Lerk bite FAR to powerful
Alchemda
Join Date: 2004-02-01 Member: 25942Members
Join Date: 2004-02-01 Member: 25942Members
So with the inclusion with Lerk bite, you've made the lerk OP... It can shoot from afar, fly away, zig zag to make it hard to hit, make it hard to see, make you have DOT in spores, AND now can bite you.
The lerk is now in the action too much. After about 5 games, the lerks just fly up to you bite you twice and you die. Congrats you now have a flying skulk. Every lerk I saw didnt bother flying around, or crop dusting, or shooting, they now fly to you, bite you twice, you die, and they fly to next one.
There needs to be some trade off, they are far too hard to hit, to much escape potential, and do far too much damage now. What is their counter? There needs to be a trade off for getting up close and personal, right now it doesn't seem to be so.
Lerk bite death is too sudden. The way the notes made it sound, you get a DOT poison. They may bite you for a miniscule amount of health, but over 10 seconds you may tick down 10 health per second. The poison effect doesn't even happen, the initial bite is just too strong.
I know this is the first revision, but if you are dead set on adding this in, it needs to have a trade off, not be the primary weapon or if it is, they trade something, and make it not hit as hard initially and make it more of a DOT.
The lerk is now in the action too much. After about 5 games, the lerks just fly up to you bite you twice and you die. Congrats you now have a flying skulk. Every lerk I saw didnt bother flying around, or crop dusting, or shooting, they now fly to you, bite you twice, you die, and they fly to next one.
There needs to be some trade off, they are far too hard to hit, to much escape potential, and do far too much damage now. What is their counter? There needs to be a trade off for getting up close and personal, right now it doesn't seem to be so.
Lerk bite death is too sudden. The way the notes made it sound, you get a DOT poison. They may bite you for a miniscule amount of health, but over 10 seconds you may tick down 10 health per second. The poison effect doesn't even happen, the initial bite is just too strong.
I know this is the first revision, but if you are dead set on adding this in, it needs to have a trade off, not be the primary weapon or if it is, they trade something, and make it not hit as hard initially and make it more of a DOT.
Comments
You mean like having to fly straight into a shotgun and get a point-blank blast to your face?
You mean having to shoot that lerk three times at point blank range and it still flying away? It can kill you before that you know.
exactly... if they are going to do that, they need to have to be careful and do it discreetely. As it stands, they take far too much damage, and have too much escape for such a in your face ability.
QFT
and what if marines could get a phosphorus pellet upgrade for their shotguns? so like the flamethrower it would dot as well..
I would say even lower. Biting someone repeatably should be discouraged unless they are on their last legs.
The poison is already so powerful that bite damage itself should be very low.
kLerkBiteDamage = 50
kBitePoisonDamage = 4 // per second
kLerkBiteEnergyCost = 5
kLerkBiteDamageType = kDamageType.Light
# Skulk Damage - Also consider the damage ratio between Skulk + Lerk
kBiteDamage = 75
kBiteDamageType = kDamageType.Normal
Lerk does 4 poison damage every second until you are on 5hp, medpacks will stop the poison.
The Lerks primary attack is no longer ranged, meaning the Lerk has to get up close and be exposed for longer periods of time which makes it all the more vulnerable. With Lerk costing 30pres I would not expect a marine we little upgrades to win in a battle, which brings us to another issue the shotgun. The shotguns cone of fire has changed to give off more spread, this is currently being looked into and will be addressed.
I still believe the current HP/A ratio is fine and that the fault is with the shotgun at the moment and possibly some players performance.
Previous HP:
125 / 30
Cara 125 / 60
Now:
125 / 50
Cara 125 / 80
Another factor might be to consider is the amount of starting res, which allows players to go Lerk within 1-2 minutes of the game.
What may help commanders notice "Hey this person is lerk poisoned" is put a Dripping green poison above their head in commander view? Rather than.. need medpack.. need medpack.. need medpack..
To my mind this would bring the Lerk back to its status as a creature which denies the progress of the marines, rather than a front line troop. I think in a few days we will be seeing some excellent users of the 209 Lerk, turning it into the next Blink/Stab...
To my mind this would bring the Lerk back to its status as a creature which denies the progress of the marines, rather than a front line troop. I think in a few days we will be seeing some excellent users of the 209 Lerk, turning it into the next Blink/Stab...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup
We do, however, appreciate the feedback from these changes.
Personally, I don't understand why Lerk bite was brought back instead of properly implementing burst-fire (!) or shotgun spikes.
I would like to see a small energy cost added for flapping however to promote better play.
When the exo comes out, I don't see the lerk being very useful anymore in the end game. Spikes and bite both are poor against high armor. You don't want to risk 30 res to go bite an exo marine a single time.
The only problem is the DOT. Which is quite silly for a melee attack. Especially since the DOT cant kill you.
You put your life on the line every time you go for a single bite.
With the DOT, the lerk seems to be supposed to bite marines once, get out, get back in for the kill.
If the marine gets a medpack, you put your life on the life for nothing. And as we all know, medpacks are FREE, atm.
Starting off with 2 melee abilities makes the lerk very weak, and unable to compete against decent marines.
The lerk have lost it's harassing/support role in early game(spikes/ranged spores).
I see two solutions to this:
1. remove the DOT from bite and make lerk spores ranged(projectile).
2. remove bite completely and make spikes primary weapon, and re-add shotgun spikes for burst damage(2nd tier ability)
I like the first solution the most.
Another possible solution could be to add an energy cost on flapping again.
^Agreed.
TL/dR
Skulk spends 30 res on Red Bull and turns into a Lerk. I dun like it much.. I think it boils down to is Lerk gonna be a
1) DOT based attacker
2) flying skulk
1. Initial bite dmg is too much, and the poison is overshadowed by skulk-like lerks going in and getting off multiple attack. Make the base damage something stupid low (around 20 damage)
2. The fact that no matter what poison will bring you to 5 hp is a pain in the ass. It should be a static DOT (does say 60-80 damage), that WILL KILL the marine if he does not go back. But if he gets bit once at full health, he can still run around with some left (~20-40 health)
This would make it so we don't have "flying skulks" and make lerks a differnt playstyle (closer to what I think the developers envisioned). HP/Armor does seem a bit too high, but I think that would have to be adjusted after these changes.
-Just some suggestions. Your opinions?
IIRC, the strategy in NS1 was to gas /umbra as you flew in, then make the kill with bite. In NS2, though, it seems like you need to be close to bite, close to gas, close to do anything. Isn't lerk supposed to be ranged support?