Onos - To easy to obtain.
Papayas
Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
<div class="IPBDescription">And then the game ends.</div>After playing a few games of this build; must say I'm loving it. The aliens just rush Onos from the moment they start, attempting to get 75 PRes and as soon as they do the game pretty much ends because 3 people went Onos.
Just a question, why have the changed the fact that in NS1 it required 3 hives to go Onos and in NS2 it requires 1 (Obviously). This is getting more and more like combat and I don't like it...
I thought the Onos was meant to be a game-ender that breaks turtles not ends the game so quickly because the marines don't have the technology to fight them, at least require research if you leave it at 1 hive or make it 3 hives with no research, but your current choice of making it available from the start of the game is stupid in my opinion.
Just a question, why have the changed the fact that in NS1 it required 3 hives to go Onos and in NS2 it requires 1 (Obviously). This is getting more and more like combat and I don't like it...
I thought the Onos was meant to be a game-ender that breaks turtles not ends the game so quickly because the marines don't have the technology to fight them, at least require research if you leave it at 1 hive or make it 3 hives with no research, but your current choice of making it available from the start of the game is stupid in my opinion.
Comments
Incorrect
Maybe an 'Onos Factory' aliens have to go inside to evolve into an Onos :P
Why do people think Exosuit will end all discussion, Exosuit will only allow Marines to win game they are already winning. In an even game they won't have the resources to support it.
Not only exosuit will make it even, it's the mini-gun. It will fck Onoses when they try to behave like now.
And yes, it's a little boring just to wait for Res, I am still for RFK and slower Resflow instead. This way everthing will be perfectly dynamic.
Even if this is the case, that means every marine game will involve exosuits....talk about eliminating other strategies and making the game pretty linear.
Make stomp a tier 3 ability.
The game lasted 70+ mins, and we won lol.
Both teams have significant tech which requires large amounts of resources. If you control and defend your resources nodes, and expand carefully, your team will naturally flourish. In turn if you are successful at aggressively shutting down your opponents' additional resource nodes, this will stunt their growth technologically, and territorially (sp?).
It really is as simple as shutting down the aliens' res nodes, that counters onos'. If you keep them at 2 res nodes or less, you will have tech to deal with onos' long before they field them.
Both teams have significant tech which requires large amounts of resources. If you control and defend your resources nodes, and expand carefully, your team will naturally flourish. In turn if you are successful at aggressively shutting down your opponents' additional resource nodes, this will stunt their growth technologically, and territorially (sp?).
It really is as simple as shutting down the aliens' res nodes, that counters onos'. If you keep them at 2 res nodes or less, you will have tech to deal with onos' long before they field them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately that's not possible unless you are lucky with starting positions or the Alien team is incompetent, any balance argument that relies on having the other team on two RT's is absolutely pointless.
<!--quoteo(post=1937681:date=May 20 2012, 09:52 AM:name=Jayaris)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jayaris @ May 20 2012, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937681"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unfortunately that's not possible unless you are lucky with starting positions or the Alien team is incompetent, any balance argument that relies on having the other team on two RT's is absolutely pointless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We had several Oni killing our powernode, but we didn't care because the most important buildings were powered and my lovely team had flamers and LMG to BBQ em.
Even a 3 Onos CC rush ended in a big BBQ for the marines.
And now you can drop weapons with energy and Pres (hopp out buy one drop it) so its easy to drop a flamer if a team gets surprised by a onos, and MAC blocking can be the new structure blocking).
And that brings me to the best counter for an onos--> the flamer. Stomp uses sooo much energy and the onos also needs energy to charge, so if you can burn that fat beast you have a big chance to kill him because all he can do is walk slowly away.
Maybe an 'Onos Factory' aliens have to go inside to evolve into an Onos :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe they need to go into a hive in order to gestate into an onos, I mean those eggs are tiny and then suddenly a massive onos pops out?
I just got finished playing a match, we were doing great had level 2 wep and armor, whole team storming to crushing machine and here comes 3 onos, not 1 died after all those bullets we fired. That is just plain stupid, and the regen rate for them is so high, i was almost dead as an onos i hid for 5 seconds and had full life!? wtf is that about.
you say its more like combat, but atleast you had to be good as an alien to get there, couldnt just wait it out and ###### around
<!--quoteo(post=1937759:date=May 20 2012, 03:22 PM:name=Arkahm719)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arkahm719 @ May 20 2012, 03:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937759"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The exo suit most likely will solve the problem the first patch its out, then the next patch will be all about making weakness for the damn thing, and making aliens better, if they hold 2-3 rts for 9 minutes you have atleast 3-4 onos. its tough for marines to combat that if at all. maybe a 2-3 hive would be a great thing to stop single hive onos rushes. its so awful because i know how my game will play out, if we hold all rts we destroy the aliens fast, if we dont, we slowly lose our rts and wait for onos to kill us.
I just got finished playing a match, we were doing great had level 2 wep and armor, whole team storming to crushing machine and here comes 3 onos, not 1 died after all those bullets we fired. That is just plain stupid, and the regen rate for them is so high, i was almost dead as an onos i hid for 5 seconds and had full life!? wtf is that about.
you say its more like combat, but atleast you had to be good as an alien to get there, couldnt just wait it out and ###### around<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but its not like our weapons get strong with them, the onos just sat there killing an rt and pg we just sat and shot the damn thing and then once they were done they casually came over and killed us.
Not only exosuit will make it even, it's the mini-gun. It will fck Onoses when they try to behave like now.
And yes, it's a little boring just to wait for Res, I am still for RFK and slower Resflow instead. This way everthing will be perfectly dynamic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How; is it combining the shotgun and rifle together in damage calculation with nade-splash on the side? I don't see how an Exo will win besides the inevitable marine <i>'spammage'</i> that'll follow it. Then we'll have the patches afterwords that just throws it around on the balance-field from a Godly-tier weapon to a waste of Res (Plus I'm having a feeling that its movement will be heavily restricted compared to even an Onos.)
The only thing I can see the Exo being is a tank-unit that only shines when pushing Aliens (In areas like Warehouse where it has space to move freely and open-fire on anything anywhere mind you.) The marines are already more-than capable of doing these pushes on their own and with Arcs if the area is heavily defended.
The only thing I can see the Exo being is a tank-unit that only shines when pushing Aliens (In areas like Warehouse where it has space to move freely and open-fire on anything anywhere mind you.) The marines are already more-than capable of doing these pushes on their own and with Arcs if the area is heavily defended.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Presumably the HMG's mini-gun will deal considerably more DPS, so having 3 Mini-Guns focusing an Onos will burn him down fast.
it doesn't fit in maps
it isn't fun to play against
it is in solely to draw in new playeras that think it looks cool for cosmetic reasons and so players yell "oh noes" (Haha what a funny joke!)
it has knockdown attacks (who thought this was a good idea)
it doesn't fit in maps
it sucked in ns too
Also, something needs to be done about being able to select multiple evolution upgrades from the same chamber type -- i.e. being able to evolve carapace and regeneration simultaneously (after 2 hives). I know that this has been talked about in the past, but I find it absolutely ridiculous. Marine weapons have advantages and disadvantages, which function as their upgrades, but for aliens, there are no upgrade trade-offs? Here, not only do you have extra armor (so you're harder to kill), but you also quickly regenerate your health! I find it to be poor game design.
Not to compare everything to NS1, but you could only pick one upgrade per chamber type, which would change your style of alien place. Either be a shield for bullets, but have to retreat often to heal -- or be easier to kill, but constantly a nuisance with the quick health regen. I know people will say "but we don't have the Shift yet". I realize this, but still, almost everyone goes with carapace AND regen at two hives as opposed to any of the Shade evolutions. Each upgrade should have a trade-off and cater to a player's specific gameplay style. Currently carapace and regen evolutions are a no-brainer, and there is very little opportunity cost for the other alien upgrades.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was for free upgrades but together with ns1 upgrade system. With the current system it's not really working.
In ns1 you had to choose between three upgrades, so there was some interesting choices going, you could go celerity of silence skulk, introducing some gameplay variety.
Now in NS2 you can only pick up what the comm researched (carapace) so there is no choices or variety going. In addition you can get two upgrades from the same chamber. At this point the upgrades could be automatic for everybody, like in the beginning of the beta.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now IMO it should be a tank. A tank should be slow with lots of armour.
The current Onos isn't a tank it's more of a super skulk.
Maybe there could be different Onos evolution paths.
One path for a fast Onos with lower armour and stomp - kinda like the current Onos. Another path for a high armoured tank Onos with bone shield.
Now IMO it should be a tank. A tank should be slow with lots of armour.
The current Onos isn't a tank it's more of a super skulk.
Maybe there could be different Onos evolution paths.
One path for a fast Onos with lower armour and stomp - kinda like the current Onos. Another path for a high armoured tank Onos with bone shield.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos Development
Speed Decreased - Charge Increased to compensate.
Next Build
Speed Increased - Charge still there
It's a bit stupid on part of the developers.
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So true. Onoses are the new fades. And they truly are game enders, as in marine teams want to recycle before they show IN A FAIR GAME.
Only in obviously unfair rine biased games do rines wanna keep playing.
That's friendly to the new and oh so sensitive console kiddie players?
<!--quoteo(post=1938006:date=May 21 2012, 11:20 PM:name=meb3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb3 @ May 21 2012, 11:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1938006"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's time to remove onos from the game
it doesn't fit in maps
it isn't fun to play against
it is in solely to draw in new playeras that think it looks cool for cosmetic reasons and so players yell "oh noes" (Haha what a funny joke!)
it has knockdown attacks (who thought this was a good idea)
it doesn't fit in maps
it sucked in ns too<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That really cracked me up :P lol
As it is now, I actually WOULD rather remove onos!
<!--quoteo(post=1938008:date=May 21 2012, 11:40 PM:name=hf_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hf_ @ May 21 2012, 11:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1938008"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
Also, something needs to be done about being able to select multiple evolution upgrades from the same chamber type -- i.e. being able to evolve carapace and regeneration simultaneously (after 2 hives). I know that this has been talked about in the past, but I find it absolutely ridiculous. Marine weapons have advantages and disadvantages, which function as their upgrades, but for aliens, there are no upgrade trade-offs? Here, not only do you have extra armor (so you're harder to kill), but you also quickly regenerate your health! I find it to be poor game design.
Not to compare everything to NS1, but you could only pick one upgrade per chamber type, which would change your style of alien place. Either be a shield for bullets, but have to retreat often to heal -- or be easier to kill, but constantly a nuisance with the quick health regen. I know people will say "but we don't have the Shift yet". I realize this, but still, almost everyone goes with carapace AND regen at two hives as opposed to any of the Shade evolutions. Each upgrade should have a trade-off and cater to a player's specific gameplay style. Currently carapace and regen evolutions are a no-brainer, and there is very little opportunity cost for the other alien upgrades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree on the cara+regen issue. I honestly think it's the most crucial issue making games end so hopelessly for marines. Onos/fade don't go back to hive, they just regen right outside marine base, sometimes with help from kham-crag and maybe gorge.
If they either had to heal slow or run to hive or be weak, there would be like 1/2 or 1/3 the pressure on MS!!!
Here's what I wrote about this issue before:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=118025" target="_blank">eureka!? think I know why aliens are so "imba"</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=118025&view=findpost&p=1929625" target="_blank">eureka!? think I know why aliens are so "imba" (post #27)</a>
Onos dominance is mostly a problem in public games. In clan matches the game usually is decided by something else, and aliens can not reliably mass onos before gaining the upper hand through other means (good early skulk defence and then solid fading). Also, in clan matches, onoses are more easily hunted down.
On public games the aliens often have the upper hand, since the game favours them at this point. This is evident also in their default strategy and their tech tree (which is really not a tree but a single branch that is good for hitting with). The marines have a much harder time on public, as it is much harder to comm a public marine team properly and because playing marines succesfully requires more skill (or understanding of the game) and more aggression. This leads to aliens controlling more RTs than they should be controlling, which in turn leads to early higher lifeforms, which means the lifeforms come out before the marines have the necessary tech to tackle them. Early mass onoses are a just symptom of this.
So, in a nutshell, my view is that the onos isn't really a serious problem at this point. Even now, the alien rounds in clan matches are not won by onos but by fades. Lets fix the root causes first and the symptoms - if they're still there - later.
Onos dominance is mostly a problem in public games. In clan matches the game usually is decided by something else, and aliens can not reliably mass onos before gaining the upper hand through other means (good early skulk defence and then solid fading). Also, in clan matches, onoses are more easily hunted down.
On public games the aliens often have the upper hand, since the game favours them at this point. This is evident also in their default strategy and their tech tree (which is really not a tree but a single branch that is good for hitting with). The marines have a much harder time on public, as it is much harder to comm a public marine team properly and because playing marines succesfully requires more skill (or understanding of the game) and more aggression. This leads to aliens controlling more RTs than they should be controlling, which in turn leads to early higher lifeforms, which means the lifeforms come out before the marines have the necessary tech to tackle them. Early mass onoses are a just symptom of this.
So, in a nutshell, my view is that the onos isn't really a serious problem at this point. Even now, the alien rounds in clan matches are not won by onos but by fades. Lets fix the root causes first and the symptoms - if they're still there - later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Two onos is usually GG in clan games though.