Marine Armor Upgrade Useless?
cake.
Join Date: 2012-01-12 Member: 140165Members
Join Date: 2012-01-12 Member: 140165Members
I don't know if this topic has been discussed before but, is there any point to armor upgrades for marines? From where i'm standing it seems to me that it takes 3 bites for the skulk to take down a marine without armor upgrades and 3 with full armor upgrades... Or at least with the 2nd tier, because 193 games don't usually last that long in my experience. It takes 2 swipes to kill a marine no matter what as a fade, that's completely understandable, when the onos gets in, its going to be probably 1 hit kill, the gorge doesnt usually get in 1v1 combat, and the lerk fires spikes at a rate of what, 5 spikes/sec? So, who is that upgrade for?
Correct me if i'm wrong on this one please, I am in no way bashing on anyone here. But shouldn't a feature that costs (altogether) somewhere around 60-70 res, be more efficient?
As i said, this is just my opinion based on experience, and my experience... has been pretty poor in the past few builds. Practically no enhancement in performance, except for the early game. So maybe it seems like that due to my low fps. Or maybe some stuff regarding this issue changed in some build and i missed it.
Correct me if i'm wrong on this one please, I am in no way bashing on anyone here. But shouldn't a feature that costs (altogether) somewhere around 60-70 res, be more efficient?
As i said, this is just my opinion based on experience, and my experience... has been pretty poor in the past few builds. Practically no enhancement in performance, except for the early game. So maybe it seems like that due to my low fps. Or maybe some stuff regarding this issue changed in some build and i missed it.
Comments
Correct me if i'm wrong on this one please, I am in no way bashing on anyone here. But shouldn't a feature that costs (altogether) somewhere around 60-70 res, be more efficient?
As i said, this is just my opinion based on experience, and my experience... has been pretty poor in the past few builds. Practically no enhancement in performance, except for the early game. So maybe it seems like that due to my low fps. Or maybe some stuff regarding this issue changed in some build and i missed it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its gonna be adjusted as the game goes, but they are vital. In ns1 they would save you in many certain death scenarios. They also absorb spore dmg and other aoe:s that might come. Its really hard to kill 3 a marine whit spikes ( if you can put those shells in the lerkalerk). Fade is kinda overpovered now, but as i have said we dont know how the marines PL tech is gonna play out.
[Edit] And i forgot to mention the welders when you can restock your buddies armor. Imagine the Heavy armor squad whit welders fighting in corridor and healing each other as they take dmg. When welders will come to play, they are gonna make armor ups far more effective.
Armour 1 is mostly useless* for now because skulk parasite useless, except as a stepping stone for armour 2. Armour 2 is important because it makes fade 3 swipe instead of 2 which boost your shotgun marines very much so they can shoot the fade more times. Armour 3 is important because it makes skulk nom nom nom nom and lerk becomes tickle bat. When parasite is fixed, armour 1 will become very very important because then skulks cannot hiss nom nom but have to nom nom nom so your marines will not die quickly.
*Armour 1 is useful against combat gorge and flying bats but weapon 1 probably better if your marine are doing the pew pew very well and killing all their harvester.
Armour 1 is mostly useless* for now because skulk parasite useless, except as a stepping stone for armour 2. Armour 2 is important because it makes fade 3 swipe instead of 2 which boost your shotgun marines very much so they can shoot the fade more times. Armour 3 is important because it makes skulk nom nom nom nom and lerk becomes tickle bat. When parasite is fixed, armour 1 will become very very important because then skulks cannot hiss nom nom but have to nom nom nom so your marines will not die quickly.
*Armour 1 is useful against combat gorge and flying bats but weapon 1 probably better if your marine are doing the pew pew very well and killing all their harvester.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, i dont know if we're playing the same game, cz i, playing as skulk never needed 4 bites to kill a lvl3 marine (in builds 19~, but then again, the hit registration isnt working out too well for me either). About the fade swipe, you might be right, i cannot disprove that, haven't played much fade since 191, because right now fade is simply ridiculous... Better, since fades actually die now and they feel quite balanced imo, but with the marine condition where it currently is, fade is just overkill And the lerk, as i said, lerk shoots so many spikes a second that those upgrades don't really change anything that much, once again, in my experience.
oh ok, but i urge you to try with a friend or someone :). Those marine you nom probably did not have armour 3 or they already damaged by your team mates. you will see what i mean. Lerks do light damage which does very little to armour so lerk can fly around your head and try spike you for long time and if you jump well you will not die before he run away or you kill him hopefully.
To play against fade you will get used to it after a while how the fade move and how to try dodge him. But whether or not he is OP, armour 2 is very very important if you cannot stop 2nd hive!! Allow shotgun marine to shoot 3-4 times maybe instead of only 1-2 before dying. Your marine die less to fade mean you can pressure more!
To play against fade you will get used to it after a while how the fade move and how to try dodge him. But whether or not he is OP, armour 2 is very very important if you cannot stop 2nd hive!! Allow shotgun marine to shoot 3-4 times maybe instead of only 1-2 before dying. Your marine die less to fade mean you can pressure more!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still do not agree with you on the skulk and lerk. 3 bites, and marines are down. And about the lerk, well, i never have trouble killing marines, no matter how late in the game, well except if i get caught up close with a shotty or a grenade to the face. I just came from a game where a lerk had a 24/7 kd. Anyway, all these things will change later in the builds, when performance becomes better (i hope) and most importantly the mouse responsiveness which is by far the biggest issue for me right now.
I just needed some opinions, so that i know what to do when commanding. And since people seem to have a different opinion to mine, i guess ill be giving them armor...
But sure public play is a whole different deal because people will waste like 5 minutes before building the first hive etc.
I dont want to spam this thread up with my own opinion or anything, but i feel the need to convince you that armour 3 makes skulks 4 bite :p. Here is the math.
Armour 3 marine 100 hp 75 armour.
This equals 100+75*2 = 250 effective hp.
Skulk does 75 damage per bite
So 250/75 = 3.333 reoccuring ofcourse. This means that it will take 4 bites to kill.
Alternatively, with nanoshield it is
250/37.5 = 6.666. This means it will take 7 bites to kill and 99999 bites to kill if you medpack him as well.
250/37.5 = 6.666. This means it will take 7 bites to kill and roughly (Commander's P-res/2) bites to kill if you medpack him as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fixed
But I still very much dislike the nerf on all Armor Upgrades, prior to 192 Armor Upgrades were 20/40/60 additional Armor, now its 15/30/45 which is a damn lot imho and renders Armor upgrades quite useless as of now, most of the Time you simply get Weapon ups as fast as you can and GL or SG rush down a hive to block more fades from evolving.
It just makes your marines generally more durable, chances are they will accumulate a few scrapes as they move through the level, be it stray lerk spikes, gorge spits, parasites, hydra spikes, whip thwacks, own-grenades-to-face, whatever.
More armor means they can keep taking those scrapes for longer, marines generally won't be going from full health to dead much of the time, they'll be going from slightly damaged to dead, or full health to almost dead, and then getting healed a bit, or damaged a bit more, or have their armor repaired.
Just having more health (for free, for every marine, once you put down the initial cost) is always good, basically.
Correct me if i'm wrong on this one please, I am in no way bashing on anyone here. But shouldn't a feature that costs (altogether) somewhere around 60-70 res, be more efficient?
As i said, this is just my opinion based on experience, and my experience... has been pretty poor in the past few builds. Practically no enhancement in performance, except for the early game. So maybe it seems like that due to my low fps. Or maybe some stuff regarding this issue changed in some build and i missed it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think your perception is off. I can tell you for a fact that it takes more then 2 bites to kill an armored marine. Against a shotty marine I have one hell of a time getting a registered second bite, especially when they are bunny hopping. If I try to pinpoint his landing for the second bite I usually get creamed by a shotty blast... I can only assume the spread on a shotty is fairly big.
Also as a fade I got blasted by a shotty marine and I know I swiped him twice for sure. Two blasts from his shotty and I was down.