Admin Priveledges...

8of12BORG · December 2002

Hello everyone. I dont post here unless I think it is important to the community. I have a topic that I think needs some looking into by the people who created this cool mod.

We all know about all the admin mod programs out there. Ones that allow cool text to be displayed and what-not.

Well, here's my question to the PLAYERS of NS and the CREATORS... not directed towards admins whether they play or not:

Do you think that this is fair:
Admins who are at their server and playing a game with other people using some kind of adminmod or whatever to be able to hear EVERYONES chat and radio messages. They can see your text, and hear your voice while they are on the other team. I don't quite think this is fair and I think the creators of NS should (if they can) make it so that any add-ons to servers will not allow this. Not only is it not fair, but it is very decietful.

Now, if they dont play the game and they are just there to check up on their server, maybe thats ok, but definetly not while playing. I don't want the other team to hear me saying "ok, I am in the Generator Hive, send me a TF"... or "I am right outside Marine Spawn and I am all alone, I need backup".

May I have your opinions on this everyone? In my opinion, it is just flat out CHEATING and I don't like it. Player Version 1.0 and already there's people cheating...

8of12[BORG] <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

Ph0enix · December 2002

I presume theres a question here somewhere but I can't see it ? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Dan_Forever · December 2002

I'm sure theres another two thirds of that to come probably...

A young post, cut off in it's prime like a rabid dog <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

8of12BORG · December 2002

*oops* Sorry, didn't mean to do that, look up to find the rest of the post. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

Thansal · December 2002

meh, if admins feel the urge to cheat on their own servers, they will simply find that they are out of people to play with, there is nothing we, nor Flay, could do about this, other then boycoting servers we don't like

thats all

Moebius · December 2002

Cheating is bad, of course it isn't fair. Adminmod is a convenience for some admins who don't know how to use rcon, but for some players it is a bad thing, adminmod users can destroy your config.cfg, teleport you somewhere you don't want and basically ruin the game, I tend not play on servers that people do stuff like that, and I would much rather play on a server without adminmod than one with it.

8of12BORG · December 2002

I dunno man, there's like 2000+ servers out there, and I noticed that A LOT of them use this. The typical argument pops up every other game about who's gonna be the gorge or who's gonna be the commander, or whatever, and suddenly, admin pops in knowing everything that was said and then says to just hush up and play. NOTE that when I say "admin pops in" I mean a person who is currently playing on the other team, NOT someone outside the game.

Will anyone be upset or will I be breaking a rule if I post the name and IP of the server hwo's admins use this?... Just imagine if you and your clan or even just you and people you don't even know join that server and the whole other team is admins and they can see and hear EVERYTHING your team says when making plans and what-not... planning, strategy, organization, teamwork and good leadership is all lost when this adminmod is used, and all this stated here is the name of the game for NS in my opinion.

coil · December 2002

*shrugs* There's not much to be done about it. Yes, it's lame; no, these people don't really deserve admin power. What can you do? As said, don't play on servers with abusive admins. AdminMod used *well* is a very helpful tool for server administration, and not supporting it would be a pretty foolish move on the part of the NS developers.

8of12BORG · December 2002

I have had rcon at the same servers for about the last four years and not ran into any problems like this. I kick the punks who dont play nice, and I ban the cheaters. Thats all you need to do to run a server. I dont see ANY use for this specific tool *COUGH EXPLOIT* besides cheating. If the other player and I would have not had a dispute in the server, where I was called a name for no reason, the admin would have probably never let me know he could hear us and continued on with his game, knowing every move I made. That is unfair. That is cheating. Yeah, adminmods have SOME cool stuff, but I think that the smart thing to do here is to get rid of the ability to do this. There's programs out there like Half-Life Server Watch that you can monitor EVERYTHING in a server without being in the game at all. IT'S A CHEAT! IT'S JUST ANOTHER EXPLOIT! THERE'S NO USE OR NEED FOR IT WHATSOEVER UNLESS YOU WANT TO CHEAT AT YOUR SERVER!

8of12BORG · December 2002

I know there's alotta posts here but I would like permission from the administrator to post the IP I was at here so that others who don't like this can be forewarned. So far, although there hasn't been many posts, no one has said they like the ability of admins who are players to be able to hear and read everything.

EDIT: typo <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>

VIRUSKILLERNS · December 2002

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> Yes! Hi all!! Fun game and love it!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'> Got my first taste of a new adminmod feature..................
Where u can read ALL player texts,(ingame) and read all text!!
I agree with 8 of 12 --This is cheating!! Left a bad taste TOO!!

Can we fix it?<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'>
Thnx, KILLER

Insidious · December 2002

There's a lot of claims that adminmod and the like are only useful for cheating. It's true it can be used for cheating, but that's an unpleasant side effect of unpleasant people, not of a useless tool. Adminmod does have useful features that get put to good use (limited rcon access for example, so the owner of the server can recruite people to moniter the server while playing for problem players, without giving that person the ability to total *&$% up your server, or swear filters, which like 'em or not, are popular with many admins). I'd like to point out that some people are making some leaps of faith, saying that because they saw an rcon message that clearly ment an admin heard what they said, that doesn't mean the admin is on the other team. There are remote server monitoring programs so you can keep an eye on text without even being in game, or it could be some unknown person with rcon access on your own team, not a cheater.

And like them or not, the people who run servers like them. If NS activly tries to deny people the ability to monitor their own servers, people are going to get ticked off. Players ultimatly have the power - you can leave, the admin can't make you stay. If it's a problem, tell them so, try and convince a few people to come with you, and go.

uranium_235 · December 2002

Why does an admin need to be omniscent and all-knowing? If you have a beef that you don't like someone's language or how they're talking, why should everyone have to bend over bassackwards to a swear filter, etc. because of you? If you don't like what's happening, you don't need 14 admins there to Nuke your whole team when the teams are unbalanced, you need to just leave it to natural selection. Let the bitchy whiny players leave.

WaffleHouseNinja · December 2002

To me its obivisuly cheating, admins shouldnt be able to hear what is going for the other team, just makes it more unfair for the other team. The admin shouldnt even do this b/c it shows that thier clan (if its a clan server)can handle the preasure of not knowing whats comin from the other team. But if it was my server I would just say its my server and Ill do what I want to do, if you dont like leave then. But I would never cheat so that it would put me in a upper hand of whats goin on.

p4Prospero · December 2002

Like in any online game, the servers you play on make and break the experience. Choose carefully. There are a lot of admins that use their powers of omnisense in order to admin fairly and to keep on top of trouble players. The CS community has had admins using this stuff for a long time now, and all is mostly well.

Prosp

8of12BORG · December 2002

Ok, I need to agree with a few and disagree with a few.

I dont think that it is useful at all for a player to be able to hear/see the other teams chat/text. Whether you like it or not, it is cheating. If the admin wasn't reading/hearing everything being written/said, then why would he have it on? In order for an admin to see/hear you do something bad, he (or she) has to be reading all that he can and listening to all that he can, and in doing so, will also learn what hive a team may be going to siege or what location a marine needs to go to or whatever. It is a downright cheat 99% of the time. I may not have been playing Half-Life as long as many of you, but I have a couple years in and I have even more years in other games and mods - I know that a large percent of people out there will use adminmods like this for cheating purposes. It's the nature of the beast. We all know how overrun the gaming coimmunity is by cheaters. I just think that if the next version of NS had this adminmod tool disabled or not working somehow, it would make the game more fun. You can use Half-Life Server Watch to see what people are saying when you are OUT of the game. That in my opinion is the only time a person whould be able to read both teams "teamchat". Anyone who shoots down the idea of using A seperate program outside of Half-Life in order to monitor their server is probably either cheating, lazy or both. I dont think the actual true percentage of admins who can read the other teams chat when it is ONLY abusive/harrassing is very high at all.

Bottom line, no one playing a game needs to hear the other teams chat. If you need to monitor chat and handle a punk, then use a different program. If you are too lazy to do that, sorry for saying, but I don't think you should have admin priveledges because easedropping is not a good way to keep things fair.

Yes, I do have to either obide by server rules or not play there. But if all servers will be run like this, then I dont think there will be as many NS players left soon. I am not the first one to mention this while ingame either. I have ruin into this problem numerous times.

Does anyone have any input here about what they think the NS Team should do? Keep in mind, I would like to hear from the players, not the server operators/owners/admins, because without the happy players, there wont be a need for operators/owners/admins.

Sorry for any typo's I am tired and I wanna go play NS. We need a Sleepy Smiley.

Katsuro · December 2002

Heres a tip children: Write protect your config.cfg

Keeps admins from rewriting your config. If they change your binds like a little f@607, then hit escape, then resume. It re-execs your write protected config binding your keys to the appropriate thing.

Admin mods are excellent for helping keep a server good. Instant restart on crash, map voting, llama booting and such. But when its used to abuse a player who was doing better than the admin (as i saw tonight) by flinging him around and killing him, then its lame.

And when choosing a server, remember my sig (see below \/ ).

8of12BORG · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Katsuro @ Dec 17 2002, 11:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Heres a tip children: Write protect your config.cfg

Keeps admins from rewriting your config. If they change your binds like a little f@607, then hit escape, then resume. It re-execs your write protected config binding your keys to the appropriate thing.

And when choosing a server, remember my sig (see below \/ ).</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
My cfg IS write protected, and I have copies. I am not worried about that.

Heck, I can even deal with the occasional spammed admin slap, when I am winning that is... but I can't stand the cheaters.

I would like to know how to identify a server that uses this adminmod so I dont ever play on them. If I cannot get everyone to rally here and stop this madness, then I can at least avoid the admin abusers out there who ruin things for people and the people don't even know it. They just think that they are being beaten by some highly skilled players when in reality, it could be a group of people who dont even know their CC is cheating and they are just following orders... I am thinking about starting a website too that will list servers that use this adminmod. The actual owner of the server may be good in heart and trustworthy about this, but I don't think that all of his admins would be.

Catgirl · December 2002

Server rules: "admin_mod_version"

8of12BORG · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Catgirl @ Dec 17 2002, 11:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Server rules: "admin_mod_version"</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
thanks
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Hang_Loose · December 2002

Hahahahah, it all depends on who is running the server, and who he chooses as his admins really. Responsible admins will ignore the text, unless it's really loud, like say, someone flooding team chat, or carrying on with some immature comments. Is it cheating? Well, it can be, but it's just a tool really, like a crowbar. A crowbar can be useful for prying open doors or loosening boards in your house, well a crowbar can be used to break into other people's cars too. Good, bad... it's up to the user.

Destro · December 2002

Hang Loose LIES LIES

Hang_Loose · December 2002

Shhh, do not let them know! They will believe me!

(do not comprimise the mission)

Akfeka · December 2002

Admin mod does not display all text by default. That is something a person does on their own. Our server is using admin mod, and I have never listened to what the other team is saying. The person that was using the function to cheat was an individual, not the community as a whole. Most of the servers I have ever played on don't have abusive admins. Rather than trying to stop people from using admin mod (which you will not acomplish) why don't you play on other servers? They exist. They exist all over the place.

"Protecting" Natural Selection from admin mod would require quite a bit of work, and I'd rather see balance changes and additions to the game. Abusive admins quickly find that people don't play on their server. At least, regulars don't, and as far as I'm concerned, that is one of the most important parts of online gaming - playing with people you know (if only through the game). Abusive admin don't get that.

Vimstl · December 2002

The term should not be admin privileges, it should be <i>Admin Responsibilities</i>. NS is a hobby, we play it for fun. If the server admin is irresponsible, there is not very much the community can do other than <i>vote with their feet.</i> Every time I log on to NS, I get a couple dozen servers with ping times under 100 to choose from. I know the servers I like, and I know the servers I wouldn't touch with my 10 foot pole (sorry, that's bragging).

I am happy to report that in many, many games of NS I have only had an abusive admin once or twice.

As for admins using their admin capabilities to cheat, I catagorize that with any other cheats (wall hack, aimbots, etc) What's the point? It must get boring after a while. I love the creepy feeling of not knowing whether or not an opponent is in the next compartment, listening for the sound of footfalls or toenail scrapes.

Consider 2 things: 90% of statistics are made up on the spot, and 90% of NS players are funloving, decent chaps just like you (and me, I hope). Don't let a few dorks get you down

8of12BORG · December 2002

Well, I can see that there are many people out there that are good hearted players just like myself, and thats good to know. True, now that I think about it, I don't think I'd ever get anything passed to have that unavailable for NS. Also, thanks for letting me know that you can toggle the ability to listen to the other team. I also didn't know that. Guess that makes this one particular guy a REAL lamer. I guess I just got really hot when I said I wouldn't play anymore... but I do filter out the servers with that adminmod. I havce asked around while ingame in the last couple days whether or not you can use "ClanMod" as a cheat in this way and everyone told me that cClanMod is safe... which is good, because there's alotta those out there... In fact, I only found about 2 out of 10 in the best 100 servers of mine that used this "admin_mod_version 2.50.50(MM)" thing. I have no idea which one it is, but I really don't care. I just won't play there no more. I am less of a trusting person than most though I guess. It's hard for me to trust people these days.

Anyways, thanks for not jumping into this post and trying to cuss at me because I was upset about all this. I am still bothered that others are the victims of that lame admin mod that actually HAS to have that feature manually turned on in order for it to work... but oh well, it's not me anymore.

"admin_mod_version 2.50.50(MM)" = possible cheating admins who wont identify themselves while ingame and just sit there and spy on you while you play... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

VIRUSKILLERNS · March 2003

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> Does NS have a MUTE?<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'> Some people don't___want to hear your, Rap/spazz music!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'> Especially when, HEARING a MARINE coming!!! Oops---DON"T Hear'em <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'> Let's hear Your thoughts people>>>>>

Admin Priveledges...

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