Ick... Nasty Hmg Rush Tactic
Morose
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5961Members
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5961Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Makes me feel dirty</div> Well, one of the guys I game with came up with a disgustingly effective strategy last night. Basically we turtle and kill all incoming skulks rushes while the comm builds two IPs, and an Armory... then load up on ammo, and he immediately upgrades the armory. Then, we pass out a couple HMGs VERY early to the best shots on the team, and proceed to march around the map, laying waste to everything on our way to the hive. If one of the HMG guys somehow gets killed? The marine behind him picks up the HMG, and we carry on. This is one of those tactics developed due to the fear of hitting the mid game and dealing with Fades, and it's REALLY effective. If the aliens don't have a VERY good gorge or if they try using more than one, they will be slaughtered and their hive will go down before they even get a chance to THINK about putting a second one up. Icky, icky, icky. Anyway... just had to post this so it can be considered by those who think marines don't have a chance. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
You COULD use this strategy legitimately. Equipping a couple "guards" with HMGs to watch while the rest of your mainres build stuff. But it's so effective at taking down hives, there's almost no reason not to just march right in and gun one down. Something to think about.
You COULD use this strategy legitimately. Equipping a couple "guards" with HMGs to watch while the rest of your mainres build stuff. But it's so effective at taking down hives, there's almost no reason not to just march right in and gun one down. Something to think about.
Comments
Scanner sweeps I suppose?
BlueGhost
there is no tech, thats what the original poster was saying.
15 for IP
1 armory (25) + 35 to upgrade it. and you can drop 1 HMG and another in 1min. If this fails just go about normally building a TF, 2 SG's, expand, etc.
While it is possible for a coordinated skulk assault to counter the HMG rush, it'd be mighty hard against a marine team of even moderate skill. Of course, when teams switched next round, we used the same strategy right back at 'em <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And yes, it felt dirty <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
it was pretty amusing. the commander who spent all of our resources on hmgs got frustrated, cursed at us and left.
so the morale of the story, know your troops and make sure you can tell who the decent players are before you try this strategy.
i think he prefaced the hmg drop with "ok, don't pick up a hmg unless you are good." i don't think that's gonna do it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
it was pretty amusing. the commander who spent all of our resources on hmgs got frustrated, cursed at us and left.
so the morale of the story, know your troops and make sure you can tell who the decent players are before you try this strategy.
i think he prefaced the hmg drop with "ok, don't pick up a hmg unless you are good." i don't think that's gonna do it. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> *LoL*
Yeah even though I wouldn't call this an 'Advanced Tactic' for Clans the whole concept of teamwork is a pretty advanced strategy on pubs.
I would like to see how many nodes and how far along the 2nd Hive is before the Marines get 2 HMGs with this strategy. Anybody know?
I can think of some weaknesses that could be exploited to counter this strategy but without knowing exactly how long it'll take to get these upgrade I cannot be sure.
BlueGhost
I still vote to stick with an early observatory - HMGs vs skulks just seems like overkill to me when they die so easily to LMGs in the early game.
No reason to hold off on upgrading that armory a bit earlier though if you can get an extra RT up early on.
YOU JUST SUCK
I told you guys you were slower learners and that in a while you guys would figure it out
It's actually a very common tactic, though I don't see it in use too terrible often. The only problem with the HMG Rush is when you are in a public game and no one has voice communication - those games usually result in a lot of name calling, cursing and eventually a loss after a coordinated skulk rush by a very unhappy alien team. I'm around in a lot of different servers doing this rush, most are successful, but - yeah, when they fail, I get real upset, insult the team, and run into a corner and cry for a time.
If you do it quick enough, the game can be over in under 5 minutes. That's nowhere near enough time to get a second hive up and pumping out more skulks.
In a game of atleast 6 people on either side, I've seen those crafty asians (koreans) pull of similar LMG rushes with motion tracking... but they took about 12 minutes. That's cutting it pretty close for an all or nothing move.
Lastly, if you don't recognize the name, I was commanding under ":dis| _x" Hope the name rings some bells there. Sorry for calling you 'moose'
Final note of caution though. I've been to some servers that start you off with around 60 resources and it takes a lot longer to get atleast 3 guys equiped with HMGs. By that time, your team is screwed.
-2 Spawn Portals
-Armory
-Drop a few packs of mines for defense.
-Observatory
-Scan hives to locate aliens.
-Assess my Marines, do I have any vets... any newbs?
<b>Option 1:</b>
-Phase Gate at base
-Send all marines to occupied hive.
-Build phase gate near hive.
-Send my experience marines in, 2 cover for respawning aliens, 2 unload on the hive.
<b>Option2:</b>
-Send marines around to the backside of a hive, or the least predictable position (some maps have some tricky seige positions).
-I need a 2nd recource tower for this, so I have the marines secure one (I try to pick the one farthest from the hive).
-Send all my marines to a good seige position. Set up Phase gates, build TF, Upgrade TF, Build a Seige Cannon.
<b>Plan failed because we didn't win already...</b>
-I get 1-2 tries at this before their 2nd hive is up.
-Once hive 2 is building (I always know because I scan alot), we get one more chance to take the least defended hive (usually their starting hive).
<i>We lost <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> </i>
I'm a newbie commander who doesn't know what he is doing, because my marines got munched by the aliens time and time again.
<i>We won: </i>
Lumanis!!, you own!! Get back in the command chair... lets try it again.
I feel securing the 2 empty hives and your base is a bad way to go.
I think the best marine strategy is to attack the hive the aliens start at before they can get a 2nd.
There are many variations of this strat, most of them being more on the conservative side.
Many like the HMG rush, I prefer the phase gate/lmg rush. Both Work.
1. You dont need to scan to find out where the aliens first hive is. Move your viewpoint over each hive location and wait a few seconds. When you hear a squelching noise, congrats, you've found their hive. Also note that when you are scrolling around, you can HEAR Skulks run straight under your viewpoint, giving you early warning without having to scan.
2. A stupidly simple counter to the marine HMG rush early on is: Dont try to ambush the marines. Avoid them, get a group of skulks around to the undefended and unturreted marine start and wreck the damn thing. By the time any marines get back, you've either taken out the CC, or are so close to doing so that the marines spend the next 10 minutes fortifying their base.
hahahaha
1. You dont need to scan to find out where the aliens first hive is. Move your viewpoint over each hive location and wait a few seconds. When you hear a squelching noise, congrats, you've found their hive. Also note that when you are scrolling around, you can HEAR Skulks run straight under your viewpoint, giving you early warning without having to scan.
2. A stupidly simple counter to the marine HMG rush early on is: Dont try to ambush the marines. Avoid them, get a group of skulks around to the undefended and unturreted marine start and wreck the damn thing. By the time any marines get back, you've either taken out the CC, or are so close to doing so that the marines spend the next 10 minutes fortifying their base.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I generally know what hive they are at based on how long it took the skulks to get their, and which side they come from. The scan is cheap, and I can't ALWAYS hear things regenerating/building.
I have a phase gate up and mines, I generally don't have a problem with securing my main base for the first 5 minutes. You can also leave a single marine to keep placing mines/defending.
This plan isn't failsafe, but I think it is the Marines best chance at victory.
I don't see why this would work?
Surely if you avoid the HMG marines, then you just swap your hive for the CC. Losing the CC is bad, but losing the hive is 10-second perma-death.
- The LMG is an effective skulk-killer, but the HMG is devastating. The high rate-of-fire, the increased damage per bullet, and the shot-spread make taking down erratically-charging skulks much easier.
- HMGs lower the time it takes to destroy a hive considerably.
- A dropped HMG will be picked up by one of the other squad members. It's not immediately 25 wasted RP. Obviously there's not enough early RP to equip every marine.
- This tactic is no good if your marines are morons, or if hitting a barn is a daunting task for them. What tactic is?
- This tactic is not invincible. This tactic can be countered by skilled and/or coordinated skulks. A little luck always helps as well.
- This tactic is high-risk. If it fails, the marines have suffered a major early-game setback.
This tactic was effectively used two games in a row. 7 players to a side, IIRC. This was on a public server, but the average skill/experience level was higher than most pub games I've experienced. Not godlike, but also not newb.
I was gorge the first game, went gorge immediately after game start, and I only recall having time to cap one node. It doesn't take that long to upgrade the armory.
It worked well. The shotgunner leads and can easily destroy skulks.
I think a shotgun point-man makes more sense then a few HMGers.. cheaper, faster, and a shotgun is VERY effective at killing skulks.
Place defenses on chokepoints outside the hive, this will buy you some time IF the marines will break the
OC's and DC's placed, go for a late 2nd hive else you are toasted.
Keep the marines pressed all the time with carapaced skulks and be certain to keep track on their plans,
if they go for jetpackrush, fast resources, grabbing hives, anything, change the tactics.
Play smart, dont get stuck on one strategy.