Hammering out the Lerk's problems



  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Don't understand why my suggestions earlier in this thread didn't get any love.

    <!--quoteo(post=1897159:date=Jan 24 2012, 11:18 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jan 24 2012, 11:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've already argued why the current Lerk isn't working very well in multiple other threads, so I won't repeat that here. Instead I'll suggest how to improve it:

    <b>Flight model:</b>
    Current model is good, but the near endless energy-free gliding is a bit over the top. Since you don't make any sounds at all while gliding, the Lerk is overly effective at ambushing right now, which is something I personally don't feel fits the class very well. My preferred solution would be to add a little air friction, which slows the glide down over time. You would then have to flap (press spacebar) every once in a while to maintain top speed, which obviously makes sounds that warn the marines of your presence. This adds a bit of choices and consequences as well, as the player now has to choose between staying stealthy or maintaining top speed.

    <b>Weapon 1:</b>
    Currently rapid-fire spikes primary fire with shotgun spikes alternate fire. My suggestions:

    1. Change to shotgun primary, rapid-fire alternate (or just remove rapid-fire, I liked the "no alternate fire modes" design goal in NS1).
    2. Drastically increase shotgun spike spread.
    3. Drastically reduce shotgun spike energy drain.
    4. Increase shotgun spike rate of fire (should be similar to NS1 Lerk bite).

    <b>Weapon 2:</b>
    Currently "crop duster" spores. My suggestion; change to:

    - Non-hitscan, slower travelling, larger model, sniper spike.
    - Semi-automatic with very slow rate of fire (1 spike per 2 seconds?).
    - High energy drain per shot, slightly higher than the current shotgun spikes.
    - Explodes (causing some damage if the spike impales a marine or structure) into a cloud of gas when it hits.
    - Gas does damage over time to both health and armor.
    - Gas dissipates over time.
    - Gas is semi-translucent. Significantly less opaque than the current gas, but more opaque than the NS1 gas.

    <b>Weapon 3:</b>
    Umbra spike, similar to my suggestion for weapon 2.

    <b>Weapon 4:</b>
    Something new and "cool" could be good here. Primal scream was a pretty boring ability in NS1, so no need to bring that back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=1897487:date=Jan 26 2012, 07:47 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Jan 26 2012, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1897487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another option is to change the lerk slot 1 primary attack to burst fire spikes, essentially serving the same role as a spike shotgun or bite, but giving a little bit more lee way in terms of much skill you need to use it effectively in combat. It would need to have a short duration for each burst (0.25-0.5 seconds maybe, to avoid limiting movement), high damage per burst (same), large spread (to limit range) and a slow ROF (similar to NS1 bite, to balance/avoid instakills).

    It might be a good idea to tune the lerk towards doing slightly less damage with its primary attacks, while also being able to survive a bit longer to balance it out (basically buffing hps and armor). That should make it slightly more forgiving for newer players, but also scale nicely for high skill play. Combat should still be fast paced and frenetic though -- the idea is to find a middle ground between the lightning attacks of the NS1 lerk and the languid slugouts with the current NS2 lerk.

    I'm opposed to re-adding bite on the grounds that it is very unfriendly towards new players. It was great for balanced play at high skill levels in NS1, but a nightmare to use for new players. A ranged, although short ranged, shotgun or burst style weapon would mitigate that problem because (a (for burst fire)) even if you miss initially, you still have a chance to do some damage if you correct your aim before the burst finishes, (b) you can use range to make aiming easier due to the spread, although doing less damage that way and © it's easier to avoid damage for new players as you don't have to get right in the marines face to do damage.

    I prefer my "spore spike" solution over the "momentum spore cloud" because (1) I don't think a vision blocking cloud is conducive to fun fps gameplay and (2) the spore spike gives lerks more options in combat.

    To elaborate on (2): It gives lerks the option to attack from longer range, instead of being forced to play mid-short range the entire game. I understand that the developers are trying to avoid the "sitting in a vent all game shooting spores" syndrome that affected some players in NS1, but I think that will sort itself out. If the lerk close combat is made slightly less unforgiving for new players (as per suggestions above) compared to NS1, they won't have the same incentives to hide for most of the round. The mid-long range spore spike (non-hitscan) projectile would also synergize great with the proposed short range slot 1 burst/shotgun spikes, giving lerks a chance to score some rare and very satisfying longer range kills. It would also add another much needed non-hitscan weapon to the mix (currently only gorge spit, flamethrower and grenade launcher).

    In addition, I personally think spores coming out of the lerk's "ass" looks ridiculous. The first time I saw it, I thought it was some kind of gag or april fools joke. The aliens should emanate viciousness -- this is a cyberpunk themed game set in space, not Saturday Night Live. I suppose this is also general issue I have towards some of the visual design in NS2 -- it's too colorful and cheery. The alien infestation looks like something you'd see in a Ghostbusters movie and the blue energy fields and whatnot on the marine side reminds me of Star Trek, not Alien.

    Edit: Fixed some poor wording, initially wrote this in a hurry.
    Addendum: The more I think about it, the more I like burst-fire spikes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think burst-fire would be a better solution than the shotgun, as it would perform the same functions while being a little more forgiving on new players.
  • MrGunnerMrGunner Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11757Members, Constellation
    edited February 2012
    Obviously despite the fact that you are a filthy euro I agree with a lot of your points. You know as well as I that currently lerks are pretty ######e.

    My only problem with your points is the silent gliding. Other than the random alien chuckles lerks have always been able to glide silently while maintaining air speed. When I used to give lerk lessons through NSLearn I always used to show people on ns_bhop that you could maintain top airspeed forever gliding just by using air movement, which was the best way to play as other than random bull###### alien noises you were silent.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
    edited February 2012
    I like how the Lerk gets worse every single patch. This time it's sorta indirect - your teammates take longer to respawn, so you can't treat them like cannon fodder to get safely in and out of combat. Luckily you can roost somewhere while you're stuck unable to do anything safely.

    Oh, and marines can get shotguns before you can get lerks because there's no RFK.
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1900463:date=Feb 6 2012, 09:32 PM:name=MrGunner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrGunner @ Feb 6 2012, 09:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900463"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really don't see why the lerk wasn't just straight ported from ns 3.0. The lerk always worked best as an alien with weak ranged harrass and decent melee damage. This meant that you could just sit back and eat the marines resources by chipping away at thier armour and health or you could commit to fights for higher damage. Right now it works almost completely opposite of this, with the lerk sitting back and chipping at single marines for decent damage or commiting to fights for low damage annoyance. The only real advantage to spores working as they do currently is that they are opaque enough to be used as cover for skulks.

    Mostly my problem with spikes is the same that I've had since the flight model for lerks was drastically improved to the current one and that is that you can't spike and fly well no matter how good you are at the game because there is no way to maintain constant height while flying and you can't strafe in air. Thus the only way for you to do effective ranged damage to marines is to sit on the ground or in a fairly stationary position in a vent or on a ledge. This makes lerk, an incredibley fragile alien, a sitting duck for any marine that can aim at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    because ns 1 was bad, around here anyway. just sit in the hive and wait for onos, like most players are doing
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1900938:date=Feb 8 2012, 05:41 AM:name=incog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (incog @ Feb 8 2012, 05:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900938"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've been trying to keep up with all the posts in this thread, sorry if I missed something. Could someone please enlighten me as to what the exact role of the Lerk is now? I'm a bit confused,in NS1 (2.0) I was under the assumption that it was a support unit. In competitive play going anywhere mid-range in a marine assault was a one shotgun blast death. Sporing rooms with heavy marine activity was ideal while at the same time helping other alien units sustaining damage through the use of umbra with bite being their last line of defense. Why exactly were spikes removed altogether in previous versions? What brought about the reasoning for the return of spikes, no umbra? Is the idea to make lerk more of a frontline unit? Are resources not as precious as they used to be with such great risks now being taken?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    stop trying to make sense, this is ns2
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1901120:date=Feb 8 2012, 08:50 PM:name=MrGunner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrGunner @ Feb 8 2012, 08:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901120"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Right now I can't see the lerk being an effective unit at all in competitive play. While it is highly mobile its harrassment ability requires it to be relatively immobile, either by sitting somewhere or by hovering or gliding and shooting spikes at marines. The problem with this is that the lerk is not durable nor high damage enough to be able to sit there and straight trade damage with marines. Any competetant marine will just snipe it with his pistol or shoot it out of the air with ease. So basically for a lerk to do damage they either need to be in close to marines, which with their 30 res cost and their annoying spores makes them a high priority target and good marines will gib them, or they are sitting at mid range spiking a single marine and good marines will gib them,

    The reason why lerks were always valuable in competitive play was because while their ranged harrassment was fairly weak, it hit multiple marines at a time. You could also just fire and forget it which allowed you to remain in hiding until you were ready to try to commit to combat. A good lerk could then use this tactic to pressure marines into an area where the lerk could either glide in on them silently or dive them fast and bite the crap out of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    sounds unbalanced to me
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1900303:date=Feb 6 2012, 02:01 PM:name=Asmodies)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asmodies @ Feb 6 2012, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1900303"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bumping this with a reply since I feel it needs attention.

    I played lerk mostly in NS1 unless it got to really late game and we needed more fades/onoses, and Lerks used to be effective from rushing them early game all the way until end game. Early-mid game they were great skirmishers, gassing marines from safety and using that as area denial to defend early res nodes, and when a marine was weak they could get in, focus bite, and get out before being sprayed to death. From mid to late game that role would shift into support/finisher, with umbra they would support charges or defend at critical moments, and with scream they could help fades acid rocket turret farms down and break the marines shell.

    Now, I don't see any of those things (mostly because they don't even have umbra or scream) mostly because in order to support they have to take really big risks with how the spores are now, and they can't finish anyone off because of how little damage spikes do, not to mention how inaccurate they are. They can't even take out structures that are unguarded. So they're not good against marines, and they're bad against structures, and they're support is minimal, they're a flying gorge without bile bomb or heal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    but pointing this out is.. bad?
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
    could you combine those posts into one so the thread is less ugly? I'd really appreciate it :)
  • MrGunnerMrGunner Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11757Members, Constellation
    Or maybe just quote the part of the persons post that you are replying to so that there is some sort of context and your posts don't come off as assinine ramblings.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    edited February 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1901179:date=Feb 9 2012, 01:29 PM:name=MrGunner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrGunner @ Feb 9 2012, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901179"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually thinking about it I'd like to see it drain the whole bar. The more energy you have the more damage it does, or maybe spikes that come out. I really want either a sustained melee ability or a really strong close range burst ability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I find the problem with that is that... if you miss, then you're screwed for attacking again.

    So it's rather binary: hit or miss. The "skill curve" isn't continuous.
    EDIT: Actually no that's not quite true, because 'how many spikes hit' may increase with skill. Still...

    A few, powerful, attacks makes sense, because of the short conflict period. But I think there should be (at least the option of) more than just one, so that if you don't get them with the first hit, you are not immediately useless.

    Perhaps a better approach would be in-built focus for the lerk shotgun spikes?
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1901527:date=Feb 10 2012, 02:38 AM:name=MrGunner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrGunner @ Feb 10 2012, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901527"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Obviously despite the fact that you are a filthy euro I agree with a lot of your points. You know as well as I that currently lerks are pretty ######e.

    My only problem with your points is the silent gliding. Other than the random alien chuckles lerks have always been able to glide silently while maintaining air speed. When I used to give lerk lessons through NSLearn I always used to show people on ns_bhop that you could maintain top airspeed forever gliding just by using air movement, which was the best way to play as other than random bull###### alien noises you were silent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well yeah, and the random alien noises in NS1 were incredibly annoying so we definitely don't want those back. The difference is that currently in NS2 it's almost impossible to lose any speed at all while gliding. You can do 360 turns almost on the spot and still retain all your speed. In NS1 there was a hard limit to how fast you could turn or go up and down in altitude before you lost your speed and had to flap. What I'm suggesting is a return to that, which I suspect you'll agree with.
  • SmasherSmasher Join Date: 2005-03-06 Member: 43732Members
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aiOHAaGNXkM#t=75s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...OHAaGNXkM#t=75s</a>
    Just saying :p
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lswBDZuL-8w#t=17s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...wBDZuL-8w#t=17s</a>

    Point being, flyers are agile :p
  • MrGunnerMrGunner Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11757Members, Constellation
    edited February 2012
    Yeah fana that is pretty much what I would like to see as well. As for the weapon thing I would like lerks to be able to kill marines through skilled combat, regardless of what the weapon is. Shooting rapid fire low damage spikes to whittle down single marine while remaining a sitting duck is not skilled combat in any way. It will get you killed by decent marines, thus neutralizing the marines primary weapon and forcing you to get into close range combat and use current low damage alt fire spikes and spores. This will also get you killed by decent marines.

    Also perching, while useful in some situations, is not a buff to spikes in any way. It makes you an even easier target. The only real benefit of it is that you can hide up in nooks out of line of sight of the marines and wait to ambush them or to regen health, like under the res node at overlook on ns_lost.

    Basically spikes suck, and if lerks aren't going to be given a completely different flight model (please god no) they should just be scrapped. They are not fun nor engaging in any way. It would be like if you only allowed jetpackers to wield pistols. Sure they would have increased movement and speed, but they would be gimped by not having very much damage.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
    It's still not as bad as "jetpackers with pistols" because lerks never have to stop flying, and they have much better control over their movement.

    The lerk's flight is extremely fun and rewarding, and basically always has been in NS2. I still maintain that it's the alien 'activity' with the most room for player growth and creativity.

    I also think that spikes can be kept exactly as they are from an abstract design perspective - the problems (for me) are the spores and the 'balance numbers' of spikes (damage, rate of fire, adrenaline cost, accuracy spread...). Tweaking those numbers and making spores less gimmicky would allow us to keep the 'fighter plane' style lerk without it being really weak.

    I'm kinda biased because I didn't really enjoy the lerk's bite much in NS1 - it scaled badly throughout the course of the game, so I just ended up playing a focus fade most of the time anyway.
  • MrGunnerMrGunner Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11757Members, Constellation
    edited February 2012
    Do you just read 2 words of my posts then just post random ###### in reply? The point isn't that the lerk's flight system has problems, because it doesn't. The problem isn't that spikes are too weak or that they can't be tweaked to do better damage. The problem, and the point that I've made in all of my posts that you don't seem to understand, is that having a flight system that flies you in the direction that you are facing means that the only way to shoot marines currently while flying IS TO FLY STRAIGHT AT THEM.

    I really don't think I need to explain why that is a bad thing.

    Also all alien attacks "scaled badly" though the course of them game. That's because they don't scale at all. Most lerks took scent of fear for gassing or focus for countering jetpacks at hive 2 and played accordingly.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    edited February 2012
    Why are you gliding, then? Bite is not a solution to the attacking while flying issue, it just means you close the distance THEN attack. What are you asking for out of the flight system, then? Strafing?

    Re: Perching, roosting, I'm pretty sure that's just a cool feature, and not intended to affect the balance of the game.
  • MrGunnerMrGunner Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11757Members, Constellation
    I personally love the flight system. If spikes are staying as is though it needs to be scrapped and lerks need to be able to fly indepently of where they are aiming.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    edited February 2012
    I don't really understand whether you want spiking from a distance to be viable or not (using something like the current automatic-fire spikes). And actually you can already, to some degree, aim independently of the direction you're flying: Holding space without holding a directional key (non-directional gliding) maintains your altitude (or is it maintaining your direction?) independent of your vertical orientation (pitch). Naturally, I agree that the current flight (or rather, control) system and attack system do not mesh well.

    A shotgun spike as a primary weapon acts like bite (high damage output at close range with a single attack), but is more versatile, has a slightly larger effective range and is far less binary: it's no longer hit or miss, but how well you hit. Naturally, the current shotgun spikes would have to be overhauled to be useful as a bite-like primary weapon; and you could retain the current flight system.

    Another possible change would be to increase the independence of flight direction and aim direction: i.e. you could extend non-directional gliding to not change your yaw (side-to-side rotation) either (i.e. free aim), but I think this actually makes it more difficult to use. Another suggestion I've seen to increase the independence is to have a <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116054" target="_blank">limited free aim</a> (free aim within a box): the lerk's crosshair will move but the lerk will not immediately rotate unless the motion of the crosshair exceeds the bounds of the "free aim box". So by changing the flight/control model in this way, this would make the long-range automatic-fire spikes a somewhat more viable option, it would likely help the shotgun spikes as well.
  • MrGunnerMrGunner Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11757Members, Constellation
    edited February 2012
    Okay one more time. My problem is that lerks currently have a fairly weak ranged single fire attack as their primary attack and it has an alt fire that does a pretty crappy fairly weak shotgun spike thing. The problem with this is that the standard spikes require you to either :

    1) Sit on the ground/ledge/vent/etc and spike while moving around on that surface
    2) Fly in a straight line at marines
    3) Hover in the air and spike while not moving
    4) Perch on a wall

    The problem with all of these is that the marines have better ranged weapons that you do. Which means if they can aim at all you are dead. There really is no refuting this as there is no way that you can trade effectively with any marine at ranged even 1v1. Once the marines start to tech up this is an even larger problem.

    Yes I do agree with your points on the shotgun spikes. Don't really like your thoughts on your aiming idea though as I think that would be quite unintuitive and very hard to pick up for new players.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    which is why lerks need to do a barrel roll.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2012
    How about this? It almost did a barrel roll!

    <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T7FxJiAHMlY"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T7FxJiAHMlY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    What does it look like in third-person?
  • SmasherSmasher Join Date: 2005-03-06 Member: 43732Members
    It looks a lot more responsive, I like it:)
    Also curios what it looks like in 3rd-person
  • BonesXBonesX Join Date: 2007-02-04 Member: 59883Members, Constellation
    I will say that I like the visual effect of the lerks gas now. However, it seems very hard to play it without getting killed. This makes it an almost unplayable class IMO for the newb to avg player. The learning curve on its just to steep unless a player CHOOSES to invest time learning it. far easier to play skulk (whose role is more obvious) then skip to fade/onos later in the game.

    perhaps an alt fire for it that sprays out the gas in front of you in a limited range like a dragons breath attack? This allows you to aim it and also not need to get right in the faces of the rines. The range needs to be limited for this though so it doesn't become spammed in a fight (although doing so from a vent would be hella fun!)

    My other though for it would be to make it into a gas grenade. He could spit a glob of goo (a bit like the Bile Bomb) that would splatter and hiss on the floor and grow into a cloud of gas. Think of it like spitting acid that hissed as it burned something up except that the goo itself does little to no damage- at least not until it started to turn to gas. The Mechanic makes sense from the mythos POV. And this is similar to NS1 except that you arent shooting the gas directly anymore. The time it grows to gas in a defined area give the rines time to get out of it. The sound would be fun and might help hide the sounds of the skulks moving in. i like this idea the best althought the crop dusted effect with sinking gas would be another good choice.
  • internetexplorerinternetexplorer Join Date: 2011-10-13 Member: 127255Members
    edited March 2012
    I think build 202 is an enormous step in the right direction with the lerk. It's incredibly fun to play, and integral to the aliens' overall gameplan (as it should be). I want to give my thoughts on all my original problems with the class, as they stand now.

    <!--quoteo(post=1895340:date=Jan 17 2012, 10:02 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Jan 17 2012, 10:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1895340"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><ol type='1'><li><b>Weapon range/spread/damage is difficult to gauge</b>

    This is mostly solved. The feedback from the crosshair and marine sounds is good, and the visuals for bile bomb are consistent enough that you can get a feel for how it takes on your momentum.
    </li><li><b>Damage scales poorly as the game progresses</b>

    This is mostly solved, too, since the class is more about AOE effects and 'damage over time' in its new role. Bile bomb is always effective because it always eats building health (which you can't raise), and player armor (which doesn't have any sort of damage reduction like alien hide). Gas eats away at health, which again has no hide mechanic and cannot increase past the base value. Spikes damage both, and their damage still scales poorly but that weapon is almost an afterthought now (more on that later).
    </li><li><b>Spores are not useful enough</b>

    This is still a filthy lie, and spores essentially win every game I see in pubs right now.
    </li><li><b>Spores have an extremely low skill ceiling</b>

    This is still true. Because spore clouds are completely opaque, and aliens have nightvision to remove them, they make combat extremely polarized. As soon as any number of teammates work with a sporing lerk, combat is ridiculously easy. I feel dirty when I spore across everything and then bile it as my team cleans up. Please make spores more transparent or <b>reduce their effectiveness at the skill floor</b> in some other way.
    </li><li><b>Movement is very predictable </b>

    Movement is quick enough now that this basically isn't true. There are more incentives to attack from range (spores floating to the ground, bile bomb taking on momentum to cross large distances).
    </li><li><b>Shotguns are too punishing</b>

    This was addressed with damage/range/spread changes (as well as the change to the shell upgrade model for carapace). Shotguns still eat you alive at close range, but there are fewer incentives to go into close range and commit suicide. It's a win-win for our pal the Lerk.
    </li><li><b>The 'shotgun' spike attack has a very low skill ceiling</b>

    What shotgun spike attack? I rest my case.</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The class is so fun right now, and it's so refreshing to see people use it and integrate it into a full-team plan. What's not cool is how powerful spores are.

    It would also be neat if spikes didn't have damage rampup at close range, or their huge accuracy spread. I would love to see a mechanic where their accuracy drops off as you fire continuously (to encourage burst firing as you strafe targets, the same way you lay targeted spores/bile bombs as you strafe targets). It's really annoying when I have to stare someone down and circle him for half an hour to get a kill with spikes, but I don't want spikes to be removed because there's potential for them to be really fun.

    Overall the lerk is in a very good place design-wise with the new "damage over time" role. It's a very good time to be a lerk player. Just don't overreact to people saying it's "more dangerous than the onos" and make it unfun again, okay?
  • mechanicalDRmechanicalDR Join Date: 2012-03-20 Member: 149019Members
    The spread effect of spikes encourages lerks to play gas and bile instead of sniper. Hope it stays.
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members
    I find myself playing as Lerk more often than Gorge, but that's probably temporary (spread the love, I say)!

    I hope the Poison Dart ability will bring back a sniper playstyle with the Lerk, so we can have the best of both worlds.
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