Marine Weapon Buffs for next patch? I mean "Weapon Balance"?
MaximumSquid
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
Maybe I'm off base, but after playing the new build for only a little while these are my feelings on it:
Point Blank (PB) with Shotgun should instantly kill a Hydra <i>(non-mature)</i>
PB Shotgun should take 3 hits to kill a whip, 2 shots if at weapons 3
LMG at level 2 should be able to take down a hydra in 1 clip
Flamethrower should be the bane of the Gorge's Existence
Ability for Marines to pickup and re-deploy or sell mines <i>(One Onos and Marines might as well pack up mines)</i>
Suggestion for alternative weapon ammo:
Slugs or Explosive Rounds for shotguns making them no longer "Light" damage, etc. . .
Suggestion for "showing damage done option" is very helpful to new players and testers
<i>(and is in a lot of other well established FPS titles)</i>
Point Blank (PB) with Shotgun should instantly kill a Hydra <i>(non-mature)</i>
PB Shotgun should take 3 hits to kill a whip, 2 shots if at weapons 3
LMG at level 2 should be able to take down a hydra in 1 clip
Flamethrower should be the bane of the Gorge's Existence
Ability for Marines to pickup and re-deploy or sell mines <i>(One Onos and Marines might as well pack up mines)</i>
Suggestion for alternative weapon ammo:
Slugs or Explosive Rounds for shotguns making them no longer "Light" damage, etc. . .
Suggestion for "showing damage done option" is very helpful to new players and testers
<i>(and is in a lot of other well established FPS titles)</i>
Comments
If we actually nerf Hydras we would basicly making the buildings gorge can make rather pointless to make.
About the weapon balance, I would love to hear the rest of your thoughts about that. I feel like your post is to focused around the hydras.
The hydra has been nerfed hugely from how it used to be. Very rarely see hydra kills and they mostly only hit marines once or twice because theyre so bad at hitting moving targets.
Well I recently got out of a game where 1 gorge at a choke point /w 3 hydras and 1 whip indefinitely held off 3-4 Marines that had Shotguns and Nade Launchers researched
Maybe you should tell me what we should have done differently. . .
I don't see it as balanced when 1 Gorge is doing AoE heals and is out healing all our damage combined
Also as a point of reference it was in North Tunnel on Tram and was no where near their hive at the time
The shotgun is the default weapon for most of the game, it shouldn't be a practical weapon against all alien defensive structures. Your solution to heavy alien entrenchment should be specialist siege weaponry, or massed marine attacks. There is no point in a defensive class (the gorge) which cannot defend against anything because everything it builds dies in one or two hits from a minimally upgraded marine.
With your proposed changes, rifles would be able to kill hydras, shotguns would be able to one shot them, grenade launchers are already lethal to them, and flamethrowers are supposed to be 'the bane of the gorge's existence'?
Exactly what would the gorge be for if that was the case?
really? aliens get 1 more hydra now slightly sooner than they could before, and then they're LOCKED to having only those 3 hydras, NO MORE. when I went gorge I would build more than 3 to protect an area. this is a nerf not a buff.
There's the flaw though. . .
If your Commander doesn't get ARCs or even a Robotics Factory then it's not going to happen
But really is the request so unreasonable?
3 Marines with multiple advanced weapons should be able to break threw what 1 gorge can offer, but we were not able to
I gave it a decent amount of thought later and I think our only option to break threw was to all point blank suicide the whip with grenade launchers and the one remaining person who was alive was going to have to finish off the hydras without dieing to the gorge
Have you played this build rofl? Hydras aimbot.
There's the flaw though. . .
If your Commander doesn't get ARCs or even a Robotics Factory then it's not going to happen
But really is the request so unreasonable?
3 Marines with multiple advanced weapons should be able to break threw what 1 gorge can offer, but we were not able to
I gave it a decent amount of thought later and I think our only option to break threw was to all point blank suicide the whip with grenade launchers and the one remaining person who was alive was going to have to finish off the hydras without dieing to the gorge<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you commander doesn't build an Armory and recycles your IPs, you won't win either. "This could be hard if the com doesn't do the thing to counter it" should be an obvious implied statement about every gameplay feature for either side.
3 Marines with advanced weapons can absolutely destroy anything 1 Gorge can offer. Just fire off 1 grenade each. Done. You don't even have to expose yourself to danger. You'll also kill the Gorge if he's anywhere near his structures, as a bonus.
What 3 Marines can not do on their own is break a comprehensive, actively maintained defense network of Hydras, Crags, Whips, and Gorges. That's the point of ARCs. That's their job. If you don't want to use ARCs then wait for an exosuit then, but no, 3 marines are not some godly unstoppable force the pitiful Kharaa should never hope to contain.
Maybe I should just ask the devs directly what their idea of Gorge balance is and I can test it for them and see if I agree with it or not
Also your comment is not what I was implying as there is obviously a better suicide charge 3 marines could do, but regardless the game's balance is demanding suicide tactics if your comm doesn't support you 100% of the time which is unrealistic
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I think the gorge should cost 15 or 20 p.res now, instead of 10 to make up for that. Perhaps also have 'recycling' (eating your own structures) take some time, to prevent gorges from just turtling up really fast. (Currently they can easily rebuild their base on a new frontline in no time)
Well I recently got out of a game where 1 gorge at a choke point /w 3 hydras and 1 whip indefinitely held off 3-4 Marines that had Shotguns and Nade Launchers researched
Maybe you should tell me what we should have done differently. . .
I don't see it as balanced when 1 Gorge is doing AoE heals and is out healing all our damage combined
Also as a point of reference it was in North Tunnel on Tram and was no where near their hive at the time<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
then you missed the teamplay... (that's not a game problem...)
The 3 free hydras per gorge is fine if the old hydras were used and they died when the owner was no longer gorge. With current hydras? Maybe 1 per gorge per hive.
It's actually 3 Hydras, per hive, per gorge
Not only can a couple of Gorges speed build a hive, but they can then make it impenetrable in under 30 seconds with a little help from Khammander
Same thing basically happened today though; 3 marines run into a gorge and 3 hydras
First guy tried to run past the hydras to kill the gorge and died almost instantly leaving the remaining two with no chance to out damage the heals
Area Denied and very easy for the gorge to move up that line a little at a time or even a lot since you don't have to take down the old structures even before you make the next setup
There's the flaw though. . .
If your Commander doesn't get ARCs or even a Robotics Factory then it's not going to happen
But really is the request so unreasonable?
3 Marines with multiple advanced weapons should be able to break threw what 1 gorge can offer, but we were not able to
I gave it a decent amount of thought later and I think our only option to break threw was to all point blank suicide the whip with grenade launchers and the one remaining person who was alive was going to have to finish off the hydras without dieing to the gorge<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the Comm isn't getting ARCs or Robo Factory, then it's a problem with your Comm and not the game.
Right now as a single Gorge I cannot hold 3 hydra's alive against 2 marines w/ lvl 1-2 weapons. It takes marines a little while but they eventually break through. The heal spray nerf has really hurt the gorge.
It is 3 hydras for every hive, so you can get quite a concentration going later game!
I think the solution is not buffing weps as is but making them rarer while buffing, shotties are pretty standard atm not what they were in NS1 when a shotgun rush was a major commitment. Still I do think that hydras could use some sort of alteration, they are very powerful early on atm (2 gorges can hold off many marines if the terrain favours the gorges and they have minor skulk support) but die very easily once GLs come out. Still no way a single gorge and whip should be able to outtank 4 upgraded marines.
I like the freedom that gorge has right now; I think even making hydras cost 1 would make it so many would no longer be gorging
But we need to see balance with what Gorge has currently
If I buy advanced weapons I expect to be able to get only slowed down by a gorge, have an even fight against a 2 hive gorge, and almost always need help against a 3 hive one
Right now it's 1 Hive Gorge with no skill stopping huge numbers of maines
I played Gorge last night and tried the strategy and did a horrible job <i>(getting killed all the time for poking my nose around the corner)</i>
In the time it took me to evolve and slowly walk across the map again as a gorge most of my stuff was still there
<i>(They were no match for my defenseless Structures)</i>
I'll say it again. . .
I was doing an absolute horrible job as gorge, got no team support, and the marines never retook the node between their base and our hive using advanced weapons for the entirety of the game
<i>sweet, sweet balance. . .</i>
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Nonsense, there's a big difference between them costing 10 like before and costing 3 or 5. You'd still see a lot of gorges if they cost at least some p.res. (Even more if they made clogs available without augmentation)