What We Want

HanzGruber · December 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">Come on, what do we want in a map?</div> This is a pretty simple issue... a lot of people I've come across have said that their only beef with NS is that the maps are all a bit similar for their liking..

So what do we want to see in a map? This is a question whose answers must remain within the world of NS - so no stupid answers please.. This is a genuine question in an effort to give people what they want in a map..

Well?

Lord_Requiem · December 2002

Well although andromeda is not going to be an awesome architecture acheivement like lost or shaft, it is by far the most different map of all that are currently available.

I've just placed 3rd hive area and I'm nearing a beta, people will get a chance to see it soon. It stays within the universe of NS, but its... well just wait and see.

Req

CrouchingHamster · December 2002

Well, in my opinion, I like maps with "features", ( note "features" as opposed to "gimmicks" , I don't feel the need to play an ns_jeepathon...)

Like the map where you weld the power cable to blow an extra entrance into a hive..( tanith is it? I'm terrible with mapnames, sorry..)weldable stuff is great and really changes the way you go about the game..

Vents are good too, sneaky short cuts and all that.

I also like maps where you can find your way around fairly easily, with recognisable landmarks etc.." comm, need a seige at that big sparky electrical thing.."

Some vehicles might be nice, let us scoot around in an APC running over skulks, give us a few trains, or even better dropships to get around the map in maybe..

How about security cameras, remote control turrets, switchable lights, forcefields, lasers , switchable electrical cables dropping into water..that kind of thing..I know the maps are huge and the HL engine has some serious limitations, but if you have the spare resources this sort of thing makes a map that bit more fun..

Also, ....before, I say this, let me state that I KNOW outdoor maps do not fit with the NS theme..

I wouldn't mind seeing a few tastefully done, atmospheric "outside" areas...the particle system is great and you can do some really nice rain / snow effects..I don't want to see sunny- happy world maps, maybe something along the lines of the start of "Aliens" would be nice.., y'know all grey, rainy and miserable looking, or bladerunner-ish perhaps..

You could even restrict these "outside" parts to when you are inside a vehicle or something..

Oh I dunno..

Ollj · December 2002

maps need <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=15824' target='_blank'>New Kind Of Doors, Elevators, Welding And Movement</a>

Lord_Requiem · December 2002

Andromeda has switchable lights, a camera system, a train, and Im considering adding turrets (but not remote controlled, it would be basically gun emplacements in key areas. I dont know how to make them marine only, tho)

Venmoch · December 2002

OK a list! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Trains (Subway style)
Unbreakable glass tubes that go OVER the hive. (So you can look down and go Whoa!)
A little more interactivity would be nice.
Some dark areas filled with mist (like the maintenance corridoor in hera, have a problem in the water distillery or something)
More large hive rooms. (Like in Hera? theres a hive with a ledge and a sewer enterence that ledge is vertigo inducing)
More vents with steam to hide skulks
Much more use of the particle system

I think thats it!

ChromeAngel · December 2002

My first instinct on reading the heading was to yell "Big Guns!".

More (new) ambient sounds would be nice, use of acoustics (env_sound).

Use of the particle system for something other than steam and rain.

Pushable stuff (not quite sure what for yet)

Lord_Requiem · December 2002

1) I will add steam/fog/smoke into a few choice locations in andromeda, IF i can figure out how. Any help is appreciated I can't get the particle system to work, but Im not sure if you need it for all of the above.

2) Glass tubes over hives? Nah, would be cool once but would get old fast. I have a better idea, which at first glance appears grossly unbalancing to the marines, but if you look closer you'll go "ahhh!!" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

I just have to finish andromeda and get a beta out. Compiling it right now on another PC maybe I'll have some more screenshots in an hour or 2.

Lord_Requiem · December 2002

Angel: I am doing a whole new set of ambient sounds, for specific locs only tho... Paradise Lost, Chapel, and one or 2 other places.

Angel · December 2002

The way users are trying to limit their texture limit is what my science teacher would call the "Limiting Factor" to most ns maps. If people just let go and don't use say the LAB textures found in ns_eclipse in the whole of their map but for one section this would make things iteresting. Although the texture limit could get up to 5/6mb the map would probably look alot better than with the same textures over and over.

Areas such as marine only can be made, I am using the "Clip" node brush so that skulks can not climb up and reach a jetpackable area for the marines from one side. If they try they will fall to their death, the only alien variation with the slightest chance of getting their is the Lerk. I feel that marines have less routes compared to kharaa, as the marines can only use kharaa vents when they get jetpacks.

I am also going to adopt the "Weldable Bridge" idea posted on the forums early last week. Only I am going to double it over so that you have to weld 2 areas, 1 being the joint where the whole is, the other being the netrance door. This will lead to one side of a hive.

* - Theres some idea of what my map will feature, I really shouldn't have released that information till the screenshots on X-Mas Day but still it will help others with ideas. Also it is "What We Want" as the Weldable Bridge was requested by a user of the forums, if that user contacts me I will add his name as "Special Thanks" which will be made with the map when it is completed. - *

**--** The idea of the seethrough glass looking over a hive could be a problem, you'd have to totally block the vis with a very "boring" corridor to try and save r_speeds because as soon as you look at the hive it will totally cain it out of the "lower end" spec. users. If you tried to make it look out into a sky environment it may lower fps alot, the trickier part is just vis blocking the other parts of the map you do not want to see, which will end up in a very boring corridor**--**

--**-- The idea of vehicles is going to be tricky, especially for 56k users. I remember when I first palyed Half-Life online, HLDM in actual fact. The train on subtransit absolutely lags like hell on 56k, and as quite alot of 56kers do play NS (I am one for a fact) the vehicle will have to be like the weldable future on ns_tanith, a one off thing that can only be done once in the map. Otherwise you could end up with very big problems (especially if it gets stuck in part of the map due to bad mapping).--**--

Another idea which I perceive as "proven to work" is the switchable lights, you can use the trigger_random / trigger_prescence entities for lights to change. I still have NS Tech Vers 2.0 with the .map file in it, if someone has no longer got the NS Tech vers 2.0 and would like to know how to work the switching light effect it can be done. I think most people will find it easier using the VERC tutorial on switching lights though as it is more effective.

The thing people can do with the particle system and in particular with smoke, steam or fog is to use the trigger_prescence entity. I would like to see a map where you are getting close to a pipe and then you activate the "Trigger_Prescence" entity and a burst of "harmful" smoke will suddenly pop out of a hole and maybe even fill up part of the corridor with smoke by using the fog effect.

PS: Sorry for the long post, I tend to be making longer but less posts these days.

Windelkron · December 2002

You know what I want to see? A PITCH BLACK room with a ladder leading up to a higher, level (which leads into a better lit area). But the ladder is illuminated by a single shaft of light.

Tazol · December 2002

Honestly, I'd like to see an entire map in darkness with a few floodlights/emergency lights. And an important room, near somewhere where both alien and marine can hold, which is a double-resource node.. possibly a triple one.. that has four weldables to light up the map. Each weldable would light up a portion of the map.. I'd like that. Heh.. maybe even have one or two clickable so aliens could turn off some areas.. while two or three of teh weldables couldn't be clickable.. keeping the lights up.. anyway.. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Sycophant · December 2002

One idea that's been bouncing around in my head over the past few days of building is to use a forcesheild-type 'wall'. I figure it'll require getting a backup generator online (long trek to get there from marine start), then maybe resetting the security system (another long trek), and then the buttons work.

It'd most likely be somewhat inconvenient for the marines if they wanted to use it in every game, but worthwhile if the commander <i>really</i> wants the security system online.

My marine start has 4 entrances. Having a forcesheild just outside 2 of the more accessable entrances (with the button on the marine side, of course) would limit the aliens' attack routes.

I may still use this idea in my map if/when I ever get to the "neat additions" stage of development. I just started initial building a few days ago, so I'm still weeks/months away from that stage. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

watch_me_die · December 2002

i'm doing some interesting things with func_prescences and switchable texture lights... you can probably guess, but if not you'll have to wait and see <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

Burnpenis911 · December 2002

there should be a map like you now in Starship troopers, when there in the canyons and stuff, and there base is like one of those compounds with like 3 mountable machine guns and stuff.. i dunno, would be cool,

Angel · December 2002

burn someone said they put that into their map earlier this week

CrouchingHamster · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Angel @ Dec 19 2002, 02:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The way users are trying to limit their texture limit is what my science teacher would call the "Limiting Factor" to most ns maps. If people just let go and don't use say the LAB textures found in ns_eclipse in the whole of their map but for one section this would make things iteresting. Although the texture limit could get up to 5/6mb the map would probably look alot better than with the same textures over and over.

</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I'm pretty sure that 4MB is the upper limit for texture useage.

tommy14 · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (^Requiem^ @ Dec 18 2002, 08:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Andromeda has switchable lights, a camera system, a train, and Im considering adding turrets (but not remote controlled, it would be basically gun emplacements in key areas. I dont know how to make them marine only, tho)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
HOW did you get the camera to work? Chrome Angel says it just doesn't work at all?

HanzGruber · December 2002

The cameras are broken in ns - so either requiem is either a miracle worker or he is predicting what it will have.....I've tried having a camera system in ns_odlers and it doesn't work

sySTEm1 · December 2002

i think the idea of a train that can go to an outdoor area is VERY good, as i wanted an outdoor area on my map im currently designing, but it wouldnt work due to the ns playability (skulks walking on invisible walls to box out sky wouldnt work as they would be able to fly :E) so having a train that goes from one end of the map to the other, whilst travelling through an outdoorey area would be cool. it would have to be in a tube i guess, a glass tube or something, to stop ppl jumping out and running outside. perhaps a trigger_hurt underneath the train so that if any m0ngs jumped off the track they would die.

What We Want

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