Anyone else sick of gorges winning the game?
GodofThunder
Join Date: 2011-12-13 Member: 137815Members
Join Date: 2011-12-13 Member: 137815Members
Watching 3 marines with a flamer, shotgun, and rifle chase a gorge in circles around a command center, or armoury is just not amusing. It's not even funny anymore. The amount of times I see a solo gorge rambo a base is getting silly. YES I know more content is to be added. YES I know the game will change. YES I KNOW it's Beta. But just the idea of jumping in circles around a base spamming to win pisses me off.
I mean seriously?
Anyone else sick of watching gorge rush's win the game when Onos can't do anything? Anyone else sick of a solo gorge forcing a recall of the entire marine team, because half the base is about to go up in flames? This has got to be the dumbest game mechanic of all. Gorge's are the worker class, the assistance, the builder's, the defense.
Why is it that a couple of '12 resource' gorges can rambo a base, pass sentries with ease and jump around in circles till the marine base dies? Onos costs 81 res with upgrades and find it extremely difficult to break a fully armed and packed marine base. A great comment by one of my marine teammates was "you wouldn't see 3 marines with grenade launcher's run into a fully armed alien base and do that much damage". Dam good point here. Jetpack with GL cost's 45 res. Flying into a guarded and setup alien base will get you killed very very quickly. You can't just ignore the aliens and jump around killing the base.
After many 1 hour+ games it's so frustrating to be suddenly wiped out by one or two gorges. Im talking hard fought, long games that could have gone either way, good teams where sometimes even where marines have the upper hand. Usually though (8/10 games) it comes down to aliens forcing the marines back into their base till they over whelm them. But meh what ever, doesn't bother me they fought for it. But dieing to bilebomb....
I had the horrible experience of a 2 hour game last night, watching our team get beaten by gorges, when the entire alien team had DC'ed. They had control of the map, and we had only our base. They were about to win. Then they DC'ed so we quickly pushed out and took out 2 hives, and was on the verge of taking out the third when the alien team reconnected. Just by skulks and gorges alone they held on desperately, even though we had phase gates up. Somehow they turned the battle back to a gain a bit of map control (sneaky attack on phase gate was well played).
Then the mass gorge rush's came. I watched 3 bases get taken down to 1. I watched the game change in about 30 seconds when our main base got destroyed over and over. (I rebuilt everything right away 3 times in our main base but they kept coming). I even had sentries guarding the vents, they just ignored them. We couldn't push out cause the moment we did our base's died. So even after the entire alien team DC'ed and we had the advantage, we ended up losing because of gorge rush.
Am I the only one who think's this is seriously stupid? Im sure many other player's must be experiencing this as well. Why is it that a 12 res alien can do more damage than a 81 res alien, a 45 res fully armed marine, and win a game by jumping in circles or sitting in a vent? Why?
I mean seriously?
Anyone else sick of watching gorge rush's win the game when Onos can't do anything? Anyone else sick of a solo gorge forcing a recall of the entire marine team, because half the base is about to go up in flames? This has got to be the dumbest game mechanic of all. Gorge's are the worker class, the assistance, the builder's, the defense.
Why is it that a couple of '12 resource' gorges can rambo a base, pass sentries with ease and jump around in circles till the marine base dies? Onos costs 81 res with upgrades and find it extremely difficult to break a fully armed and packed marine base. A great comment by one of my marine teammates was "you wouldn't see 3 marines with grenade launcher's run into a fully armed alien base and do that much damage". Dam good point here. Jetpack with GL cost's 45 res. Flying into a guarded and setup alien base will get you killed very very quickly. You can't just ignore the aliens and jump around killing the base.
After many 1 hour+ games it's so frustrating to be suddenly wiped out by one or two gorges. Im talking hard fought, long games that could have gone either way, good teams where sometimes even where marines have the upper hand. Usually though (8/10 games) it comes down to aliens forcing the marines back into their base till they over whelm them. But meh what ever, doesn't bother me they fought for it. But dieing to bilebomb....
I had the horrible experience of a 2 hour game last night, watching our team get beaten by gorges, when the entire alien team had DC'ed. They had control of the map, and we had only our base. They were about to win. Then they DC'ed so we quickly pushed out and took out 2 hives, and was on the verge of taking out the third when the alien team reconnected. Just by skulks and gorges alone they held on desperately, even though we had phase gates up. Somehow they turned the battle back to a gain a bit of map control (sneaky attack on phase gate was well played).
Then the mass gorge rush's came. I watched 3 bases get taken down to 1. I watched the game change in about 30 seconds when our main base got destroyed over and over. (I rebuilt everything right away 3 times in our main base but they kept coming). I even had sentries guarding the vents, they just ignored them. We couldn't push out cause the moment we did our base's died. So even after the entire alien team DC'ed and we had the advantage, we ended up losing because of gorge rush.
Am I the only one who think's this is seriously stupid? Im sure many other player's must be experiencing this as well. Why is it that a 12 res alien can do more damage than a 81 res alien, a 45 res fully armed marine, and win a game by jumping in circles or sitting in a vent? Why?
Comments
Along with the reduced projectile arc, it's no wonder BB is so powerful right now.
They must have had very poor connections or really low fps.
The gorge isn't supposed to be a rambo class. I just can't imagine what you describe cos I've never seen it. Maybe I need to play the game more :P
Maybe a solution is for bilebomb to be a stationary attack, like the mortar in BF3.
If they made grenade launcher fire faster and do as much damage then I wouldn't have so much of a problem. But then you would get marines flying in 3's blowing entire alien bases up and aliens would complain. Thing is bilebomb is free and gorge costs 12 res to get when so many other things that cost alot more don't do nearly as much damage.
Doesnt make sense.
Thats a good idea and maybe a small increase in shooting time would help. That way marines can actually get to the dam vent that the gorge is sitting in before the whole base has been destroyed.
My suggestion would be to remove the splash damage and slightly reduce the damage also. Would still be extremely usefull. Nothing more frustrating in the game at the moment than being marine commander and watching a Gorge destroy your phase gates, advanced armorys and prototype labs etc in 10-15 seconds.
If they made grenade launcher fire faster and do as much damage then I wouldn't have so much of a problem. But then you would get marines flying in 3's blowing entire alien bases up and aliens would complain. Thing is bilebomb is free and gorge costs 12 res to get when so many other things that cost alot more don't do nearly as much damage.
Doesnt make sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're saying it was a 2 hour game with the marines beaten back into their base, bilebomb is designed the way it is currently specifically to break that situation. The reason why most of the alien team quit was because they were bored with the stalemate, the gorges took advantage of you finally breaking out of your base to run in and kill it.
I don't understand why people enjoy such drawn out games.
I can understand this being a problem if there is a vent that has a line of sight to to the marine base (warehouse and repair room in tram for example), but otherwise it just sounds like bad play from the marine team.
Don't stop them like a stick in the mud, just a reduction in mobility should do. Making it stackable would be interesting. Similar to how gorge spit slows marines. The goal should be, the more you bilebomb, the less mobile you become. Also comparable to how spamming jump as a marine reduces your mobility.
This would allow supported gorges to spam bilebombs to wipe out marine bases. "Rambo" gorges would no longer be able to run around marine structures whilst bilebombing, hopefully eliminating this annoying, undesirable, tactic.
I agree with OP on the point that gorges are way to much bang for the buck the way they are now.
theres so many solutions.. but the problem is glaring and hasn't been publicly acknowledged just yet.
i believe this and <b>early game skulk rushes</b> account for the ~60% alien win rate currently.
(is there a way to see how many games that end in less than 10 minutes are won by aliens?)
The only time I have any success is if the marine panics, but even then you can easily die.
Gorges can be very persistant and hard to get rid of entirely, but they aren't very good at ramboing, they're more dangerous as a constant problem on the edge of the base than anything. Gorges and onoses working together are very potent so I think bile bomb can be toned down a little, as it is no longer needed to break late game sieges, but I wouldn't make gorges much weaker.
I don't understand why people enjoy such drawn out games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The aliens dc, we know that because they froze in the game and we killed them all while stationary then shortly after 7 of their team droped. I don't know if the OP mentioned this but we had 1/2 of the map before the teams evened back out with phase tech in flight dc sub. We were in the postion they were in before the mass dc on their team exept we couldn't finish off them off due to mass gorges bilebombing multiple areas. As ogz said after the game the more areas marines hold the more they have to defend while that may seem a silly thing to say at first glance but the marines can't hold 1/2 of summit while maintaining an attack on the hive when bilebomb is in play. The reason being it only takes one gorge to wipe out an expansion when marines aren't there even if they did make it back through the gorge can finish off enough buildings to the point where marines can't just rebuild it due to the expense.
The problem is afew aliens can defend a hive with decent defences against 5-7 marines long enough for aliens to do a sneak attack on the marine base and force the recall while doing mass damage to it. 5 arcs probably arn't as effective as one gorge and they also can't stealth close to the base which I see as a huge problem. I really don't have a problem with onos building attack to be made aoe and in turn reduce bilebomb to single target imo that should be getting much closer to balanced.
give the gorge umbra spray as a 2nd hive ability
I should have just got you to write the post XD
I can understand this being a problem if there is a vent that has a line of sight to to the marine base (warehouse and repair room in tram for example), but otherwise it just sounds like bad play from the marine team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They can get the camo upgrade which lets them be invisiable and only the obs will reveal them if they get to close to it. This is fine for the main base but you can't expect an obs in every room marines control.
<!--quoteo(post=1906014:date=Feb 22 2012, 04:21 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Feb 22 2012, 04:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1906014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have trouble ramboing one rifle marine as gorge, your heal spray keeps you in the fight but it doesn't substitute for actual hp and armor, you run out of charge alarmingly fast and it won't heal you fast enough to actually help you against most weapons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference between this and a gorge in base is he can run between buildings and every bilebomb he gets off is more damage to 4-6 buildings. Not to mention after he dies he can do it all over again.
On a side note when you're going up against marines hide around the corner then when they're close jump spam around them to them using healspray they will go down rather fast and you won't take nearly as much damage. Atleast until they have and tier 2 armour.
I originally thought this to however you still end up with a 12 Pres lifeform that when grouped up can take out half the base. Imo onos role is the base destroyer and gorge the backup/utility role therefore it shouldn't outshine the tier3 alien.
Could there be some minor tweaking? Maybe very very minor. But the way I see it, gorges are fine, and everyone likes to whine about stuff. If you can't kill a spitting/healing gorge biling your base, then your team sucks. The commander sucks too for letting his base die three times. FFS, hop out; beacon; scream at your team; motivate your team to go out other exits other than the phase gate; get JP's; etc. There are lots of solutions.
Watch some of my highlight videos of the Euro pugs, and then tell me gorges aren't fairly balanced. www.twitch.tv/zepwnage ---> videos -------> highlights.
Decrease splash and revert bilebomb range and these silly suicide rushes will be alot less effective.
Also swarm makes two, or more, gorges bilebombing extremely powerful.
Right now, two suicide gorges can easily get most of the marine buildings before they go down(marines get beaconed back and kills them).
Due to the long range of the bilebomb the gorges doesn't even have to commit their life in bilebombing the base.
But the "stupid" ones still goes in and suicide, since they have a high chance of still killing structures anyway.
There definitly needs to be done some changes about this.
This is part of the problem having to beacon everyone back to stop 1-2 gorges downing an expansion and therefore not being able to keep up the pressure on the hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1906047:date=Feb 22 2012, 06:10 PM:name=MasterPTG)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MasterPTG @ Feb 22 2012, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1906047"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Watch some of my highlight videos of the Euro pugs, and then tell me gorges aren't fairly balanced. www.twitch.tv/zepwnage ---> videos -------> highlights.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course a competitive team is going to be more organised the a pug team. This is the difference between balancing for online competition and pugs something all multiplayer game suffer from. There is no harm done in implenting what I suggested all it does it make onos more useful and the gorge less effective verus multiple buildings. Also where are the ns2 clan matches in the video list?
Marine structures are very big, without gaps to shoot aliens through. Especially the CC.
That's why.
<sub>(Plus bad peformance and broken hitreg) </sub>
+1
competitive play vs pub play cant really be compared. already pub will generally have 9v9 matches during peak play time which is already different to 6v6 competitive.
if the gorge really is balanced in competitive in comparison to pub, then i see no problem with having bile being nerfed in competitive play along with the benefits of improving pub play?
please, since youve seen it so many times, please please record this I NEED to see this
of course this has never happened, and ill never see a video of this, unless you get 3 very TERRIBLE marines.
but to answer your question, no. im not sick of it. I love that gorges can bile bomb the crap out of marine structures. what more do you ppl want, they already nerfed it last patch.
no,
STAY. IN. CHAIR. COMS.
when im playing alien I LOVE when the com gets out. I kill com, I have free reign to eat the IP's, com chair, power node, whatever.
If youre the com, stay in chair, beacon if you can, otherwise direct your team to either get back and kill the attacker/s or move base. youre much better to your team relaying info, dropping meds, being the eye in the sky than hopping out, and taking the 50/50 risk of losing the game.
no
btw youre leaving out powernodes, macs, wielded doors..
leave gorges alone /chris crocker