The Illusion of Free Will (For Alien Commanders)
Stergeary
Join Date: 2010-07-05 Member: 72252Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2010-07-05 Member: 72252Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">How Commanders can't make decisions and are instead team bottlenec</div>On first look, Commanders seem to be capable of directing their troops and influencing the game by having access to team-wide decision-making abilities such as upgrades, research, and construction. But the reality of it is that there are places where these choices mostly do not exist, or do exist but are snuffed out by a single clearly optimal choice. This is especially true of the Alien Commander, whose advertised role as a gardener belies his actual role as a glorified bottleneck in a single-player game. Lets take a look first at where the Marine Commander lacks decision-making power where I think he should have them:
1. When the game begins, your choice of structures is Command Station, Extractor, Infantry Portal, Armory, Observatory, and Power Pack. Unfortunately, none of these are actual choices. The beginning of every Marine game will look exactly the same: Armory, Observatory, Mines. Armory is literally the unquestionably important Marine tech structure which unlocks almost the entire rest of the Marines' tech tree while allowing Marines to heal and resupply at base. Observatory grants motion tracking to the base, and allows you to begin accruing energy as soon as possible for Scanner Sweeps and Distress Beacons, making it indispensable to drop it as soon as possible. Lastly, Mines are implicitly a requirement due to the high impact that they have on the Marines' early game. After this, your remaining resources will likely be allotted to the 2 Extractors that you will be building outside of your base. And just like that, your starting 50 T-Res are gone. <b>Marine early game requires no decision-making, it's just busy-work.</b>
2. You can support your Marines with Nano-Shield, Nano-Construct, Medpack, and Ammopack. However, due to the recent introduction of Nano-Construct, there will be almost no energy left for Nano-Shield until later if only because Nano-Construct is by far the optimal use of Command Station energy. And as for Medpack and Ammopack, they're almost trivial; since the Commander has no use of personal resources otherwise, the only reason your Marines will ever run out of ammo is either because you're a bad Commander or they forgot to ask for more. As for Medpacks, they used to have to be conserved in NS1 due to their resource cost, but now it's not rare as a Skulk to have to fight Marines with their Switch-Axes out, standing on a little pool of Medpacks. <b>Supporting your Marines requires no decision-making, it's just busy-work.</b>
Overall, that's not so bad. In fact, the Marine Commander from there on can make a variety of different decisions with his resources that arguably greatly change the outcome of the game, he can decide to:
a. Expend additional resources on Extractors, or play conservatively with the Extractors that are less remote and vulnerable.
b. Research Phase Tech and invest in Phase Gates for lasting map-wide influence, necessary for passive play against close-spawn Hives if you can move a team of Marines to your cross-position Tech Point.
c. Research Advanced Armory for fast Grenade Launchers, especially viable as an aggressive play against Alien teams with close-spawns or high Gorge count, can use as a game-ender.
d. Research Advanced Armory, construct Prototype Labs, and research Jetpacks for fast mobility advantage, possibly a game-ending amount of advantage.
e. Construct Arms Lab and dedicate all expendable resources to Weapons/Armor upgrade, with Armor 2 coinciding with Fades and Weapon 3 coinciding with Onoses.
f. Research Shotguns and gain a volatile advantage against every non-Onos lifeform.
g. Construct Robotics Factory, upgrade into Advanced Robotics Factory, construct ARCs. Especially effective against close-spawn Hives. Can utilize at a late-game Phase Gated location as a game-ender.
h. Construct a Command Station and Observatory in a remote Tech Point to defend.
i. Construct Power Packs to maintain power to Infantry Portals, Observatories, and/or Arms Labs during power-downs.
But for the Aliens? It's pretty bad:
a. With your 50 initial T-Res, construct Cysts up to Resource Nodes and construct Harvesters on them. Use Nutrient Mist on your first Hive repeatedly. If you have sufficient early-game T-Res, research Crag Hive and construct a Carapace Shell. Research Augmentation at approximately 6 minutes into the game. Construct a second Hive and a Regen Shell afterwards. Continue to construct additional Hives whenever your team is has properly repelled the Marines and your resources allow. Construct Whips when the enemy has Grenade Launchers. Construct Crags when your team has pushed the enemy back to their base.
<b>This is your only strategy. Literally every game.</b>
So, my question is, why not make more of the Aliens' functions a decision for the Commander? Why is the Alien Commander so plagued by the busy-work of clicking Cysts to expandable areas, clicking Nutrient Mist on the first Hive until it's Mature, clicking Cloak on Shades every 30 seconds, clicking Umbra where Marines are attacking, a bunch of uninspired clicks that never require the slightest thought. What if all the abilities we took for granted, were instead tech paths that the Alien Commander can choose, and out of which you can alter how the game will play out? Obviously, all Aliens will still have at least a basic attack, so then what's on the table of possible researchable items are: Evolve Gorge, evolve Lerk, evolve Fade, evolve Onos, Parasite, Leap, wall-climbing/wall-jumping, Heal Spray, Cysts, Hydras, Clogs, Spores, Bile Bomb, Stab, Blink, shadow-stepping, Smash, Stomp, and Charge. Of course, I'm not saying that all of these should be researched, but all of these can <b>potentially be researches</b>.
And beyond decision-making for Commanders, why is it that there are no cues for <i>what</i> decisions to make? In Starcraft, for example, you can respond to an enemy's tech path by scouting them and building a counter. In NS2, what's the cue to defend against a Grenade Launcher rush? Well, that would be the Grenades hitting your Hive - that's literally your only cue that they invested in a Grenade Launcher rush.
I'd like this to just be a springboard for new ideas, and has been mostly based on my Comming experience thus far.
1. When the game begins, your choice of structures is Command Station, Extractor, Infantry Portal, Armory, Observatory, and Power Pack. Unfortunately, none of these are actual choices. The beginning of every Marine game will look exactly the same: Armory, Observatory, Mines. Armory is literally the unquestionably important Marine tech structure which unlocks almost the entire rest of the Marines' tech tree while allowing Marines to heal and resupply at base. Observatory grants motion tracking to the base, and allows you to begin accruing energy as soon as possible for Scanner Sweeps and Distress Beacons, making it indispensable to drop it as soon as possible. Lastly, Mines are implicitly a requirement due to the high impact that they have on the Marines' early game. After this, your remaining resources will likely be allotted to the 2 Extractors that you will be building outside of your base. And just like that, your starting 50 T-Res are gone. <b>Marine early game requires no decision-making, it's just busy-work.</b>
2. You can support your Marines with Nano-Shield, Nano-Construct, Medpack, and Ammopack. However, due to the recent introduction of Nano-Construct, there will be almost no energy left for Nano-Shield until later if only because Nano-Construct is by far the optimal use of Command Station energy. And as for Medpack and Ammopack, they're almost trivial; since the Commander has no use of personal resources otherwise, the only reason your Marines will ever run out of ammo is either because you're a bad Commander or they forgot to ask for more. As for Medpacks, they used to have to be conserved in NS1 due to their resource cost, but now it's not rare as a Skulk to have to fight Marines with their Switch-Axes out, standing on a little pool of Medpacks. <b>Supporting your Marines requires no decision-making, it's just busy-work.</b>
Overall, that's not so bad. In fact, the Marine Commander from there on can make a variety of different decisions with his resources that arguably greatly change the outcome of the game, he can decide to:
a. Expend additional resources on Extractors, or play conservatively with the Extractors that are less remote and vulnerable.
b. Research Phase Tech and invest in Phase Gates for lasting map-wide influence, necessary for passive play against close-spawn Hives if you can move a team of Marines to your cross-position Tech Point.
c. Research Advanced Armory for fast Grenade Launchers, especially viable as an aggressive play against Alien teams with close-spawns or high Gorge count, can use as a game-ender.
d. Research Advanced Armory, construct Prototype Labs, and research Jetpacks for fast mobility advantage, possibly a game-ending amount of advantage.
e. Construct Arms Lab and dedicate all expendable resources to Weapons/Armor upgrade, with Armor 2 coinciding with Fades and Weapon 3 coinciding with Onoses.
f. Research Shotguns and gain a volatile advantage against every non-Onos lifeform.
g. Construct Robotics Factory, upgrade into Advanced Robotics Factory, construct ARCs. Especially effective against close-spawn Hives. Can utilize at a late-game Phase Gated location as a game-ender.
h. Construct a Command Station and Observatory in a remote Tech Point to defend.
i. Construct Power Packs to maintain power to Infantry Portals, Observatories, and/or Arms Labs during power-downs.
But for the Aliens? It's pretty bad:
a. With your 50 initial T-Res, construct Cysts up to Resource Nodes and construct Harvesters on them. Use Nutrient Mist on your first Hive repeatedly. If you have sufficient early-game T-Res, research Crag Hive and construct a Carapace Shell. Research Augmentation at approximately 6 minutes into the game. Construct a second Hive and a Regen Shell afterwards. Continue to construct additional Hives whenever your team is has properly repelled the Marines and your resources allow. Construct Whips when the enemy has Grenade Launchers. Construct Crags when your team has pushed the enemy back to their base.
<b>This is your only strategy. Literally every game.</b>
So, my question is, why not make more of the Aliens' functions a decision for the Commander? Why is the Alien Commander so plagued by the busy-work of clicking Cysts to expandable areas, clicking Nutrient Mist on the first Hive until it's Mature, clicking Cloak on Shades every 30 seconds, clicking Umbra where Marines are attacking, a bunch of uninspired clicks that never require the slightest thought. What if all the abilities we took for granted, were instead tech paths that the Alien Commander can choose, and out of which you can alter how the game will play out? Obviously, all Aliens will still have at least a basic attack, so then what's on the table of possible researchable items are: Evolve Gorge, evolve Lerk, evolve Fade, evolve Onos, Parasite, Leap, wall-climbing/wall-jumping, Heal Spray, Cysts, Hydras, Clogs, Spores, Bile Bomb, Stab, Blink, shadow-stepping, Smash, Stomp, and Charge. Of course, I'm not saying that all of these should be researched, but all of these can <b>potentially be researches</b>.
And beyond decision-making for Commanders, why is it that there are no cues for <i>what</i> decisions to make? In Starcraft, for example, you can respond to an enemy's tech path by scouting them and building a counter. In NS2, what's the cue to defend against a Grenade Launcher rush? Well, that would be the Grenades hitting your Hive - that's literally your only cue that they invested in a Grenade Launcher rush.
I'd like this to just be a springboard for new ideas, and has been mostly based on my Comming experience thus far.
Comments
Alien Commander is pretty gimped on choices though. I'm still waiting for each individual lifeform ability to be made a separate, time-consuming Hive evolution to unlock.
Alien Commander is pretty gimped on choices though. I'm still waiting for each individual lifeform ability to be made a separate, time-consuming Hive evolution to unlock.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even then, you're just taking the game we already have (with too little diversity, and too much power in basic easy-to-use things like slulks), and adding a bunch of time delays and button presses. No new strategic options.
i think the mine's main issue is the lack of RFK
@ns1 you spend 10res to get 4 mines that probably kill 4 aliens and bring you up to 8res back. effective investment: 2res
@ns1 you spend 10res to get 4 mines that probably kill 4 aliens and bring you up to 8res back. effective investment: 2res<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem with RFK is the cycle of getting players further ahead when killing someone already puts the enemy at a disadvantage
I also think they should have some lifeforms require tech to scale to lategame, aside from just ability-wise. The onos for example could benefit from getting 'better armour' lategame, while being made a little weaker early on. Since UWE doesn't want to have lifeforms unlocked before players can get to them (unlike marine weaponry which require t.res tech first), they need to have some additional T.res sink to them to make them better. (Abilities alone don't cut it, since there is more to scaling a lifeform than the abilities he uses)
I totally agree that Alien commander is pretty dry without the need for a 2nd hive.
However, there are actually 4 strategies or builds, (I'll let you guess which one is dominant if not OP since this build) and 5 once shift gets in.
1) Crag hive -> augmentation
2) Shade hive -> Use of shade cloak -> augmentation
3) 4Whip -> Upgrades -> augmentation -> insta win with bombard.
4) Drifter spam rush on CC before gl's to soak enemy bullets (if team isn't incompetent)
5) Shift
I've seen suggestions that propose RTs give 0 Pres at start, and have upgrades for Tres to allow them to extract Pres at increasing rates for higher upgrades.
That’d be more or less the same I agree, but as it’s a pretty much obligatory upgrade, it would compound the illusion of free will problem that the OP describes, not to mention that denying early access to pres would just increase the length of the rifle marine vs skulk phase of the game. IMO a simple dial the comm/khamm can set is a game decision that can be taken as early as you step into the chair or hive and should lead to different strategies with negligible additional management.
Parasite in armory will tell you when it is upgraded. Also, you can deduce a lot by the perceived marine res usage and timings (a lot of early shotguns -> possible lack of res for early GLs). A lot of marine RTs through early game -> big possibility of GLs. Also, if your team pushes at the marines hard enough, they will have to show their hand and use grenades just to keep res and/or base (although a good, disciplined team might still refrain from shooting GL and only use shotty/LMG while enroute to hive!). You are most vulnerable to GLs before fades, so that is when you need to be on guard for the most part and possibly err on the side of caution with whips (and ordering more scouting skulks etc).
After the fades are out you will most likely have res enough to put in a whip or two just in case, and GLs are to be expected later on anyway.
Otherwise I do agree, that the alien tech tree and alien tactics do not provide for variety. Changes needed!
What I think would give alien comm more strategic dept is the option to "posses" cysts.
A quick doubleclick lets the comm see the world from inside the cyst. From here he can place cysts wherever he wants (ceiling, walls). Not only it will bring more diverse cyst-chains to the game, but also more fun, "realism" and originality.
More precise placement of cysts also leads to better placement of other structures.
What I think would give alien comm more strategic dept is the option to "posses" cysts.
A quick doubleclick lets the comm see the world from inside the cyst. From here he can place cysts wherever he wants (ceiling, walls). Not only it will bring more diverse cyst-chains to the game, but also more fun, "realism" and originality.
More precise placement of cysts also leads to better placement of other structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a funny idea, being able to see the world around from the floor. :) The Gorge already does that job though.