Bile bomb just does too much damage
antacid
Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61821Members, NS2 Playtester
Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61821Members, NS2 Playtester
I had 2 gorges walk in our base vents (where they could not be shot at) and honestly destroy our CC, 2 Infantry portals, armory, phase gate, and arms lab within 10 seconds.
Test it for yourself, the damage on bile bomb is flat out broken at the moment for the amount of range it has.
Test it for yourself, the damage on bile bomb is flat out broken at the moment for the amount of range it has.
Comments
Making the vents close when a CC is built there will probably fix the problem without having the nerf the damage. If it can <b>only</b> destroy a building when it can be seen then make it high priority.
This seems like a good solution.
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Test it for yourself, the damage on bile bomb is flat out broken at the moment for the amount of range it has.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In which base on what level?
I can think of a few..
Atrium and sub in summit
drill repair in mineshaft
Atrium and sub in summit
drill repair in mineshaft<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well there are vents in these locations but its not like the gorges in the locations cant be killed. In drill repair easily without GL. In Atrium its tougher without the GL, but the marines can have the GL ready in time so it should not be a real problem.
For example, maybe an alt fire option of bile bomb is to produce spit that temporarily disables marine structures / corrodes marines' armor, or the lerk gas disrupts the view of sentry turrets so that they are unable to target enemies until it dissipates. Making small changes like these should help the problem of aliens not being good at destroying structures so that the damage and splash radius of bile bomb can be reduced, and aliens naturally will work together to overcome the marines.
I'd also like to see a power restriction option for marines, meaning that they can only build so many structures within the radius of a single power node. This would be like plugging all of your stuff into the same power outlet at home -- eventually you're going to trip the breaker. This mechanic will force marines to base expand in order to build more structures, and also it will prevent turret spam from occurring. So, for instance, you could have 5 or 6 turrets in a room, but nothing else, or you could have 2 turrets, a phase gate, an observatory, an armory, and an arms lab. This way marines don't just sit in their base and build everything up -- which is what happens now, and which is why it is so hard for aliens to end games that go over 20 minutes or so (due to marines having so much crap in their base).
If every area marines are supposed be building more than a random RT has to be safe from bbomb you're seriously limiting the mapper's ability to create varied environments. Losing vents is a shame already, but also any kind of neat ledges and such are gone.
This is part of the reason why I don't like how many random starts there are. In NS1 it's enough that you've got one relatively bbomb proof area, now you need the whole map to be filled with such areas. Either that or nerf bbomb to death.
Bilbe bomb is to strong. Damage output is way to high. maybe it should use alot more energy.
And i think gorge heal is super strong too. Its really super hard to kill a gorge 1on1 just with the rifle or pistol.
But that's also because the onos is currently pretty much useless for his intended role...
I'm more worried about the suggestion of "closing vents and giving mappers guidelines to prevent vents".
The game feels allready way more 2 dimensional in terms of movement and gameplay because the maps feel more crowded with hardly any cool "vent places" to crawl in around. Also doesn't help that marines can't enter quite a few of them -_-
So i don't really like the idea of giving mapping restrictions for balance reasons, mappers should mostly have creative freedom without constantly beeing limited by balance design decissions to work into their maps.
Also place the buildings so, that they can't be biled from to much cover.
The DMG bilebomb does is ok, because it the only alien that actually can Siege (whips are usless without cover and onos is to big). Marines have GL, Arcs and flamers.
But I agree as soon as 2 or more gorges group up with swarm, marines will have some big problems dealing with almost 1k structure DMG per sec.
Also place the buildings so, that they can't be biled from to much cover.
The DMG bilebomb does is ok, because it the only alien that actually can Siege (whips are usless without cover and onos is to big). Marines have GL, Arcs and flamers.
But I agree as soon as 2 or more gorges group up with swarm, marines will have some big problems dealing with almost 1k structure DMG per sec.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The point is that the gorges can now hit the CC SPAWN while under the safety of the vents.
<a href="https://s3.amazonaws.com/satisfaction-production/s3_images/694355/a4b4536d-f4ee-4840-9b41-8b712dc9ee86.jpg?1328481749" target="_blank">https://s3.amazonaws.com/satisfaction-produ....jpg?1328481749</a>
Here is an example
When welders come into the game, bile bomb won't be that scary anymore.
For example, maybe an alt fire option of bile bomb is to produce spit that temporarily disables marine structures / corrodes marines' armor, or the lerk gas disrupts the view of sentry turrets so that they are unable to target enemies until it dissipates. Making small changes like these should help the problem of aliens not being good at destroying structures so that the damage and splash radius of bile bomb can be reduced, and aliens naturally will work together to overcome the marines.
I'd also like to see a power restriction option for marines, meaning that they can only build so many structures within the radius of a single power node. This would be like plugging all of your stuff into the same power outlet at home -- eventually you're going to trip the breaker. This mechanic will force marines to base expand in order to build more structures, and also it will prevent turret spam from occurring. So, for instance, you could have 5 or 6 turrets in a room, but nothing else, or you could have 2 turrets, a phase gate, an observatory, an armory, and an arms lab. This way marines don't just sit in their base and build everything up -- which is what happens now, and which is why it is so hard for aliens to end games that go over 20 minutes or so (due to marines having so much crap in their base).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This post makes so much sense.
The bile bomb is the grenade launcher of the aliens but it does no damage to the marines itself. If marines spam grenades at hive everything dies within seconds, even new spawned players or players evolving into higher lifeforms.
Both "weapons" are available at the same time if the marine comm wants to. And i think it wont be this powerful as soon as the welder is available.
I agree that there shouldnt be a vent which is inaccessable to the marines which allows to shoot savely onto the CC/Powernode. I dont see why there shouldnt be a marine all the time in the base to defend it, it maybe a bit boring most times but marines normaly have only 1 base.
You can sit outside of the room and lobe bombs to the otherside. The range is huge
I agree bile bomb is a bit uber at the moment, but I wanted to make sure that aliens could end stalemates. I think I overdid it though. :) Damage will be reduced somewhat in the next patch.
I second that. Sometimes i'm shocked which buildings i am damaging while bilebombing. The gorge should need to aim.
Is there a damage decrease within the radius? I mean does is the damage lower on the end of the radius then on the center? This could also be a good addition, to decreasing the radius.
Is there a damage decrease within the radius? I mean does is the damage lower on the end of the radius then on the center? This could also be a good addition, to decreasing the radius.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, it does decrease with radius. not enough though.
It should be geared toward skillful usage - lobbing it from long distances at high angles, 'bouncing' the bile spray off walls behind structures to exploit sentry angles etc. To be honest, it's close to that now and just needs some numbers tweaks.
<!--quoteo(post=1901097:date=Feb 8 2012, 08:13 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Feb 8 2012, 08:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1901097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was doing a test with Bilebomb on rockdown, and I found out after destroying the CC from out of the room, with full in the face hits, the Extractor to it's rear and left, which to my mind was to far from the cc for damage was down to 60%, that tells me the radius is a bit too big, also a direct hit on the cc takes off 4% health. Thats 25 shots from a single gorge, but only 12 & 13 each from 2 gorges, that is not a lot of time at all :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The CC is too weak relative to other structures (and should cost more than 20 res to build). I still think the proper solution to lerk rushing was to just make the CC take more damage...coincidentally it addresses this issue!
only problem i see really is the distance a gorge can bilebomb from... half the time they dont even need to be in your base lol.. splash radius and dmg is fine, but the gorge is trying to be a long-ranged siege class... in ns1 u'd lose gorges in bb rushes but they still worked, you just have to get closer
OR
Increase the HP on *some* of the buildings (not turrets, not IPs) so that taking out bases can be done with alien troops, rather than purely just gorges.
edit: OR increase cooldown on BB. Something to slow the destruction down to give time to react, anyway.
There is NO defense from gorge BB rush
Coming from someone who had 2 bases for 60 minutes being constantly BB'd and gorge rushed (losing a lot, but managing to beacon/defend/repair/rebuild base until finally the aliens got 3 gorges at once (presumably with swarm) and not even a full marine team could stop that.