NS2 aimed for progamer focus?
Luigi7891
Join Date: 2012-06-16 Member: 153323Members
Join Date: 2012-06-16 Member: 153323Members
Is this game aim at the professional gamer market?
i ask this as the game seems designed in such a way (much like dota-likes) to be intentionally hard. and i feel as if ive wasted my money (dont get me wrong its not a bad game and ive had some really good games but not $35 worth.) i believe this to be mostly my fault, got to hyped up, i guess and didnt come to the forums first.
i've been playing FPS's since Doom 2, and am not an unskilled player, but im having problems thinking how this game will draw in many people outside of the hardcore pro-gamer circuit. as other games geared towards the pro level tend to have tiers or a ranking system, allowing for low skilled players to be matched against others their skill level. as of now (i am not certain if the devs are planning a ranking system, but dont think they will, as the game is currently user owned servers.)
but, this is really just my goodbyes, and final thoughts
this game is obscenely hard, by its own mechanics. this (IMPO) is a huge flaw. the game should be deep not hard. as of now, with the extremely fast speeds and chaotic movements, its just hard to even aim (either side) and i dont think one should be fighting the mechanics they should be fighting their opponent
yes, i know the opponent is also under the same constraints, think of it like this.
take Soccer (football) and think how it would play if you kept the same rules but changed the ball from the round one it is to something more like the american egg shaped football (handegg) it changes from insanely difficult to control the ball and only a few highly practised people can really do it, but the amatures are going to have a hard time getting into it.... its kinda why Soccer is the worlds most played sport. is simple to play but has alot of depth to explore and master.
but this is my current problem. thanks for the fun. but this isnt for me.
i ask this as the game seems designed in such a way (much like dota-likes) to be intentionally hard. and i feel as if ive wasted my money (dont get me wrong its not a bad game and ive had some really good games but not $35 worth.) i believe this to be mostly my fault, got to hyped up, i guess and didnt come to the forums first.
i've been playing FPS's since Doom 2, and am not an unskilled player, but im having problems thinking how this game will draw in many people outside of the hardcore pro-gamer circuit. as other games geared towards the pro level tend to have tiers or a ranking system, allowing for low skilled players to be matched against others their skill level. as of now (i am not certain if the devs are planning a ranking system, but dont think they will, as the game is currently user owned servers.)
but, this is really just my goodbyes, and final thoughts
this game is obscenely hard, by its own mechanics. this (IMPO) is a huge flaw. the game should be deep not hard. as of now, with the extremely fast speeds and chaotic movements, its just hard to even aim (either side) and i dont think one should be fighting the mechanics they should be fighting their opponent
yes, i know the opponent is also under the same constraints, think of it like this.
take Soccer (football) and think how it would play if you kept the same rules but changed the ball from the round one it is to something more like the american egg shaped football (handegg) it changes from insanely difficult to control the ball and only a few highly practised people can really do it, but the amatures are going to have a hard time getting into it.... its kinda why Soccer is the worlds most played sport. is simple to play but has alot of depth to explore and master.
but this is my current problem. thanks for the fun. but this isnt for me.
Comments
People are terrible at soccer the first few times they play it.
This is a problem that will slowly begin to highlight itself as FPS games in general grow more popular. There will be more poor players and more pro players.
Wow. I could have made that so much shorter. I'm sorry. I suck. But you got the point.
EDIT: I don't think this is a problem for NS2 though, not yet atleast. There's so much to do, gorging, healing, building, destroying stuff, building stuff, etc. important strategic bizz with much less challenge. It's only if you're obsessed with being #1 and rushing all the time (guilty, I love rushing) you might feel frustrated.
this game is obscenely hard, by its own mechanics. this (IMPO) is a huge flaw. the game should be deep not hard. as of now, with the extremely fast speeds and chaotic movements, its just hard to even aim (either side) and i dont think one should be fighting the mechanics they should be fighting their opponent<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this a complaint to how unpolished the game is? I guess it is, because in all fairness you can't really call NS2 fast if you've played NS1. I share the sentiment that melee-combat in NS2 is the wrong kind of fast-paced with players frantically jumping all over desperate to get a bite in, while the animations really do not shine in such moments but rather make things more unclear and chaotic. I'm assuming things will get a little bit better before release though.
Improved performance will help solve a lot of the ops frustration. But I think at release it will be tailored more for the hardcore player.
Yes, this is a problem - marine vs. skulk close quarters looks chaotic as hell and skulk model is derping all over you biting you with its ass from 8 meters. Polish will surely fix. ^_^
it just feels im fighting the game more than the other team. and to me that is a game breaker. my best example being the aliens... most of them rely on being in melee range where in youre vision only has a marine leg on screen for a fraction of a second. and this is just you fighting the mechanic better than the opposing player. this could be better remedied by pulling the screen back to third person. but the game was never balanced around this style and would completely break it for a while.
but as i said earlier. if you like the mechanics as is, more power to you. its just not for me, twitch gaming can work in certain scenarios for me (like starcraft) but not often... and i know this game wont change from its current direction, so i will just take my leave. but thanks for the sentiment!
(NS1 was faster? wow, so this game is ALOT more like DOTA-likes than i thought. hugely complex, hugely noob unfriendly, tight, if small, dedicated community) ill wait until someone makes a dumbed down version (see SMNC compaired to DotA) that i can play.
I still really like this game even when I get killed a bunch.
As for the game being fast paced, I think once performance issues are addressed closer to release, the alien gameplay will be much smoother and marines wont have to shoot at skulks lagging up and down walls.
I disagree. Twitch shooting is pretty much the definition of skill. Knowing tactics is just wisdom that comes from playing. Being able to shoot someone deadon in less than a second, or bite at the exact moment of impact, is skill. I don't tend to play this game enough to be very skillful, but having played NS1 and now NS2 I do have a fair amount of 'wisdom' about the mechanics and tactics - so I tend to gorge. Like the engineer in TF2, its far more forgiving if you know alot, but don't care enough to invest in becoming a good aim.
<!--quoteo(post=1944144:date=Jun 17 2012, 11:45 AM:name=Luigi7891)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Luigi7891 @ Jun 17 2012, 11:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944144"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it just feels im fighting the game more than the other team. and to me that is a game breaker. my best example being the aliens... most of them rely on being in melee range where in youre vision only has a marine leg on screen for a fraction of a second. and this is just you fighting the mechanic better than the opposing player. this could be better remedied by pulling the screen back to third person. but the game was never balanced around this style and would completely break it for a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just you being used to symmetrical games (edit: games where both sides follow identical rules and setups). NS is all about the asymmetrical teams, and understanding the ruleset both sides follow in order to outmaneuver them. Melee limitation means you will take cover, not run down corridors, go through vents and invest alot in speed upgrades. It makes the combat far more interesting as you tactically set yourself up.
(NS1 was faster? wow, so this game is
<!--quoteo(post=1944144:date=Jun 17 2012, 11:45 AM:name=Luigi7891)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Luigi7891 @ Jun 17 2012, 11:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944144"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ALOT more like DOTA-likes than i thought. hugely complex, hugely noob unfriendly, tight, if small, dedicated community) ill wait until someone makes a dumbed down version (see SMNC compaired to DotA) that i can play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it was faster, and more twitch based. However it also had combat mode which was a more gentle introduction to the game.
He is complaining alot about failing at shooting stuff, which should be pretty much same in combat. Combat just removes commanders, so less depth.
i ask this as the game seems designed in such a way (much like dota-likes) to be intentionally hard. and i feel as if ive wasted my money (dont get me wrong its not a bad game and ive had some really good games but not $35 worth.) i believe this to be mostly my fault, got to hyped up, i guess and didnt come to the forums first.
i've been playing FPS's since Doom 2, and am not an unskilled player, but im having problems thinking how this game will draw in many people outside of the hardcore pro-gamer circuit. as other games geared towards the pro level tend to have tiers or a ranking system, allowing for low skilled players to be matched against others their skill level. as of now (i am not certain if the devs are planning a ranking system, but dont think they will, as the game is currently user owned servers.)
but, this is really just my goodbyes, and final thoughts
this game is obscenely hard, by its own mechanics. this (IMPO) is a huge flaw. the game should be deep not hard. as of now, with the extremely fast speeds and chaotic movements, its just hard to even aim (either side) and i dont think one should be fighting the mechanics they should be fighting their opponent
yes, i know the opponent is also under the same constraints, think of it like this.
take Soccer (football) and think how it would play if you kept the same rules but changed the ball from the round one it is to something more like the american egg shaped football (handegg) it changes from insanely difficult to control the ball and only a few highly practised people can really do it, but the amatures are going to have a hard time getting into it.... its kinda why Soccer is the worlds most played sport. is simple to play but has alot of depth to explore and master.
but this is my current problem. thanks for the fun. but this isnt for me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what do you want the game to do, hold your hand? give you CoD autoaim? bright flashing text on screen whenever there's a skulk in some dark corner, and have it outline it in neon green for you to see? apply a bullet time effect whenever some marine is shooting at you so that you can dodge the individual bullets?
what exactly are you looking for here? it's an fps. a skill based fps.
The mechanics will be rough on you the first days, you will be clueless the first few days. but the more you play, the more you will understand. You're not in a game where a one-man army can destroy an entire team. Your chance of succes is made by your entire team. It's based on your commanders leadingship and his squads. You're part of his squads. You build his structures and you will be rewarded with resources to buy better equipment provided by your commander. Basically, if you haven't tried it yet, try be a marine commander, see how the gameplay goes and you'll see the game isn't clunky or difficult at all. It all makes sense, you'll start to understand your role as marine soldier. The game is complex, yeah. It's not in a frustrating way, but in a very enjoyable way. the only thing you have to do is a put a bit of understanding in how the game works.
If only arrogance was money you would be able to provide UWE's bread and be the arbiter of their design. As it is they have to cater to the market, and the market consists mostly of people who play video games to relax and have fun rather than prove their superiority over their fellow human beings in the oh so valuable realm of killing imaginary aliens.
@OP
You will find little but hate here with a post like this as this game attracts more than its fair share of the arrogant elitists. Still, I would advise you not to give up yet but rather practise playing marines. Stay at the back of the pack and shoot the skulks off the leaders (the buggers are a lot easier to hit when not in your face). As they say practise makes perfect, but then again one should hardly have to practise to gain enjoyment from what is ostensibly designed to entertain. God knows no one expects you do do a few practise runs of a movie before you can savour it.
@OP
You will find little but hate here with a post like this as this game attracts more than its fair share of the arrogant elitists. Still, I would advise you not to give up yet but rather practise playing marines. Stay at the back of the pack and shoot the skulks off the leaders (the buggers are a lot easier to hit when not in your face). As they say practise makes perfect, but then again one should hardly have to practise to gain enjoyment from what is ostensibly designed to entertain. God knows no one expects you do do a few practise runs of a movie before you can savour it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, that tends to happen when you hop into later betas... the oldies dont like it when you criticize their baby.
but a few more points then im gone, promise.
1: i completely understand the mechanics. i didnt play just one game then come here and rage. im just about 100 matches in. the mechanics are understood. again the problem is twitching. the game has been described as a tactical rts/fps hybrid. but this is really only for the 2 comms. it should be labeled Competitive FPS with RTS elements. because that is what it is.
2: no, im done practicing. if a game requires me to put in tons of time, "before it gets good" (see: diablo) then its not for me. i have a job, bills, and kids to worry about.
3: when i say ranking im not talking about CoD ranking which is just XP, im talking about matchmaking.
but im done after reading what people left on this thread. this community isnt for me either.
it seems people get ornery when you point our that they are adding useless difficulty that adds nothing to the game but make it harder for everyone so they can level up their e-peen, with their leet skills.
i joined this game for tactical shooter scifi game play. i got twitchy scifi skin of CS
FYI: i like how people see a person complain then immediately assume they have never played any game before, ever.
EDIT: wow, after through more of the forums... yeah this community is really bad. you dont have to worry. i wont point out the flaws in the BETA of your game. have fun.
<!--quoteo(post=1944257:date=Jun 17 2012, 11:57 PM:name=1dominator1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1dominator1 @ Jun 17 2012, 11:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944257"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As they say practise makes perfect, but then again one should hardly have to practise to gain enjoyment from what is ostensibly designed to entertain. God knows no one expects you do do a few practise runs of a movie before you can savour it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It sounds like you're looking for a single player game. Multiplayer games are more like sports or chess, not movie like experiences. If you play chess against someone better than you then expect to get beaten. Sure you can still play them casually and have a bit of fun - I play pool casually but if I played against anyone who practised they would own me. You can't expect the game to remove all depth just so it can cater to players who don't practice. Your best option is to try and play against players of a similar skill level. There is talk of them introducing matchmaking and once 1.0 comes out I'm sure there will be many more players that just want to play for fun.
Also, the game has many problems right now. Performance and reg is bad so even if you do aim correctly who knows if it will even hit. There are also many balance problems with certain things being over and underpowered and it'll probably be like that for quite a while.
Hopefully this kind of thinking can persuade you to not give up on the game at this stage.
I played alot of cs and i play alot of tf2 and i know i can aim, but when i jump in ns2 i feel like a fish out of water :/, the mechanics are definitely different, Im convinced practice is not the issue, but merely adjusting my style of play to suit the mechanics is what i focus on doing.
<!--quoteo(post=1944120:date=Jun 17 2012, 05:13 PM:name=Luigi7891)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Luigi7891 @ Jun 17 2012, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944120"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->its just hard to even aim (either side)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1944120:date=Jun 17 2012, 05:13 PM:name=Luigi7891)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Luigi7891 @ Jun 17 2012, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1944120"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>and am not an unskilled player</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
k
<a href="http://www.brick-force.com/en" target="_blank">http://www.brick-force.com/en</a>
I was looking forward that you maybe would start to give any real aguments or proper feedback at some point... guess we will never know the flaws now :(
90% of the people who buy ns2 will be casual players, like myself, who play for fun and will have no desire to join a clan and play competitively. I stopped playing NS1, not so much because I stopped enjoying the game but because the servers were dominated by a handful of elitist idiots barking orders every few seconds.
Easy to learn but hard to master should be the devs mantra. The last 20 builds have moved away from strategy or depth and more towards a style of twitch shooting that we have more than enough of already. I love the game but fear in what direction it seems to be heading.
As for the actual shooting and stuff - I'd argue that it's simpler/easier than Counterstrike, which I find is the perfect skill level for an FPS game, due to the fact that only 1 team has guns and there's no instant-kill headshots from across the map. If the framerate issues ever get fixes, I think it'll be fine.
90% of the people who buy ns2 will be casual players, like myself, who play for fun and will have no desire to join a clan and play competitively. I stopped playing NS1, not so much because I stopped enjoying the game but because the servers were dominated by a handful of elitist idiots barking orders every few seconds.
Easy to learn but hard to master should be the devs mantra. The last 20 builds have moved away from strategy or depth and more towards a style of twitch shooting that we have more than enough of already. I love the game but fear in what direction it seems to be heading.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he wouldn't have been happy with the game anyway. He's probably looking for something like Colonial Marines, which doesn't look too hard. like a shoot-em-up. Or a single player campaign RTS. at low skill levels aliens dominate marines anyway since marines can't aim = dead marines. if he didn't want to put work into practicing aim, then he would never evolve past this point and his view of the game would never change. it's like if someone jumped into counterstrike, ran into a skilled player and complained that the game was too hard because he got headshotted as soon as he went around a corner. um, ok pal. the game already has built in wallhack, what more do you want? if you can't track skulks it's not the game's fault. if you run in straight lines at a marine and get shot up, it's not the game that's making it hard for you.
90% of the people who buy ns2 will be casual players, like myself, who play for fun and will have no desire to join a clan and play competitively. I stopped playing NS1, not so much because I stopped enjoying the game but because the servers were dominated by a handful of elitist idiots barking orders every few seconds.
Easy to learn but hard to master should be the devs mantra. The last 20 builds have moved away from strategy or depth and more towards a style of twitch shooting that we have more than enough of already. I love the game but fear in what direction it seems to be heading.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly I think the OP has come across much more aggressive than the community in this thread. A couple of troll posts, but the majority of people seem to have simply stated facts about the current nature of the game.
I do regret that NS seems to be very hard for newcommers. Hopefully UWE can introduce matchmaking or some sort of filtering based on experience - keep the casuals with the casuals, elites with the elites, and make everyone enjoy themselves more for it.
However its just the nature of online gaming, especially shooters that are being pushed for esports, to be very hard and competitive. Thats why (sadly) they tend to be dominated with kids from ages 14-21, since they have alot of free time to invest.