210 this week?
Drummer
Join Date: 2004-02-18 Member: 26654Members
Join Date: 2004-02-18 Member: 26654Members
<div class="IPBDescription">*wrings hands with excitement*</div>not rushing you guys at all, and of course you had e3 last week, but will 210 be going out this week? was hoping to see it before i go into work tomorrow, but thats prolly too quick. just heard about the new video options in the Q&A and im wondering when we were gonna be able to see it.
what else is going into 210 besides shotgun and lerk fixes ive heard about?
what else is going into 210 besides shotgun and lerk fixes ive heard about?
Comments
--Cory
what, seriously??
Ummm... I want my energy please....
+1
this could, in theory, be fixed without dumping energy completely, but i agree with the move for simplification & having spammable items use the same resource pool as team structures.
will have to see if the bumped resource rate ends up leaving teams awash in tres too often. but that can be tweaked as well.
If the costs are adjusted accordingly, it should not be a problem.
Been waiting so long for energy to get removed. Good times are coming.
also, what about beacons and scans? are they going to be tres too?
if they're pres, you are never going to have enough res to do anything with, unless maybe the comm gets more res bleeding through than the rest of the team?
+1, good things finally coming down the pipe, good times are to be had.
Everything that was energy is now tres.
also, what about beacons and scans? are they going to be tres too?
if they're pres, you are never going to have enough res to do anything with, unless maybe the comm gets more res bleeding through than the rest of the team?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wasn't a problem in NS1, which didn't even have the tres/pres distinction. No reason to believe it will be a problem now.
I think your crystal ball might be broken.
This will greatly impact alien expansion then as I assume this means cycsts will cost t-res.
Cysts which are imperative to being able to build anything else costing T-res is going to mean aliens are going to struggle to expand.
Med packs and ammo I see as fair enough to make cost res (as it helps an individual) and it is not imperative to expanding.
To be fair to both sides if this is the intent the marine comm should have to expand out his Nano grid in order to expand.
Otherwise we are simply gimping the aliens early game expansion/options (which is their only path normally to victory as longer games generally go marines way).
Cysts are not exactly tough to take down and if unconnected larger patches die off (perhaps wasting 15-20 cysts..or maybe double that in res).
If a khamm is low on res this would be a knockout blow that the marines could easily push for early in game (simply camp the room outside of alien spawn killing cysts and crippling the alien tech).
I can only say I hope that cysts are not included in this or that aliens are now able to build off infestation otherwise we have sent the aliens into a gunfight with knives.
Otherwise we will need to have a power socket/repair costing 10-15 T-res to balance the expansion costs for both sides (which with the alien being energy based previously was not an issue).
We cant have the marines able to expand where ever they want with no costs beyond structures and the other side only able to build on areas of infestation which for say vent from data would cost be about 7-10 cysts (assuming 1 res min per cys as to not have decimal res) this is a very costly expansion.
It will cost a bucket load of res to cover a map (~200+) with cysts which is needed particularly late in game when the marines have been whittled into their spawn.
That must not be the case. It could also come for free with a cooldown or a local energy-pool that isn't shared with other abilitys.
I say instead of theorycrafting lets just wait and see how everything will be implemented.
because they should do that in the next build
If a khamm is low on res this would be a knockout blow that the marines could easily push for early in game (simply camp the room outside of alien spawn killing cysts and crippling the alien tech).
I can only say I hope that cysts are not included in this or that aliens are now able to build off infestation otherwise we have sent the aliens into a gunfight with knives.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry but you're so wrong. Even with one hive you're able to spam cysts faster than a marine or two can destroy them.
Cysts are pointless and should just be removed, though. Make alien structures require drifters like they used to, but let them be droppable anywhere. DI can then grow automatically between the structure and the nearest hive.
Would help a lot with performance too, as cysts are one of the main culprits behind poor late game server/client performance.
Would help a lot with performance too, as cysts are one of the main culprits behind poor late game server/client performance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe, maybe not. I don't think cysts have any chance of being removed this late in development and this is the best alternative. I think cysts can perform a very useful tres sink and tertiary target for marines. Of course balance needs to be achieved with them. The cost needs to be large enough so they are not spammable, but not so much that cysts become primary targets.
Would help a lot with performance too, as cysts are one of the main culprits behind poor late game server/client performance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no inherent reason for Cysts to cause bad performance, they're a static structure. I'm sure that they won't be a problem by 1.0.
Could it be the algorithm that calculates cyst connectivity all the time? Nevertheless it has been obvious for a long time that Cyst spam causes huge performance dips. I am not sure if it is still the case in the latest builds. Whatever it is i'm sure the code can be optimized instead of removing the cysts. Removing cysts because of gameplay is totally another discussion though.
Aliens don't need tres sinks simply for the sake of being tres sinks. You can achieve the same goal by decreasing the rate of tres production from harvesters. Marines certainly don't need "tertiary targets". Attacking static objects is one of the most boring tasks in this game and when you combine that with the relatively poor return from killing a cyst, it really becomes a chore.
One of the biggest problems in NS2 design right now, at least the way I see it, is the lack of KISS.
<!--quoteo(post=1943055:date=Jun 13 2012, 12:13 PM:name=Arkanti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arkanti @ Jun 13 2012, 12:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943055"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's no inherent reason for Cysts to cause bad performance, they're a static structure. I'm sure that they won't be a problem by 1.0.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no inherent reason why a game with NS2's level of graphics should require a 4.7GHz CPU to even get a stable 30 fps during late game, yet it still does. I don't share your (blind) optimism with regards to performance improvements.
One of the biggest problems in NS2 design right now, at least the way I see it, is the lack of KISS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cysts are pretty simple. Regardless of whether they are good or not, we've got cysts and this is probably the best way to make them helpful to gameplay (or the least harmful for people who don't like cysts).
The best way to create open, enjoyable gameplay is to cut everything to the bone. As counter-intuitive as that may seem, less really is more in this case.
Would help a lot with performance too, as cysts are one of the main culprits behind poor late game server/client performance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that Cyst currently add more visual effects to than game play value. It puts restrictions on alien play eg: you can't drop a forward shade anywhere. Less room for aggressive and creative play.
Whether there are ways to improve on that is another story.
<!--quoteo(post=1943058:date=Jun 13 2012, 07:34 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jun 13 2012, 07:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943058"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aliens don't need tres sinks simply for the sake of being tres sinks. You can achieve the same goal by decreasing the rate of tres production from harvesters. Marines certainly don't need "tertiary targets". Attacking static objects is one of the most boring tasks in this game and when you combine that with the relatively poor return from killing a cyst, it really becomes a chore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also agree that killing cysts feels like a chore, having to kill each and every single cyst on the way gets old very quick. However this might be fixed if braking the cyst chain would be more effective.
I also agree with: ,,Aliens don't need tres sinks simply for the sake of being tres sinks." This fits both teams and both resources types.
I understand the performance concerns, and while it might be boring to kill them, it's just one of those jobs, that needs to be done for the team. Building structures is also boring, same is welding. However with all of these, it's quite clear that if noone does it, you will most likely lose in the end.
I'm up for changing and modifying the idea, but I feel it's a good concept at the core. I still think we should atleast play a few rounds of 210 before we start changing the new cysts :)
How am I wrong in saying that making cysts cost t-res will cripple aliens?
How does cyst not having a cost actually impact the balance of the game?
For aliens to build they need cysts to get them there, as such there has to be a level of spamabilitiy in cysts as otherwise it will cost 15 res to get to a res tower just to be able to build it.
This has the potential to cripple any alien advance.
With the marine comm able to ping the entire map he can send his marines to take out cysts in particular areas and prevent the aliens expanding to get res towers or any map control at all.
Mean while he could have 1 marine off building and locking down the rest of the map, aliens wont be able to lock down or try to hold the marines out of parts of the map as they will be too busy trying to keep cysts alive to save res.
A cyst is a lot weaker than a Res tower, take out a cyst with 4 swipes of your axe...cut off connection...res tower will die over time.
Any attempt to reconnect will cost more res and make any upgrades such as Leap, blink, stomp etc harder for the aliens to get.