I liked both the original NS2 music AND the NS1 music. If I had to pick just one, though, I'd absolutely LOVE to see the NS1 music return. It was a huge jump in quality for the mod scene, and it sounds completely different from most FPS/horror music (in a very good way).
Hell, look up the composer for the original NS1, Jeremy Soule. He's only done the 3 most recent Elder Scrolls games as well as both Guild Wars and a ######-ton of other great scores.
<!--quoteo(post=1939065:date=May 26 2012, 08:25 AM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ May 26 2012, 08:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I liked both the original NS2 music AND the NS1 music. If I had to pick just one, though, I'd absolutely LOVE to see the NS1 music return. It was a huge jump in quality for the mod scene, and it sounds completely different from most FPS/horror music (in a very good way).
Hell, look up the composer for the original NS1, Jeremy Soule. He's only done the 3 most recent Elder Scrolls games as well as both Guild Wars and a ######-ton of other great scores.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jeremy Soule did that? So why would you NOT use it?! THIS MAKES NO SENSE!!!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only in that the NS1 music started off with a short percussion piece. Otherwise, quite entirely different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both start as militaristic sci-fi themes and then trail off into music that is reflective of the alien threat.
Compare that with the old NS2 music, which was just flat ambience, it was more like placeholder music than a proper NS2 theme.
That's why the new NS2 music is far better than the old NS2 music, and more like the original NS1 music.
<!--quoteo(post=1938998:date=May 25 2012, 07:44 PM:name=Master Blaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Blaster @ May 25 2012, 07:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1938998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you go with the original NS1 music -- I believe it is more adult, mature, and makes the game look professional and serious. In contrast, if you choose to go with the Propellerheads song like "Not Flayra" suggests, it will seem childish or more like an arcade game. I like the Proppelerheads song, but it's not something for a game like this at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's nothing immature or unprofessional about the NS2 theme music. It has more gravity, emotional highs, and musical sophistication. It's a superior as a musical piece.
You are making the erronous assumption that "more dark and brooding = more mature". That's not the case. Both themes are meant to evoke different things.
The first one has a more ominious and dark feel, both for the starting marine theme and the transition of something that is reminiscent of the alien threat they face. It works but it's not the only way to go about it.
The second one evokes the determination of the frontiersmen, the confrontration and contention they face, the lurking threats as they expand, and a frontiersman spirit that leads them to victory.
<!--quoteo(post=1939075:date=May 26 2012, 10:16 AM:name=Rise)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rise @ May 26 2012, 10:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Both start as militaristic sci-fi themes and then trail off into music that is reflective of the alien threat.
Compare that with the old NS2 music, which was just flat ambience, it was more like placeholder music than a proper NS2 theme.
That's why the new NS2 music is far better than the old NS2 music, and more like the original NS1 music.
There's nothing immature or unprofessional about the NS2 theme music. It has more gravity, emotional highs, and musical sophistication. It's a superior as a musical piece.
You are making the erronous assumption that "more dark and brooding = more mature". That's not the case. Both themes are meant to evoke different things.
The first one has a more ominious and dark feel, both for the starting marine theme and the transition of something that is reminiscent of the alien threat they face. It works but it's not the only way to go about it.
The second one evokes the determination of the frontiersmen, the confrontration and contention they face, the lurking threats as they expand, and a frontiersman spirit that leads them to victory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, who said anything about the music being "Dark and brooding???" You're making things up then arguing points for the made up issue.<u><b> This is called a Strawman Argument.</b></u>
If Jeremy Soule did the NS1 music, thats reason enough for it to be superior. Enough Said. That man does the Elder Scrolls. Period. If you cannot appreciate that then I feel sorry for you because it is the best music in gaming today.
THe current NS2 music feels like canned game music. It belongs in TF2 or some cheesy game like that, not in NS2.
Stop making things up.
And if you look at this thread, it is pretty clear the majority of people agree that the NS1 music and ambient sound is ***** awesome.
It's not a strawman arguement, but merely an understanding of what you were trying to say. I'm pretty sure I've accurately pinpointed why you subjectively consider the NS1 theme "more mature". And if I haven't, you should try to explain what other reason there could be.
<!--quoteo(post=1939082:date=May 26 2012, 10:41 AM:name=Rise)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rise @ May 26 2012, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not a strawman arguement, but merely an understanding of what you were trying to say. I'm pretty sure I've accurately pinpointed why you subjectively consider the NS1 theme "more mature". And if I haven't, you should try to explain what other reason there could be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason it is better is simply because it IS better. I don't have to write you an essay explaining every single note in the music. It's THAT obvious. It's not something subtle here. You might as well ask me to explain why Hitler was a bad person. That, and I don't really feel the need to explain further because I can see the majority of people agree that the current music and sound is not nearly as good as NS1. Not just from this thread, but from what people say in the game while playing.
If you want a very good way of putting it: The current music is canned cheese. THe previous music could have been used in a professional film.
<b>The NS1 music was worthy of the Alien film series, while the current NS2 music is worthy of Uwe Boll.</b>
UWE gets to make the decisions but I really don't see how they can throw away something from Jeremy Soule for this.
People do actually continue playing videogames because of the pleasant music, whether you want to admit it or not. And by pleasant I do not mean abrasive, loud, and fast music. This is a psychological phenomenon. It operates on the conscious and subconscious levels and is well documented in biological, psychological, and philosophical literature. If music creates a peace of mind, people will be drawn to its source. And this is not as subjective as some of you will likely claim. Just as music can bring you a level of calm serenity, it can also put your whole mind out of place and you may not even be aware of it. But the end result is that people play the game less, and have an aversion towards the game rather than a desire to play it for extended periods. Anyone entering the business of entertainment would be a fool to ignore this.
Repeating your opinion multiple times doesn't help advance your argument. And claiming you don't even need to justify your statement doesn't help you either.
I'd expect someoe who studied music for 18 years to be able to express why a musical piece is superior to another.
<!--quoteo(post=1939075:date=May 26 2012, 10:16 AM:name=Rise)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rise @ May 26 2012, 10:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's nothing immature or unprofessional about the NS2 theme music. <b>It has more gravity, emotional highs, and musical sophistication. It's a superior as a musical piece.</b>
You are making the erronous assumption that "more dark and brooding = more mature". That's not the case. Both themes are meant to evoke different things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, but there is nothing that makes the new song "superior" in any way - maybe if you want to download it as an MP3 and listen to it, but not as something that conveys the theme of a game. And that's not the purpose of adding music to your game.
In fact this is something I am really fed up with. Companies keep making music that sounds like they are trying to make a movie, or making a musical piece because they want something "epic" , instead of having music that complements the atmosphere in a game. It's pointless to have some largely orchestral song or something that you think sounds awesome because that's just poor design. Again, look at Diablo 1.
The music is a large reason the game is so absorbing and it's very easy to go back to and play. That, along with the art style and sound, pulls you in. Something like the current theme for NS might be cool at first but its novelty will wear off because there isn't any substance or real reason behind it. In fact, it sounds very similar to many other game's music. And yes, sometimes darker does = more mature because it takes a better understanding of musical composition to appreciate what it takes to make music like that that actually goes along with the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1939086:date=May 26 2012, 09:51 AM:name=Bloodshot12)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bloodshot12 @ May 26 2012, 09:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sorry, but there is nothing that makes the new song "superior" in any way - maybe if you want to download it as an MP3 and listen to it, but not as something that conveys the theme of a game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a valid point to argue, as to what the style of the game is and how the music should convey that.
As music I like the NS2 theme better.
As a theme it does work, but it works in a different way, a way I personally like more. But then that's subjective taste.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And yes, sometimes darker does = more mature because it takes a better understanding of musical composition to appreciate what it takes to make music like that that actually goes along with the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Darker in itself is never more or less inherently mature, it's just a style that either fits or doesn't fit with what it is paired to.
A lot of people in film and such make the mistake of equating darkness with maturity, because for a lot of people things get darker, more cynical and jaded, as they mature. That is not always true. In a lot of ways I actually see darkness as less mature, because it takes a lot more maturity to be hopeful and optimistic it the face of life's darkness than it is to just give in to that darkness and accept it.
<!--quoteo(post=1939085:date=May 26 2012, 10:50 AM:name=Rise)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rise @ May 26 2012, 10:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Repeating your opinion multiple times doesn't help advance your argument. And claiming you don't even need to justify your statement doesn't help you either.
I'd expect someoe who studied music for 18 years to be able to express why a musical piece is superior to another.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually kind of DID explain why it is superior even though you chose to only read the part where I said that I do not need to do so.
Read the last paragraph of that post:
People do actually continue playing videogames because of the pleasant music, whether you want to admit it or not. And by pleasant I do not mean abrasive, loud, and fast music. This is a psychological phenomenon. It operates on the conscious and subconscious levels and is well documented in biological, psychological, and philosophical literature. If music creates a peace of mind, people will be drawn to its source. And this is not as subjective as some of you will likely claim. Just as music can bring you a level of calm serenity, it can also put your whole mind out of place and you may not even be aware of it. But the end result is that people play the game less, and have an aversion towards the game rather than a desire to play it for extended periods. Anyone entering the business of entertainment would be a fool to ignore this.
Again, UWE gets to make the decisions but I really don't see how they can throw away something from Jeremy Soule for this new stuff.
/good game
//And one more thing<b>, this impact of ambient music and sound on biological and psychological processes is NOT an opinion</b>. If UWE asks for academic literature explaining this, I will gladly provide it, but I will not go pulling up academic sources for random people on the internet.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--quoteo(post=1939075:date=May 26 2012, 11:16 AM:name=Rise)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rise @ May 26 2012, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The first one has a more ominious and dark feel, both for the starting marine theme and the transition of something that is reminiscent of the alien threat they face. It works but it's not the only way to go about it.
The second one evokes the determination of the frontiersmen, the confrontration and contention they face, the lurking threats as they expand, and a frontiersman spirit that leads them to victory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Er... only problem is, the theme music needs to work for both teams. It's not Alien Shooter Bob.. er, Frank after all. That's why the original NS1 music was better... it set the tone of the overall game from the jump.
Also, that's why I said to close your eyes and imagine that it was BF3/CoD/GoW/GBS17. It's a flat martial theme aimed more at evoking 'war' than 'war with another species', and would not be out of place in ANY generic shooter, rather than a piece purely aimed toward anything even slightly sci-fi geared. I'm not saying to bust out the theramins, just that it's generic and bland 'shooter game music' which is instantly forgettable... not something that a MAIN THEME should be.
<!--quoteo(post=1939102:date=May 26 2012, 12:00 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ May 26 2012, 12:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Er... only problem is, the theme music needs to work for both teams. It's not Alien Shooter Bob.. er, Frank after all. That's why the original NS1 music was better... it set the tone of the overall game from the jump.
Also, that's why I said to close your eyes and imagine that it was BF3/CoD/GoW/GBS17. It's a flat martial theme aimed more at evoking 'war' than 'war with another species', and would not be out of place in ANY generic shooter, rather than a piece purely aimed toward anything even slightly sci-fi geared. I'm not saying to bust out the theramins, just that it's generic and bland 'shooter game music' which is instantly forgettable... not something that a MAIN THEME should be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1939086:date=May 26 2012, 10:51 AM:name=Bloodshot12)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bloodshot12 @ May 26 2012, 10:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sorry, but there is nothing that makes the new song "superior" in any way - maybe if you want to download it as an MP3 and listen to it, but not as something that conveys the theme of a game. And that's not the purpose of adding music to your game.
In fact this is something I am really fed up with. Companies keep making music that sounds like they are trying to make a movie, or making a musical piece because they want something "epic" , instead of having music that complements the atmosphere in a game. It's pointless to have some largely orchestral song or something that you think sounds awesome because that's just poor design. Again, look at Diablo 1.
The music is a large reason the game is so absorbing and it's very easy to go back to and play. That, along with the art style and sound, pulls you in. Something like the current theme for NS might be cool at first but its novelty will wear off because there isn't any substance or real reason behind it. In fact, it sounds very similar to many other game's music. And yes, sometimes darker does = more mature because it takes a better understanding of musical composition to appreciate what it takes to make music like that that actually goes along with the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose it might be outright illegal to use Soule's music now that they're making a commercial game rather than a free-to-play mod? They even have to get people who submit code to sign waivers or whatsit saying UWE can use their stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1939105:date=May 26 2012, 12:09 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 26 2012, 12:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I suppose it might be outright illegal to use Soule's music now that they're making a commercial game rather than a free-to-play mod? They even have to get people who submit code to sign waivers or whatsit saying UWE can use their stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's a legal issue over Jeremy Soule's music, then there is a simple solution which is to come up with music and ambient sound that is VERY similar to that of NS1 rather than produce whatever this generic, canned music is. The sound direction should refer to NS1, not arbitrarily go somewhere else for no good reason when the first game was superb in this area.
Not FlayraJoin Date: 2012-05-18Member: 152282Members
edited May 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1939105:date=May 26 2012, 01:09 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 26 2012, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I suppose it might be outright illegal to use Soule's music now that they're making a commercial game rather than a free-to-play mod? They even have to get people who submit code to sign waivers or whatsit saying UWE can use their stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Er, I'm pretty sure w- ...<i>they</i> paid Jeremy to write that for NS1 as a work-for-hire, rather than using any kind of non-commercial license on an existing piece of music. Written/designed for/paid for by/belongs to UWE.
1. The theme music for NS1 didn't fit the theme any better than the current NS2 theme. Yes, I like Jeremy Soule as a composer, but his militaristic take on the main theme, while well-written, didn't really convey the "horror" that the aliens presented or the sci-fi background of the marines any better than what we have now.
2. There were two pre-200 themes, if I remember correctly. I prefer both compared to the current theme (which, while also well-written, sounds too generic for such an atmospheric game), but if I had to choose one I'd have to go with the one that plays over the opening of current NS2 update videos. The other, while still sounding fairly cool, was probably a little too "ambient" to make a good theme for the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1939137:date=May 26 2012, 02:01 PM:name=Insurance Salesman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insurance Salesman @ May 26 2012, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939137"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just adding my two cents on this topic:
1. The theme music for NS1 didn't fit the theme any better than the current NS2 theme. Yes, I like Jeremy Soule as a composer, but his militaristic take on the main theme, while well-written, didn't really convey the "horror" that the aliens presented or the sci-fi background of the marines any better than what we have now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're incorrect. NS isn't really a horror game anyway. It is science fiction.
If you want to compare it with a true horror game, there is Dead Space. That is actually scary. A purple ape/rhinoceros hybrid that wheezes is not horrifying.
The NS1 theme was perfect for the space and sci-fi theme. It was similar to but distinct from the menu music for Mass Effect 1, and the sounds in that particular game were quite good as well.
Also there was nothing "militaristic" about the ns1 music. It was the definition of PERFECT ambience.
Again, when you have a big name professional composer making music for a game, and the majority of the community who have played NS1 agrees it is better, why would you throw it out for your major game which you plan on selling? Sure, go ahead and try out new music and sound designs. But NS1 is still the best so far. People who have never heard of Natural Selection HAVE heard of Jeremy Soule. And even if he hadn't written the music and ambient sound for NS1, it is still ******* great.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited May 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1939143:date=May 26 2012, 03:26 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ May 26 2012, 03:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939143"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Posts: 1 Joined: Today, 04:53 PM<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Your point? People will sign up on occasion to comment on a specific topic when they had not had any impetus to do so before. Posts like this serve no purpose, and normally would be deleted without comment.
<!--quoteo(post=1939137:date=May 26 2012, 10:01 PM:name=Insurance Salesman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Insurance Salesman @ May 26 2012, 10:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939137"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. The theme music for NS1 didn't fit the theme any better than the current NS2 theme. Yes, I like Jeremy Soule as a composer, but his militaristic take on the main theme, while well-written, didn't really convey the "horror" that the aliens presented or the sci-fi background of the marines any better than what we have now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What about the other track he made? <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hgi_ciYRpDM"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hgi_ciYRpDM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<!--quoteo(post=1939146:date=May 26 2012, 05:44 PM:name=Talesin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Talesin @ May 26 2012, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939146"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your point? People will sign up on occasion to comment on a specific topic when they had not had any impetus to do so before. Posts like this serve no purpose, and normally would be deleted without comment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just find it disappointing when someone is so passionate about a specific topic that they show up and just add to the noise by saying a bunch of things you can't really argue ("x doesn't convey horror"). Most good forums encourage people to not post immediately after registering, because otherwise you get a lot of people who show up on page 2 of a thread and "offer their two cents" without responding to any other posts, like it's their blog.
<!--quoteo(post=1939088:date=May 26 2012, 10:00 AM:name=Master Blaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Blaster @ May 26 2012, 10:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939088"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I actually kind of DID explain why it is superior even though you chose to only read the part where I said that I do not need to do so.
Read the last paragraph of that post:
People do actually continue playing videogames because of the pleasant music, whether you want to admit it or not. And by pleasant I do not mean abrasive, loud, and fast music. This is a psychological phenomenon. It operates on the conscious and subconscious levels and is well documented in biological, psychological, and philosophical literature. If music creates a peace of mind, people will be drawn to its source. And this is not as subjective as some of you will likely claim. Just as music can bring you a level of calm serenity, it can also put your whole mind out of place and you may not even be aware of it. But the end result is that people play the game less, and have an aversion towards the game rather than a desire to play it for extended periods. Anyone entering the business of entertainment would be a fool to ignore this.
Again, UWE gets to make the decisions but I really don't see how they can throw away something from Jeremy Soule for this new stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All you're doing is talking about the necessity of music to creating an atmosphere, without ever actually explaining why the NS2 menu music fails at that compared with the NS1 theme.
So who did NOT set music to 0 in NS1 upon a fresh install anyway? All of this seems trivial, the only thing that remains relevant (past the first week of v1.0 release) are the ambient sound-effects.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1939161:date=May 26 2012, 03:50 PM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ May 26 2012, 03:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1939161"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So who did NOT set music to 0 in NS1 upon a fresh install anyway? All of this seems trivial, the only thing that remains relevant (past the first week of v1.0 release) are the ambient sound-effects.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I often forget that NS1/2 has menu music because I've set both volumes to zero. However, if people want it, I bet it wouldn't be too difficult for someone in the community to mod it into NS2.
Comments
Hell, look up the composer for the original NS1, Jeremy Soule. He's only done the 3 most recent Elder Scrolls games as well as both Guild Wars and a ######-ton of other great scores.
Hell, look up the composer for the original NS1, Jeremy Soule. He's only done the 3 most recent Elder Scrolls games as well as both Guild Wars and a ######-ton of other great scores.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jeremy Soule did that? So why would you NOT use it?! THIS MAKES NO SENSE!!!
Both start as militaristic sci-fi themes and then trail off into music that is reflective of the alien threat.
Compare that with the old NS2 music, which was just flat ambience, it was more like placeholder music than a proper NS2 theme.
That's why the new NS2 music is far better than the old NS2 music, and more like the original NS1 music.
<!--quoteo(post=1938998:date=May 25 2012, 07:44 PM:name=Master Blaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Blaster @ May 25 2012, 07:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1938998"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you go with the original NS1 music -- I believe it is more adult, mature, and makes the game look professional and serious. In contrast, if you choose to go with the Propellerheads song like "Not Flayra" suggests, it will seem childish or more like an arcade game. I like the Proppelerheads song, but it's not something for a game like this at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's nothing immature or unprofessional about the NS2 theme music. It has more gravity, emotional highs, and musical sophistication. It's a superior as a musical piece.
You are making the erronous assumption that "more dark and brooding = more mature". That's not the case. Both themes are meant to evoke different things.
The first one has a more ominious and dark feel, both for the starting marine theme and the transition of something that is reminiscent of the alien threat they face.
It works but it's not the only way to go about it.
The second one evokes the determination of the frontiersmen, the confrontration and contention they face, the lurking threats as they expand, and a frontiersman spirit that leads them to victory.
Compare that with the old NS2 music, which was just flat ambience, it was more like placeholder music than a proper NS2 theme.
That's why the new NS2 music is far better than the old NS2 music, and more like the original NS1 music.
There's nothing immature or unprofessional about the NS2 theme music. It has more gravity, emotional highs, and musical sophistication. It's a superior as a musical piece.
You are making the erronous assumption that "more dark and brooding = more mature". That's not the case. Both themes are meant to evoke different things.
The first one has a more ominious and dark feel, both for the starting marine theme and the transition of something that is reminiscent of the alien threat they face.
It works but it's not the only way to go about it.
The second one evokes the determination of the frontiersmen, the confrontration and contention they face, the lurking threats as they expand, and a frontiersman spirit that leads them to victory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, who said anything about the music being "Dark and brooding???" You're making things up then arguing points for the made up issue.<u><b> This is called a Strawman Argument.</b></u>
If Jeremy Soule did the NS1 music, thats reason enough for it to be superior. Enough Said. That man does the Elder Scrolls. Period. If you cannot appreciate that then I feel sorry for you because it is the best music in gaming today.
THe current NS2 music feels like canned game music. It belongs in TF2 or some cheesy game like that, not in NS2.
Stop making things up.
And if you look at this thread, it is pretty clear the majority of people agree that the NS1 music and ambient sound is ***** awesome.
I'm pretty sure I've accurately pinpointed why you subjectively consider the NS1 theme "more mature". And if I haven't, you should try to explain what other reason there could be.
I'm pretty sure I've accurately pinpointed why you subjectively consider the NS1 theme "more mature". And if I haven't, you should try to explain what other reason there could be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason it is better is simply because it IS better. I don't have to write you an essay explaining every single note in the music. It's THAT obvious. It's not something subtle here. You might as well ask me to explain why Hitler was a bad person. That, and I don't really feel the need to explain further because I can see the majority of people agree that the current music and sound is not nearly as good as NS1. Not just from this thread, but from what people say in the game while playing.
If you want a very good way of putting it:
The current music is canned cheese. THe previous music could have been used in a professional film.
<b>The NS1 music was worthy of the Alien film series, while the current NS2 music is worthy of Uwe Boll.</b>
UWE gets to make the decisions but I really don't see how they can throw away something from Jeremy Soule for this.
People do actually continue playing videogames because of the pleasant music, whether you want to admit it or not. And by pleasant I do not mean abrasive, loud, and fast music. This is a psychological phenomenon. It operates on the conscious and subconscious levels and is well documented in biological, psychological, and philosophical literature. If music creates a peace of mind, people will be drawn to its source. And this is not as subjective as some of you will likely claim. Just as music can bring you a level of calm serenity, it can also put your whole mind out of place and you may not even be aware of it. But the end result is that people play the game less, and have an aversion towards the game rather than a desire to play it for extended periods. Anyone entering the business of entertainment would be a fool to ignore this.
And claiming you don't even need to justify your statement doesn't help you either.
I'd expect someoe who studied music for 18 years to be able to express why a musical piece is superior to another.
You are making the erronous assumption that "more dark and brooding = more mature". That's not the case. Both themes are meant to evoke different things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, but there is nothing that makes the new song "superior" in any way - maybe if you want to download it as an MP3 and listen to it, but not as something that conveys the theme of a game. And that's not the purpose of adding music to your game.
In fact this is something I am really fed up with. Companies keep making music that sounds like they are trying to make a movie, or making a musical piece because they want something "epic" , instead of having music that complements the atmosphere in a game. It's pointless to have some largely orchestral song or something that you think sounds awesome because that's just poor design. Again, look at Diablo 1.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Q-r7zV4EM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Q-r7zV4EM</a>
The music is a large reason the game is so absorbing and it's very easy to go back to and play. That, along with the art style and sound, pulls you in. Something like the current theme for NS might be cool at first but its novelty will wear off because there isn't any substance or real reason behind it. In fact, it sounds very similar to many other game's music. And yes, sometimes darker does = more mature because it takes a better understanding of musical composition to appreciate what it takes to make music like that that actually goes along with the game.
That's a valid point to argue, as to what the style of the game is and how the music should convey that.
As music I like the NS2 theme better.
As a theme it does work, but it works in a different way, a way I personally like more. But then that's subjective taste.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And yes, sometimes darker does = more mature because it takes a better understanding of musical composition to appreciate what it takes to make music like that that actually goes along with the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Darker in itself is never more or less inherently mature, it's just a style that either fits or doesn't fit with what it is paired to.
A lot of people in film and such make the mistake of equating darkness with maturity, because for a lot of people things get darker, more cynical and jaded, as they mature. That is not always true.
In a lot of ways I actually see darkness as less mature, because it takes a lot more maturity to be hopeful and optimistic it the face of life's darkness than it is to just give in to that darkness and accept it.
And claiming you don't even need to justify your statement doesn't help you either.
I'd expect someoe who studied music for 18 years to be able to express why a musical piece is superior to another.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually kind of DID explain why it is superior even though you chose to only read the part where I said that I do not need to do so.
Read the last paragraph of that post:
People do actually continue playing videogames because of the pleasant music, whether you want to admit it or not. And by pleasant I do not mean abrasive, loud, and fast music. This is a psychological phenomenon. It operates on the conscious and subconscious levels and is well documented in biological, psychological, and philosophical literature. If music creates a peace of mind, people will be drawn to its source. And this is not as subjective as some of you will likely claim. Just as music can bring you a level of calm serenity, it can also put your whole mind out of place and you may not even be aware of it. But the end result is that people play the game less, and have an aversion towards the game rather than a desire to play it for extended periods. Anyone entering the business of entertainment would be a fool to ignore this.
Again, UWE gets to make the decisions but I really don't see how they can throw away something from Jeremy Soule for this new stuff.
/good game
//And one more thing<b>, this impact of ambient music and sound on biological and psychological processes is NOT an opinion</b>. If UWE asks for academic literature explaining this, I will gladly provide it, but I will not go pulling up academic sources for random people on the internet.
It works but it's not the only way to go about it.
The second one evokes the determination of the frontiersmen, the confrontration and contention they face, the lurking threats as they expand, and a frontiersman spirit that leads them to victory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er... only problem is, the theme music needs to work for both teams. It's not Alien Shooter Bob.. er, Frank after all. That's why the original NS1 music was better... it set the tone of the overall game from the jump.
Also, that's why I said to close your eyes and imagine that it was BF3/CoD/GoW/GBS17. It's a flat martial theme aimed more at evoking 'war' than 'war with another species', and would not be out of place in ANY generic shooter, rather than a piece purely aimed toward anything even slightly sci-fi geared. I'm not saying to bust out the theramins, just that it's generic and bland 'shooter game music' which is instantly forgettable... not something that a MAIN THEME should be.
Also, that's why I said to close your eyes and imagine that it was BF3/CoD/GoW/GBS17. It's a flat martial theme aimed more at evoking 'war' than 'war with another species', and would not be out of place in ANY generic shooter, rather than a piece purely aimed toward anything even slightly sci-fi geared. I'm not saying to bust out the theramins, just that it's generic and bland 'shooter game music' which is instantly forgettable... not something that a MAIN THEME should be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are correct, sir.
In fact this is something I am really fed up with. Companies keep making music that sounds like they are trying to make a movie, or making a musical piece because they want something "epic" , instead of having music that complements the atmosphere in a game. It's pointless to have some largely orchestral song or something that you think sounds awesome because that's just poor design. Again, look at Diablo 1.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Q-r7zV4EM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Q-r7zV4EM</a>
The music is a large reason the game is so absorbing and it's very easy to go back to and play. That, along with the art style and sound, pulls you in. Something like the current theme for NS might be cool at first but its novelty will wear off because there isn't any substance or real reason behind it. In fact, it sounds very similar to many other game's music. And yes, sometimes darker does = more mature because it takes a better understanding of musical composition to appreciate what it takes to make music like that that actually goes along with the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are more than correct, sir.
If it's a legal issue over Jeremy Soule's music, then there is a simple solution which is to come up with music and ambient sound that is VERY similar to that of NS1 rather than produce whatever this generic, canned music is. The sound direction should refer to NS1, not arbitrarily go somewhere else for no good reason when the first game was superb in this area.
Er, I'm pretty sure w- ...<i>they</i> paid Jeremy to write that for NS1 as a work-for-hire, rather than using any kind of non-commercial license on an existing piece of music. Written/designed for/paid for by/belongs to UWE.
1. The theme music for NS1 didn't fit the theme any better than the current NS2 theme. Yes, I like Jeremy Soule as a composer, but his militaristic take on the main theme, while well-written, didn't really convey the "horror" that the aliens presented or the sci-fi background of the marines any better than what we have now.
2. There were two pre-200 themes, if I remember correctly. I prefer both compared to the current theme (which, while also well-written, sounds too generic for such an atmospheric game), but if I had to choose one I'd have to go with the one that plays over the opening of current NS2 update videos. The other, while still sounding fairly cool, was probably a little too "ambient" to make a good theme for the game.
1. The theme music for NS1 didn't fit the theme any better than the current NS2 theme. Yes, I like Jeremy Soule as a composer, but his militaristic take on the main theme, while well-written, didn't really convey the "horror" that the aliens presented or the sci-fi background of the marines any better than what we have now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're incorrect. NS isn't really a horror game anyway. It is science fiction.
If you want to compare it with a true horror game, there is Dead Space. That is actually scary. A purple ape/rhinoceros hybrid that wheezes is not horrifying.
The NS1 theme was perfect for the space and sci-fi theme. It was similar to but distinct from the menu music for Mass Effect 1, and the sounds in that particular game were quite good as well.
Also there was nothing "militaristic" about the ns1 music. It was the definition of PERFECT ambience.
Again, when you have a big name professional composer making music for a game, and the majority of the community who have played NS1 agrees it is better, why would you throw it out for your major game which you plan on selling? Sure, go ahead and try out new music and sound designs. But NS1 is still the best so far. People who have never heard of Natural Selection HAVE heard of Jeremy Soule. And even if he hadn't written the music and ambient sound for NS1, it is still ******* great.
Joined: Today, 04:53 PM
Joined: Today, 04:53 PM<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your point? People will sign up on occasion to comment on a specific topic when they had not had any impetus to do so before. Posts like this serve no purpose, and normally would be deleted without comment.
...I'd also disagree with Dead Space being scary. While it <i>is</i> a horror game, it's full of the same cheap 'jump-at-a-body' scares that the Resident Evil series and low-budget 'horror' films are known for, rather than properly using suspense or uncertainty like a proper horror game (the original Silent Hill (at least at the beginning), Amnesia: The Dark Descent, or the severely underrated and underplayed Pathologic). It's about as much 'horror' as a screamer video is... cheap thrills that rapidly become blasé, only occasionally dipping back to a momentary shock-scare. A real horror game played alone should have you leaving the lights on to sleep. A TRUE horror game doesn't require the 'alone' component of that.
What about the other track he made?
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I just find it disappointing when someone is so passionate about a specific topic that they show up and just add to the noise by saying a bunch of things you can't really argue ("x doesn't convey horror"). Most good forums encourage people to not post immediately after registering, because otherwise you get a lot of people who show up on page 2 of a thread and "offer their two cents" without responding to any other posts, like it's their blog.
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Another AWESOME ambient music track that has been inexplicably removed from NS2.
Pleaseeeeeeeee Can we have this stuff??
This is actually the ambient music I am talking about! If this is put in NS2 I would cry from joy.
Read the last paragraph of that post:
People do actually continue playing videogames because of the pleasant music, whether you want to admit it or not. And by pleasant I do not mean abrasive, loud, and fast music. This is a psychological phenomenon. It operates on the conscious and subconscious levels and is well documented in biological, psychological, and philosophical literature. If music creates a peace of mind, people will be drawn to its source. And this is not as subjective as some of you will likely claim. Just as music can bring you a level of calm serenity, it can also put your whole mind out of place and you may not even be aware of it. But the end result is that people play the game less, and have an aversion towards the game rather than a desire to play it for extended periods. Anyone entering the business of entertainment would be a fool to ignore this.
Again, UWE gets to make the decisions but I really don't see how they can throw away something from Jeremy Soule for this new stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All you're doing is talking about the necessity of music to creating an atmosphere, without ever actually explaining why the NS2 menu music fails at that compared with the NS1 theme.
I often forget that NS1/2 has menu music because I've set both volumes to zero. However, if people want it, I bet it wouldn't be too difficult for someone in the community to mod it into NS2.
Can someone for the love of god please post the original menu theme for NS2.
Then you can all see how much better it is then the current sugarcoated, commercialized theme. I hate it.