As a commander, there reaches a certain time when you are just all bored as hell because you've researched everything and all you do is drop meds, ammo and nano.
  • ceribikceribik Join Date: 2009-11-24 Member: 69492Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver
    <!--quoteo(post=1948293:date=Jul 2 2012, 12:25 PM:name=Death_by_bullets)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Death_by_bullets @ Jul 2 2012, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948293"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So with that being said, make the command drop weps. As a commander, there reaches a certain time when you are just all bored as hell because you've researched everything and all you do is drop meds, ammo and nano.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Uh.. I'm fairly sure commanders can already drop weapons...
  • cryptcrypt Join Date: 2004-04-22 Member: 28091Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1948303:date=Jul 1 2012, 11:22 PM:name=ceribik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ceribik @ Jul 1 2012, 11:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948303"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Uh.. I'm fairly sure commanders can already drop weapons...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, but by paying for them with his personal res. It's kinda like he would jump out of the chair and by weapons for himself and drop them on the ground.
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1948129:date=Jul 1 2012, 06:53 AM:name=mushookees)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mushookees @ Jul 1 2012, 06:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1948129"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why not allow the commander to place weapons in the armory, so that marines can buy weapons for free when there are available weapons<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ^This!

    Keep the pRes System but allow the com to buy weapons for tRes and place them in the armory for free use.
  • cryptcrypt Join Date: 2004-04-22 Member: 28091Members, Constellation
    I dont even know why the comm should use pRes. Just let both comms not get pRes while commanding and voila, one less type of res that can create confusion.
  • UzguzUzguz Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17016Members, Constellation
    ...There's confusion?
  • cryptcrypt Join Date: 2004-04-22 Member: 28091Members, Constellation
    Just like with energy... for new players. I mean, why do you get 2 different ressource-types from the same source?
  • -Azona--Azona- Join Date: 2012-04-07 Member: 150074Members
    bad idea if you ask me, let your faith purely deside on commander is already as bad as it now, commander at late builds never listen to what marines have to say, spamming command ask for medpack 50 times and get nothing same with ammo is already bad as it is, let stand marines give tatical advice place armory or something els most commander totaly dont give a ###### about there marines.

    Let commander also deside who get what weapon is making game even worse for the marines that has to do all dirty hard work.

    if I command I help those that listen to me, try to help those request armory on strategy points to help defend or push, I ignore those that run solo to a hive to die whining they dont get medpack, whel its to dangderous to go alone, helping those that do there best for the team sometimes already frustrating if 1 side keeps alien busy and 1 or 2 taking ground form other side keep eye out on both side and then also got place weapons on the ground for those keep dieying.

    At moment its fine as it is, how ever if commander want to give marine a weapon I find it stupid it has to come out of his own income, dropped item should be cost team ress instead of Pres of commander self.

    It would not be OP early game due fact got have trade off and end game if you swimming on TR anyway you at least spending it to let your team push, if you dont got swimming TR you not able to put them down anyway, it will speed up end games and have more strategy value early game.

    Make weapon drops cost TR instead of PR also make strategy value to commander, would I give my team shotguns over expansion or upgrades or let them keep there rifle and get upgrades or more RT instead.

    Removing marines own buying form armory is bad, at least let marine self chose if it wants to buy weapon x or JP for him self if he wants to with Pres and if commander can and want to spend team ress on weapons and items he should also.

    overal would only improve game play, decisions made will be different depending on situation, and wont realy impact early game and speed up end game, same should be with aliens, if commander gives a alien form should be team ress, early game will also be trade off, higher life form, less upgrade and expansion or visa versa.
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