[193] Riflebutt
swalk
Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<div class="IPBDescription">Longer range than skulk bite</div>The current riflebut is very powerful, and I would say it sways the basic skulk vs rifle balance towards the rifle's favor.
This is mostly because riflebut does 35 damage, knocks skulks away, blurs their screen, stuns their movement.
And the fact that riflebut range is longer is skulk bite.
I think riflebut should be changed to do 10 damage, knock airborne skulks away, and range should be shorter than skulk bite, obviously.
I would like to see blur and stun go, as it's no fun getting stunned and being unable to move.
Especially since you rely on melee attacks as skulk.
This is mostly because riflebut does 35 damage, knocks skulks away, blurs their screen, stuns their movement.
And the fact that riflebut range is longer is skulk bite.
I think riflebut should be changed to do 10 damage, knock airborne skulks away, and range should be shorter than skulk bite, obviously.
I would like to see blur and stun go, as it's no fun getting stunned and being unable to move.
Especially since you rely on melee attacks as skulk.
Comments
Getting the riflebutt hit can be more tricky than getting the bite as a skulk, If the rest of the things about riflebutt get a nerf (which they do need) then the range should stay as it is.
Getting the riflebutt hit can be more tricky than getting the bite as a skulk, If the rest of the things about riflebutt get a nerf (which they do need) then the range should stay as it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The range is a problem as well, the skulks need to be able to make at least 1 bite before they get knocked away.
It's very easy(easier than bite, due to range) to use riflebut in it's current state, and it is way too powerful.
Also the cooldown is very short in this patch, which makes it even more powerful.
Riflebut should be a weak last resort attack, instead of a reliable way to finish skulks you couldn't outaim.
well, it's inherently strong through versatility, because you don't have to spend time switching weapons to use it. why, then, should it do more damage than the axe and have a bazillion on-hit effects too? seems like it's a bit much for a team that isn't supposed to make much use of melee attacks.
well, it's inherently strong through versatility, because you don't have to spend time switching weapons to use it. why, then should it do more damage than the axe and have a bazillion on-hit effects too? seems like it's a bit much for a team that isn't supposed to make much use of melee attacks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be useful in the situation where you have no ammo in your rifle, and you have a teammate covering you. And a skulk attacks you.
If you successfully knocks the skulk back, the skulk will most likely be dead because of the new distance the skulk have to close.
Getting the riflebutt hit can be more tricky than getting the bite as a skulk, If the rest of the things about riflebutt get a nerf (which they do need) then the range should stay as it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the damage is slightly too high. Reducing rifle butt damage to 25 would mean 4 to 5 hits to kill a Skulk.
The range is fine, as the small delay makes landing a Rifle butt hit more difficult. The Marine is unable to shoot for 0.7 seconds after using Rifle melee. Skulk is easily capable of biting the Marine twice in that time (if he doesn't begin jumping around like an Energizer bunny...).
speaking of said sneaky behavior, why cant i hear the clankity clank of skulk claws on metal floors anymore? its just silent movement everywhere they go?? ns1 used to have very distinct sounds which led to a much more immersive, anxiety driven gameplay. imho ofc
Really? Isn't NS2 already leaning far too much on the whole camping-in-the-darkness bit for skulks? Building up speed and storming down a hallway directly into a marine was a fun game-mechanic in NS1. I say we have enough sneaking-around crap as it stands. Stop trying to make skulks as unfun as possible, nobody will want to be playing it.
i completely disagree and my opinion is 100% opposite
I think the rifle butt might develop to pretty nasty once people have good enough performance and timing to regularly abuse the range advantage. Combine that with a commander that can drop a med or two on most fights and you've got ridiculous amount of nearly guaranteed hits against skulks.
The Riflebutt should be very powerfull against a skulk/lerk.
It has the size of a dog and no ultra thick skin.
Currently you just need 8 or 9 rifle bullet hits then a knock back when the skulk is close enough. A couple of quick bursts to the skulk as he comes down the hall, and then stop shooting and wait for them to get in range. Like lambs to the slaughter :)
To be fair, skulks bouncing all over the place are a lot harder to hit. Maybe the problem isn't the power of rifle-butt, it's the fact that skulks don't do anything other than run straight at the marines? In which case the marines should win every time against the skulks approach.
The range is fine, as the small delay makes landing a Rifle butt hit more difficult. The Marine is unable to shoot for 0.7 seconds after using Rifle melee. Skulk is easily capable of biting the Marine twice in that time (if he doesn't begin jumping around like an Energizer bunny...).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you hit with a riflebut(and make a knockback), the skulk will usually not be able to get any more bites on the marine.
Because when that 0.7 second is over, the skulk is usually stunned/blurred a few meters from the marine, and he can easily finish it off.
I really think the stun and blur should be removed from riflebut, and the range should be shorter than bite.
If it was this way, riflebut could still be used as a skill against not-so-sneaky skulks when you're out of ammo.
But he should be able to get at least 1 bite in, if you're out of ammo.
And not be outplayed by marine melee being longer range than alien melee. Isn't the aliens supposed to rely on melee, people?
Because when that 0.7 second is over, the skulk is usually stunned/blurred a few meters from the marine, and he can easily finish it off.
I really think the stun and blur should be removed from riflebut, and the range should be shorter than bite.
If it was this way, riflebut could still be used as a skill against not-so-sneaky skulks when you're out of ammo.
But he should be able to get at least 1 bite in, if you're out of ammo.
And not be outplayed by marine melee being longer range than alien melee. Isn't the aliens supposed to rely on melee, people?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And we should keep it that way.
The skulk CLASS is build for "stealth" kills.
W8 for the marine outside the HQ and ambush him with the leap.
Its like a NINJA!
The skulk CLASS is build for "stealth" kills.
W8 for the marine outside the HQ and ambush him with the leap.
Its like a NINJA!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Horse######. Camping\hiding is very beneficial to a skulks chances, but it certainly is NOT the only trick in it's bag. It can move at incredible speeds (in particular when deployed with celerity). The reason the stealth-argument is so very upplayed is because the current maps (or rather map, summit), only favors that kind of play (and does it very strongly with its darkness, elaborate ceilings and cracks) and does not allow for large speed build-ups (presumably if the skulk will ever be able to in NS2).
If people think the skulk's gimped movement as it is now is A-ok come v1.0, we'll have a pro-mod on our hands faster than you can say Fall 2009.
I guess I would make it do less damage (20 instead of 30), make it less spammable (so basically you have one shot if you don't hit), but I'd like to see it stun lerks if hit mid-air. They totally deserve that for sweeping past you.
If NS2 was a game with say, 6 marines and 3 aliens and each side had a finite number of lives, then ambush would be a prevalent style of play (probably the only style) but it's not. If marines suddenly attack reactor and you're in crossroads, you shouldn't have to run to alien start and try and set up an ambush because you can't approach directly in reactor. You should be able to go to reactor and fight.
The darkness and ceilings are great opportunities, but that's all they should be. The moment they become requirements for play they cease being options and start being givens and then you're unable to do anything but hope marines are too lazy to look up.
<u></u>Stealth should be a way to improve the odds, it should never be required in an NS2 type game to EVEN the odds.<b></b>
If NS2 was a game with say, 6 marines and 3 aliens and each side had a finite number of lives, then ambush would be a prevalent style of play (probably the only style) but it's not. If marines suddenly attack reactor and you're in crossroads, you shouldn't have to run to alien start and try and set up an ambush because you can't approach directly in reactor. You should be able to go to reactor and fight.
The darkness and ceilings are great opportunities, but that's all they should be. The moment they become requirements for play they cease being options and start being givens and then you're unable to do anything but hope marines are too lazy to look up.
<u></u>Stealth should be a way to improve the odds, it should never be required in an NS2 type game to EVEN the odds.<b></b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remember the SKULK is just "phase 1".
It cant have everythign and i think it works FINE as a scout/ninja.
Its fast and can harras all over the map. What do u people expect from it? Be a tank? No its a "scout" that can ambush players.
It cant have everythign and i think it works FINE as a scout/ninja.
Its fast and can harras all over the map. What do u people expect from it? Be a tank? No its a "scout" that can ambush players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It already can outmove people's aim, due to increased speeds from walljumping, needs to be more reliable though.
The skulk is a class used throughout the entire game, it's very good at taking down extractors.
The skulk is not a complete ambush class, if that's the way you're playing it, you're playing it wrong.
Hiding and ambushing is something you can do to increase your chances of getting the kill.
The skulk is a class used throughout the entire game, it's very good at taking down extractors.
The skulk is not a complete ambush class, if that's the way you're playing it, you're playing it wrong.
Hiding and ambushing is something you can do to increase your chances of getting the kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then explain how should i play it?
When i play skulk i harras and destroy the extractors & w8 for my ambush kill.
and have a longer cooldown so it isn't spammed...marines should not be able to juggle skulks.
I like the idea that marines are given a last ditch effort.
I don't like the idea that marines have a default melee which is competitive to skulk bite.
The whole idea is ranged vs. melee right?
One of the most promising things about riflebutt is that it gives Marines something to do when they're getting chomped. Make it skill-based and prevent it from working in the air (and maybe a short pause after landing, too), and UWE just might be able to kill HSS*
<i>*Gorge scientists still don't know exactly what causes Hopping Snack Syndrome, but experts agree it's the worst plague to affect crunchy meatpops since the great pistol imbalance of 188.</i>
Once we get exo/ha + welders the only thing im going to be using is rifle butt.
Not so much the knockback as much as the dps. Its actually 35 damage which is almost half skulk hp.
*All this talk about rifle butt and i forgot to mention, UWE really needs to fix how melee targets are detected. I hate getting randomly rifle butted by marines not even facing my direction. Likewise goes for riflbutting a skulk in my face but hitting the rocks behind me or some other.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfMYspR1_7w" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfMYspR1_7w</a>
Even in PCWs I still find rifle butt (and even axe) incredibly powerful, especially when you have a commander that can med effectively.
I personally think the rifle butt would be fine with equal range to skulk bite, the same damage as now and just a slight disruption to alien vision. Even in this form I would still use it when skulks get close in PcWs. It works fantastically to finish skulks off as they close to melee with you (and in this situation is easy to time correctly). It is also still useful in general melee, while jumping for your life with meds around.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfMYspR1_7w" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfMYspR1_7w</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its because your skulk model doesnt move in sync with your first person view(especially while jumping)... while it looked for you he coudnt have hit you - he could have perfectly hit you in the side of your model, since you were very close...
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116085&view=findpost&p=1898209" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1898209</a>
The skulk is a class used throughout the entire game, it's very good at taking down extractors.
The skulk is not a complete ambush class, if that's the way you're playing it, you're playing it wrong.
Hiding and ambushing is something you can do to increase your chances of getting the kill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with swalk, the skulk is no "only phase1" lifeform since the aliens require pres to change their lifeform. Marines get permanent updates on damage and amor, they can also pick up the weapons of dead marines or even their own when their fast enough.
I'll wonder what it will be like when the Jetpack and Exoskeleton comes in. They will cost pres aswell like the lifeforms of the aliens but trying to kill a Jetpacker as skulk was already pretty anoying in NS1. And since aliens wont be able to pickup the weapons they have to fight as skulk till they have enough resources to go a higher lifeform.
Rest assured the beginning of the game is NOT supposed to be "marines walk around with huge sightlines and the aliens struggle to hide around corners where their bodies stuck out like a sore thumb"
If someone is so terrible with the marines that he can't hit me with a single bullet, and I get into melee range to bite him, the game shouldn't be saying "don't worry, you have a better melee attack than the skulk." It's downright silly! This isn't even a far-fetched idea - it's actually going on a lot in pubs right now, and it's probably why the OP felt compelled to post this thread.