Suggestion: Marines don't drop guns when they die
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Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31656Members
Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31656Members
<div class="IPBDescription">aliens don't drop fades when they die</div>Have guns permanently die when the owner dies; same as fade/onos/jp/etc.
I think this is a leftover NS1 mechanic that unnecessarily buffs marines and doesn't fit in with the new weapon buy model. It would be nice if marines never dropped guns, really. In many ways it is simply an annoyance:
- You die, drop your gun, and instead of spawning and retrieving it (as intended) a teammate takes it, rambos into the hive and dies next to 3 whips (this happens more often than you'd think).
- You kill a shotgun marine as fade, run off to save some rambo gorge, come back later, are forced to kill the same marine with the same shotgun, he kills you this time, and you have to wait for another 50 res while he never had to.
- LMGs litter base when people buy new guns.
- Aliens have to camp dropped guns rather than move on if they think rines will try to get the guns back. Seems unfair if marines don't have to camp alien corpses.
I could see if guns cost a lot of res (like 50 for a pyro) but as of now, they're so cheap and res comes in so fast with just 3 extractors, I don't see the need for marines to get this buff.
For continuity in the NS universe, say that all rine weapons auto dissolve into nanites when they are dropped in order to prevent enemies from capturing them. I mean, pyro fade = gg, right?
I think this is a leftover NS1 mechanic that unnecessarily buffs marines and doesn't fit in with the new weapon buy model. It would be nice if marines never dropped guns, really. In many ways it is simply an annoyance:
- You die, drop your gun, and instead of spawning and retrieving it (as intended) a teammate takes it, rambos into the hive and dies next to 3 whips (this happens more often than you'd think).
- You kill a shotgun marine as fade, run off to save some rambo gorge, come back later, are forced to kill the same marine with the same shotgun, he kills you this time, and you have to wait for another 50 res while he never had to.
- LMGs litter base when people buy new guns.
- Aliens have to camp dropped guns rather than move on if they think rines will try to get the guns back. Seems unfair if marines don't have to camp alien corpses.
I could see if guns cost a lot of res (like 50 for a pyro) but as of now, they're so cheap and res comes in so fast with just 3 extractors, I don't see the need for marines to get this buff.
For continuity in the NS universe, say that all rine weapons auto dissolve into nanites when they are dropped in order to prevent enemies from capturing them. I mean, pyro fade = gg, right?
Comments
Granted, competent aliens should be able to melee dropped weapons or something, since we are all human players who know the Marines are going to want to re-use that shotgun, etc.
Say, ~50 health, structural armor, and actually decays health-wise over time. (decays faster on infestation as well, around 3x as fast)
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aliens should be able to drag off weapons, though. and maybe recycle them for a small amount of res.
swallowing them seems a bit... dangerous.
skulk + flamethrower = afterburner?
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Haha awesome, but physics for weapons could make the server slow down?
To balance:
weapons should just stay longer and not be removed bythemself (except rifle and pistol, nobody need to pickup that).
another idea would be, that aliens can attack the dropped weapons to destroy them but if they explode (depend on weapon) it fires around it like in some game i don't remember.
If you shoot in this game a ammo box, it fires bullets around it.
Did someone know which game it was? Im getting old...
Honestly I don't have a problem with weapon drops, I only generally find them useful if it's a big attack, which only enhances the marine team effort idea, or if you're defending a base, frankly I don't want to be penalised every time I defend a base by having to re-buy a shotgun half a dozen times.
unreal tournament had a behaviour mutator that offered something similar, on death all your bullets would be shot around you.
if you had every weapon with full ammo - ow!
Probably not, physics for weapons is already in, I didn't add anything really.
But I do agree that weapon drop was copied without taking into account the new resource model.
I think weapons should be attackable though. Two skulk bites or the equivalent in order to destroy any weapon. That way it is a choice for the alien. Destroy resources or take a crack at another marine.
This is another good option. Need animations when they fall apart though.
I guess people would start to ask for a possibility to repair weapons later on if this goes in.
About as many times as I've been murdered as an egg, probably =P
More seriously, though, I think being able to attack weapons as you've said is the least we can afford to do. Mass GL/SG rushes are already insanely powerful even without the sort of infinite perpetuation that weapon pickup allows for.
It makes base raping sightly less successful, as marines can pick up the weapons they lost again. Same goes for phase gates.
Honestly, if you take it away, camping armories would be encouraged, just wait until someone picked up a weapon, then kill him and make all that res go to waste.
Also it helps in pushes, it encourages team work and makes the marines more offensive, the wave of marines has to be broken to get rid of the weapons used, or they can just pick them up again, I dont think anything is wrong with that.
Giving the aliens a way to destroy weapons seems alright, but I would prefer it not to be simply bite it twice, that's just a little bit too easy; the whole picking up weapons and dropping them in a pit thing seems to be better solution.
Btw, if it is deceided that marines don't drop weapons anymore, I think weapon's cost should be cut in half or so to compensate. You can't get resouces as marine that easily and a weapon is pretty valuable. The marine extractors are very vulnerable, and if you sit there at roughly 0.75 income ( 3 extractors usually), getting enough res for weapons takes a while and loosing one would be too much of a penality, so cost should be lowered in order to compensate.
Also, Why dont we cut the fade cost in half, because, like title says, Aliens dont drop fades when they die...
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I thought lerks could already do this for some reason, I must have read about it somewhere and put it together wrongly in my mind. this would be awesome though.
To really sum that statement correctly, you would need to look at the value of alien lifeforms VS the value of marine weapons.
Using rough averages from what i've seen in my own games.
Marine weapons are passed along roughly 3-4 Times on average.
Take a shotgun, that's worth 20 res.
A good player and a shotgun will be practically a skulk killing machine 20 Res > 0 Res alien unit.
-- As a result, if you just fling skulks at a few marines with shotguns, the marines will rack up kills until they die, the shotgun will be picked up again and again and the cumulative res income of the team will bring more and more shotguns into the equation. Meaning marines will eventually win the confrontation.
Shotgun relatively dominates Lerks (30 Res) and Gorges (10 Res), so it's a valuable investment, although these two classes take two hits instead of one and may not be killed as easily.
However a Shotgun only has maybe a 25% chance of killing a fade (2-3 Hits), before the fade dominates the player. Whereas a fade can often kill between 7-20 marines in one life, shotgunners are risky encounters yes, but they usually can win them.
The result being, the fade is more powerful by far, and kills far more marines even with shotties. Which may be intentional, but when a fade is capable of killing 2-3 players with shotties, the shotguns become far less valuable as a choice.
Using rough averages from what i've seen in my own games.
Marine weapons are passed along roughly 3-4 Times on average.
Take a shotgun, that's worth 20 res.
A good player and a shotgun will be practically a skulk killing machine 20 Res > 0 Res alien unit.
-- As a result, if you just fling skulks at a few marines with shotguns, the marines will rack up kills until they die, the shotgun will be picked up again and again and the cumulative res income of the team will bring more and more shotguns into the equation. Meaning marines will eventually win the confrontation.
Shotgun relatively dominates Lerks (30 Res) and Gorges (10 Res), so it's a valuable investment, although these two classes take two hits instead of one and may not be killed as easily.
However a Shotgun only has maybe a 25% chance of killing a fade (2-3 Hits), before the fade dominates the player. Whereas a fade can often kill between 7-20 marines in one life, shotgunners are risky encounters yes, but they usually can win them.
The result being, the fade is more powerful by far, and kills far more marines even with shotties. Which may be intentional, but when a fade is capable of killing 2-3 players with shotties, the shotguns become far less valuable as a choice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A single shotgun can easily kill a fade/fend of a fade with 2-4 meds from the commander. But you have to take into count the mobility aliens get from going lerk/fade.