NS2 really feeling like a game now
GodofThunder
Join Date: 2011-12-13 Member: 137815Members
Join Date: 2011-12-13 Member: 137815Members
After quite a few games last night, I was throughly satisfied with playing. Marines actually won about 40% of the games and they were desperate hard fought games even with Onos and fades on the rampage. That's a massive increase from the 10% to 90% the aliens usually pull off. Really does feel like a game now and it can really go either way. The mere fact we used Jetpack rushes and arc attacks, while multiple Onos were smashing our base's, and were then forced to try and stop our attacks was thrilling. We had to pull all the stops out but it worked. The marine team even let out a cheer when we won.
The games are insanely fast now due to low res and no hive limits which I don't know how late game is going to work, but are more fun because of it. You really have to throw yourself at the enemy team. You can't hold back.
Just wanted to say im really enjoying NS2, so mad props to UWE. Keep up the good work and can't wait for the game to be finished.
The games are insanely fast now due to low res and no hive limits which I don't know how late game is going to work, but are more fun because of it. You really have to throw yourself at the enemy team. You can't hold back.
Just wanted to say im really enjoying NS2, so mad props to UWE. Keep up the good work and can't wait for the game to be finished.
Comments
For example if you are in a vent as skulk, you look outside, a marine shoot you, you are like 4 meters INSIDE the vent but you still die because of SLOW hitbox or lag compensation.
No idea, but its very annyoing!!!!!
And i don't talk about if marine still see you, its like you are out of his view but you still get hit.
Best example is, if you standing in a door frame, you see a marine and you move behind the wall, you still get hit, even with a ping of 50.
Which makes playing as alien very annoying.
Collisions are very bad, you get stuck very much, also if you play fade, you can "move" into a marine and he fire at you and hit you, while you are cliping around.
Very weird, hope they fix that.
The lag is very well fixed in my mind, old builds lag so much also with hydras, but thats gone now :)
The games are insanely fast now due to low res and no hive limits which I don't know how late game is going to work, but are more fun because of it. You really have to throw yourself at the enemy team. You can't hold back.
Just wanted to say im really enjoying NS2, so mad props to UWE. Keep up the good work and can't wait for the game to be finished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When the patch was just released i had a blast. Performance was up and gameplay felt better. Then the onos power node thing. Once that is fix as they stated they would, the game will be coming along nicely. The people in game are what i enjoy most though. Unlike these forums everyone gets along so well and even though the balance is whacked and aliens get cheap victories seemingly at will it is still fun to try.
Is your team applying enough pressure to aliens at the start? Marines can be very competitive at the start provided the skill and eqiptment (shotguns).
I will however say that every single one of those games has been incredibly <b>boring</b>. Yes, each team has a roughly equal chance of winning, but its the <u>way</u> in which they win.
In order for marines to win, they need to move on one hive room with force, and take the other covertly. This is imperative, the aliens cannot be allowed to take a hive room, because if they do it is almost definitely game over for marines. Once all potential hive rooms have been taken, the aliens are beaten into submission with <u><b>rapid</b></u> teching, far too rapid in my opinion.
In order for aliens to win, they need to get 2 or more onos. That's it. 2 or more onos with one hive doesn't necessarily ensure a win, because with the afore mentioned rapid teching the one upgrade onos can be dispatched quite easily. However, the way in which the onos bring about the end is the boring part. Simply stomp into marine spawn, kill the power node, and GG, game over.
Those are the only two possibilities. No more fights for the the third hive. No more amazing 1 hive comebacks for the aliens. No more steady tech and expansion for marines. At the moment the game has only two outcomes, and both are incredibly unfulfilling.
I disagree.
Marines need to pay more attention to mini-map and the kill register (top left). When Onos are on the rampage, hunt the ######!
The reason, and this is just my opinion, that you are only seeing 2 outcomes is because more often then not the commanders are doing the same thing each game..
I can't think of anything I dislike, except maybe getting pwned by a fade while I'm sipping tea.
Here are some of my concerns/critics:
<ul><li>Bilebomb: Gorge without it seems so damn useless. Before the gorge was perfect and really funny too play (maybe a bit too much energy and hp). Now it is just a useless, boring lifeform. The lerk on the other side wasn´t really funny to play but neither it is now. The behavour of bilebomb seems really awkward too me because I can´t even see if something is happening/dropping. My conclusion: give bilebomb back to gorge and buff the lerk with other cool stuff (umbro-cloud, ...)</li><li>Skulk: The movement seems pretty messed up and sticking to walls/objects is too strong but you (or I) can´t walk properly on ceilings. Without leap the skulk is just breakfast for marines (because of the fast upgrades, cheap stuff).</li><li>Lifeform unbound from hives: I really don´t like this change because after a couple of minutes (like 7-10) two or more onos shows up and end the game. Only turret/minespam can scarcely counter this. On the other hand: Fade is useless without second hive, same as lerk. The gorge is always useless so the only lifeform to play is skulk. My conclusion: Change it too the "old" way and move some abilities from second hive to third hive (second hive was too strong in the old builds).</li><li>Marines: No more teamplay necessary because the upgrades come so fast and the whole map seems crowded with armorys. The new informationsystem is way too much, with this build you could just let the commander (alien and marine) build everything and after this phase throw the players in. No more nice conversation with the commander, all are just running around and shooting stuff without coordination.</li><li>...</li></ul>
I have many more points who drive me crazy but I don´t want to write this much now. Build 199 was almost perfect for me (played most of the time marines) but the last two builds are making me puke.
I´m really sorry for the harsh words, but you (UWE) give me no choice. If the game doesn´t get better (more like 199 was) within the next builds I and my friends try to get a refund (for all the copys we bought, about eight units).
[Sorry for my bad english, german player here typing with a crappy keyboard during a lecture]
Unchaining isnt the problem. The problem is two fold. The two weakest structures are the most important. CC and Power node. Both when they are destroyed cripple the marines. Get rid of tech rooms with power nodes and beaf up the damn CC and we have a fix.
Marines are supposed to expand and have rapid recall with beacon. If either of the two structure are downed a beacon can not happen.
Power node = No power.
CC = game ends automatically.
Here are some of my concerns/critics:
<ul><li>Bilebomb: Gorge without it seems so damn useless. Before the gorge was perfect and really funny too play (maybe a bit too much energy and hp). Now it is just a useless, boring lifeform. The lerk on the other side wasn´t really funny to play but neither it is now. The behavour of bilebomb seems really awkward too me because I can´t even see if something is happening/dropping. My conclusion: give bilebomb back to gorge and buff the lerk with other cool stuff (umbro-cloud, ...)</li><li>Skulk: The movement seems pretty messed up and sticking to walls/objects is too strong but you (or I) can´t walk properly on ceilings. Without leap the skulk is just breakfast for marines (because of the fast upgrades, cheap stuff).</li><li>Lifeform unbound from hives: I really don´t like this change because after a couple of minutes (like 7-10) two or more onos shows up and end the game. Only turret/minespam can scarcely counter this. On the other hand: Fade is useless without second hive, same as lerk. The gorge is always useless so the only lifeform to play is skulk. My conclusion: Change it too the "old" way and move some abilities from second hive to third hive (second hive was too strong in the old builds).</li><li>Marines: No more teamplay necessary because the upgrades come so fast and the whole map seems crowded with armorys. The new informationsystem is way too much, with this build you could just let the commander (alien and marine) build everything and after this phase throw the players in. No more nice conversation with the commander, all are just running around and shooting stuff without coordination.</li><li>...</li></ul>
I have many more points who drive me crazy but I don´t want to write this much now. Build 199 was almost perfect for me (played most of the time marines) but the last two builds are making me puke.
I´m really sorry for the harsh words, but you (UWE) give me no choice. If the game doesn´t get better (more like 199 was) within the next builds I and my friends try to get a refund (for all the copys we bought, about eight units).
[Sorry for my bad english, german player here typing with a crappy keyboard during a lecture]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with 99% of your post but feel you need to give UW a chance. I have every confidence they will tweak the game to within an inch of its life before release, and all the things you mention will be a distant memory soon enough.
Games have become too quick and overly reliant on fast rushes and the deeper tactical side of the game, which a lot of us love, but NS2 has certainly been lacking in recent patches. But, I think that UW will find a perfect balance of action, depth and tactics soon enough.
As far as refunds go, I have put in nearly 300 hours now which is great value for what the game cost and the experience of seeing this game grow. I would feel immensely guilty asking for a refund now after all the fun its given me.
Dont apologise about your English as it way better than my German which consists of about 10 words...most of them swear words :)
Sal
Here are some of my concerns/critics:
<ul><li>Bilebomb: Gorge without it seems so damn useless. Before the gorge was perfect and really funny too play (maybe a bit too much energy and hp). Now it is just a useless, boring lifeform. The lerk on the other side wasn´t really funny to play but neither it is now. The behavour of bilebomb seems really awkward too me because I can´t even see if something is happening/dropping. My conclusion: give bilebomb back to gorge and buff the lerk with other cool stuff (umbro-cloud, ...)</li><li>Skulk: The movement seems pretty messed up and sticking to walls/objects is too strong but you (or I) can´t walk properly on ceilings. Without leap the skulk is just breakfast for marines (because of the fast upgrades, cheap stuff).</li><li>Lifeform unbound from hives: I really don´t like this change because after a couple of minutes (like 7-10) two or more onos shows up and end the game. Only turret/minespam can scarcely counter this. On the other hand: Fade is useless without second hive, same as lerk. The gorge is always useless so the only lifeform to play is skulk. My conclusion: Change it too the "old" way and move some abilities from second hive to third hive (second hive was too strong in the old builds).</li><li>Marines: No more teamplay necessary because the upgrades come so fast and the whole map seems crowded with armorys. The new informationsystem is way too much, with this build you could just let the commander (alien and marine) build everything and after this phase throw the players in. No more nice conversation with the commander, all are just running around and shooting stuff without coordination.</li><li>...</li></ul>
I have many more points who drive me crazy but I don´t want to write this much now. Build 199 was almost perfect for me (played most of the time marines) but the last two builds are making me puke.
I´m really sorry for the harsh words, but you (UWE) give me no choice. If the game doesn´t get better (more like 199 was) within the next builds I and my friends try to get a refund (for all the copys we bought, about eight units).
[Sorry for my bad english, german player here typing with a crappy keyboard during a lecture]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i also agree. mainly with the fact that it's too fast paced. i like the rts, tactical, slower paced gameplay where everything has more consequence.
gorges are amazing because they allow you to resupply from a forward position. meaning you dont have to run back to the hive to heal up, because he can establish a forward defense with hydras. and quite simply: every team needs a healer! while he might not be the most fun class for everyone, he is certainly necessary. onos + gorge + lerk + skulks = great team synergy! the skulks can actually contribute to the team with the lerk covering them in gas and the onos never dies due to the gorge! of course, 7 onos would be op as well. obviously :P
Here are some of my concerns/critics:
<ul><li>Bilebomb: Gorge without it seems so damn useless. Before the gorge was perfect and really funny too play (maybe a bit too much energy and hp). Now it is just a useless, boring lifeform. The lerk on the other side wasn´t really funny to play but neither it is now. The behavour of bilebomb seems really awkward too me because I can´t even see if something is happening/dropping. My conclusion: give bilebomb back to gorge and buff the lerk with other cool stuff (umbro-cloud, ...)</li><li>Skulk: The movement seems pretty messed up and sticking to walls/objects is too strong but you (or I) can´t walk properly on ceilings. Without leap the skulk is just breakfast for marines (because of the fast upgrades, cheap stuff).</li><li>Lifeform unbound from hives: I really don´t like this change because after a couple of minutes (like 7-10) two or more onos shows up and end the game. Only turret/minespam can scarcely counter this. On the other hand: Fade is useless without second hive, same as lerk. The gorge is always useless so the only lifeform to play is skulk. My conclusion: Change it too the "old" way and move some abilities from second hive to third hive (second hive was too strong in the old builds).</li><li>Marines: No more teamplay necessary because the upgrades come so fast and the whole map seems crowded with armorys. The new informationsystem is way too much, with this build you could just let the commander (alien and marine) build everything and after this phase throw the players in. No more nice conversation with the commander, all are just running around and shooting stuff without coordination.</li><li>...</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bilebomb: I thought bilebomb was fine on the gorge. UWE say there are new things coming for the gorge and I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt here.
Skulk: I completely disagree with you here. It's very easy to simply walk on walls/ceilings. The skulk wall jump movement is plausible, you just have to practice it. Once you get good at the skulk wall jumping, it is better than the leap ability.
Lifeforms: The 7-10m onos is obviously broken. I think lifeforms being untethered from hives is fine for gameplay after they balance the early onos. They're already doing this for the next patch.
Marines: I don't agree with this at all. Teamplay is just as necessary now as it has ever been. The speed of upgrades has nothing to do with the teamplay requirement. The new information system gives you a lot information, but again, does not invalidate team play. Team play is still incredibly important. I also have no idea why any of these changes would mean you can't have conversations with commanders. This sounds like previously you had good coms and now you have bad coms. Hardly NS2's fault here.
I agree, wall leap is good. however, i would like to stick to ceilings and walls just a bit more.
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Think about it this way:
<b>WHEN WOULD I WANT TO FALL OFF THE CEILING RATHER THAN STAY ON IT??????????????</b>
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I can simply tap the space bar if I want to get off the ceiling to attack, or hold down whatever key is bound to detach from walls if for some reason I didnt want the benefits of a wall leap, like if I was trying to be quiet.
I think it needs to be tweaked just a little bit more so that I can keep track of what is happening below me without tilting my head up and peeking out of the bottom of my eyes or bobbing my head constantly like some kind of weirdo. I don't need to stare at the surface I'm on in order to avoid falling or getting stuck, UWE has done a good job of giving you some leeway and magnetic attraction so you can smoothly go over little bumps and corners that are aesthetically pleasing but can make wall crawling a living nightmare. We just need to go ahead and make sticking to the wall the default, and the only way you are gonna get off is with the push of a button.
OR, heck, make it a toggle: Would you like to stick to walls by default, and detach with the push of a button? (such as spacebar, which would introduce more people to the wall leap ability) OR would you like to fall off of walls by default like some sort of anemic drunken monkey covered in grease, and cling extra strongly to walls with the push of a button...WHICH btw, should not ALSO be WALK.
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This leads us nicely to my next point:
sometimes i want to wall run (note, RUN) *and* (bear with me here) _AND_ stick to a wall at the same time.............***AND*** (hear me out!!) look down. I know! I know, it's crazy I know. I'm crazy. But just think about it! you could move at a reasonable speed while on the ceiling, and make use of one of the coolest aspects of the entire game, all the while keeping track of whats going on around you1!!??? OP AMIRITE!? Skulks would rule the world. Perhaps this is why the kharaa are having such a hard time establishing dominance. It's the little things that count. They add up to make a big difference.
also keep up the good work UWE.
ps high gorgeous! = MadCow
pps stop taking advantage of being the server because youre unhittable.
ppps you cant dodge spores.
pppps im coming for you
ppppps unless youre on my team. just join aliens.
pppppps NERF HATCHET SRSLY?! hatchet beats skulk 90% of the time...wtf?
Some people need to loosen the attachment to their ideas, as they just aren't working. It's nothing short of a joke to call the bird a "harassing" unit. With the fastest movement in the game combined with a rapid fire hitscan weapon that never needs to reload, and now with bilebomb, that is not what I consider a harassing unit, that's an offensive siege unit. A return to the shotgun primary with rapid fire spikes at hive two would be an improvement.
Not sure how many games have been won by "offensively sieging marine base" with lerks, but my guess is 0.
<!--quoteo(post=1918676:date=Mar 27 2012, 11:07 AM:name=hampton)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hampton @ Mar 27 2012, 11:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1918676"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->offensive siege unit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe if it has 3 Onos friends with it.
Lerks are a harassing unit because they have no survivability. You have to quickly fly through a base using gas and get in small shots with bilebomb/needles where possible. It's not like they can camp a base launching bilebomb after bilebomb.
not quite sure of your point here, but just so you know you do a) stick to walls by default and detach with a push of a button such as spacebar or crouch key b) you CAN cling extra strongly to walls if desired at any time with the push of a button: shift.
is your point merely that you want to be able to cling to walls strongly without being slowed? i can see that argument.
my only issue with wall walking is that the direction of your camera/mouse dictates whether you fall or not. this is so stupid and frustrating, as a predator on the ceiling you need to look down to chase your prey, but if you move forward while looking down at any angle you drop.
<b>my movement keys should dictate my movement, not my mouse angle!?</b>
<b>my movement keys should dictate my movement, not my mouse angle!?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you're on the ceiling and want to look down, just do so and start strafing with a/d instead of holding down w. You can still move and look wherever you want, it just takes a bit of adjusting. I think the problem you're describing is a necessary evil though just due to the way the controls are.
Lerks are a harassing unit because they have no survivability. You have to quickly fly through a base using gas and get in small shots with bilebomb/needles where possible. It's not like they can camp a base launching bilebomb after bilebomb.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't be mad.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgw46jn2BEg&t=3m30s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgw46jn2BEg&t=3m30s</a>
Shut up.
?
I wasn't. I just think your assessment of Lerks is ridonkulously generous.
Shut up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not a siege, it was an all-in sneak attack. If you got 6 skulks right next to a CC, they'd take it down quickly too.
It's also a really old build (Jan 14th). I'm sure a lot was different back then.
Yes I agree with most people that the game is a bit to fast. I don't know how UWE are going to do late game as the game's don't last that long anymore. But honestly thats a great change from the slow slog of marines slowly losing the map, and then spending the next 10 mins locked inside their own base till they finally die. Finally gets the blood really pumping and the battle's are hectic. Having forces throwing themselves at each other is extremely fun.
With the upgrades for marine's are so cheap now, things have changed
-Fades are no longer the utterly dominant force of the game, due to marine's having lvl upgrades quickly.
-Second Hive doesn't automatically win or lose a game, if you do or do not get it.
-Games don't slog on for god awful long hour's.
Also marine's need to pull out every weapon possible to beat aliens, which is the way it should be. It does take teamn work. Even Onos can't just charge into a squad of fully armed marine's, and stay there for very long.
Yes more content is needed and tweaks need to be done but for once marine's have a real fighting chance and it feels like a real game to me.