Aren't Cysts too big and awkward?
Classic319
Join Date: 2010-11-06 Member: 74789Members
Join Date: 2010-11-06 Member: 74789Members
<div class="IPBDescription">my opinion</div>
Idea of cyst works well, look fine, but don't you think that the CYSTS are too big and not that much fit to infestation?
As i said, as a fan of Company of Heroes, i LOVE the idea of cyst chain, but the problem is, for me, especially as alien side, it looks a bit awkward. It disturbs good alien-atmosphere i think.
I know you think that those orange-color would gonna fit with Hydras or something, but Cysts are all about Infestations. It's way too clean and too bright. For me, it doesn't fit at all.
Just a tiny-black hole or pot belly(of infestation) at the middle of infestation would look much better in my opinion.
How do you think?
Idea of cyst works well, look fine, but don't you think that the CYSTS are too big and not that much fit to infestation?
As i said, as a fan of Company of Heroes, i LOVE the idea of cyst chain, but the problem is, for me, especially as alien side, it looks a bit awkward. It disturbs good alien-atmosphere i think.
I know you think that those orange-color would gonna fit with Hydras or something, but Cysts are all about Infestations. It's way too clean and too bright. For me, it doesn't fit at all.
Just a tiny-black hole or pot belly(of infestation) at the middle of infestation would look much better in my opinion.
How do you think?
Comments
I too am not a huge fan of the cyst's looks. However, the bright look of cysts really does help them stand out as important targets, especially to new players. This could probably be accomplished in other ways though.
Personally, I would love to see cysts replaced with long tendrils directly connected to the hive. I mean seriously, the hive has these big tendrils, but only uses them to smash a grate? To me, those tendrils are the natural way the hive would spread infestation around the map.
Game play wise, the switch would basically be an aesthetic one. I would expect the tendrils to work exactly like the cysts, except that the infestation provided wouldn't be in circular blobs around cysts. It would extend away from the sides and ends of the tendril like a super long, bent (corners and such) oval with the tendril as the center line.
I remember hearing that cysts will eventually have connection tendrils. I still say ditch the cysts. People are smart enough to shoot the tendril any where along its length to break it. The cysts just turn the territory control meta game into whack a mole.......
The marine team can't exactly drop 3 RTs at the same time as a getting shotguns and armor1 any more and neither can the aliens.
I like the slow ramp up of the game as it leads to at least some LMG vs skulk play, but a big problem I've observed on both teams is an unwillingness to defend their early expansions. The game doesn't seem designed for a new player to intuit that (yet).
I remember in NS1, even after the game had been out for ~7 years and generally no new players, nobody really defended alien RTs in public games. I think more incentive for the individual might be necessary because sure as hell waypoints don't work.
Remember gorges pretty much only get income from towers due to their lack of offensive power, and more cysts means less hydras. A gorge often finds himself unable to contribute anything meaningful except healing from well out of combat (because dying would lose you even more res) when extending cyst networks. Doesn't stop comms from ordering broke gorges to build hydras, like they've got resources coming out the arse.
That's why you put them high up on walls and ceilings.
From <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115670&hl=" target="_blank">this</a> thread.
I quoted my contribution :)
<!--quoteo(post=1890609:date=Dec 17 2011, 08:44 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 17 2011, 08:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890609"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Seeds and plants aren't all one lifeform. Each seed sustains itself.
The way infestation works is much closer to a fungus, which spreads out to fill space and has no taproot or stem or weak point, it just grows, and every single fiber serves to connect back to the whole. There are the occasonal specialised growths, usually for spreading spores, but fungus is not usually photosynthetic so picking them wouldn't kill it, it'd just stop it from doing whatever that particular growth does.
The only way to kill a fungus is to kill every bit of it, either by changing the environmental conditions so that it dies, or by finding all the bits and killing them all directly.
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From all of that, I think the NS2 infestation should just grow on its own, with the commander being able to stimulate growth in a particular direction, maybe by dropping cysts, but cysts should not be required to keep it alive.
I think it'd be much better if dropping a cyst made the infestation in the local area grow faster around the cyst, and also made it regenerate much faster when damaged. This allows cysts to serve as a means of controlling growth, and also of sustaining growth under tough conditions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really like this idea. There are however some issues with severing the paths of infestation. Would it just recede away from where you spray your bullets? It wouldn't be easy to make it appear right and be intuitive. If you instead use vines that the infestation slowly spreads out around, you would cut the vine and make the part not connected slowly die with the infestation receding from it meanwhile. The infestation should grown with time, but the spread should decrease exponentially so that you get some fast but much slowly.
The vine would start of from the hive, and then you can direct it and also branch it. Directing it just tells it where to go, while branching it would strengthen the entire vein leading up to the branch. This would make the vine much harder to kill at the hive, yet so much more rewarding.
As you work with a vine, I think you want three options: direct, branch, and connect. Starting with a one-hive system, the vine would be of power "one". That means that the outermost vines would have the health "one" while we go back towards the hive, the vine would increase in power by "one" for each branch it passes. I don't think directing should cost anything, while branching would cost (energy or res as suitable).
I draw an image, as I am told those explain more than a thousand words ;)
<img src="http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9430/infestation.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<i>Figure: Green symbolize infestation spread</i>
The main point of connect would be to add different branches together. Doing so will make them continue as one after the connection, with their respective power added together. Connecting a vine from a new hive will connect both systems and increase the power of all vines by "one". The actual durability from a certain power would have to be balanced and probably wouldn't be linear :)
<!--quoteo(post=1890877:date=Dec 19 2011, 04:10 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 19 2011, 04:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A lot of the other systems seem a little complex to me? I don't entirely understand the vine idea I admit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would say that it's based on your idea.
<ul><li>Infestation will spread to a certain distance from the vine</li><li>A vine will not grow by automatically, but the commander can point in what direction it should go (like with cysts accelerating..)</li><li>If you want to go in different directions, you fork the vine</li><li>Forking the vine increases the power of the vine leading up to the fork</li><li>Connecting one vine to another will increase the power of the vine after the fork</li><li>Connecting a hive will increase the power of all vines connected</li></ul>
I also draw a new image :)
<img src="http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/9782/infestation3.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I hope this makes it clearer. <i>Image updated</i>
<!--quoteo(post=1890918:date=Dec 19 2011, 08:54 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 19 2011, 08:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That still seems kinda complex, I mean you'd presumably end up with a bunch of fork points, and what happens if you connect a fork to a hive? You'd end up with the trailing end suddenly being the root, which would produce kinda weird effects I'm thinking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I imagine each new hive would spawn a new root vine. Connecting two different system would reinforce both of them.
<!--quoteo(post=1890918:date=Dec 19 2011, 08:54 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 19 2011, 08:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems like that sort of tree-like structure would either get very complicated very quickly, or be somewhat pointless. I mean taking summit as an example, I think I'd probably just run one big vine through the level, it's not like there'd be much reason to branch after all, the level is basically a circle with a line through it. By the time you want to branch you'd have another hive to run it off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Risk - gain gamble. It would be faster to just have one single vine grow through the entire level. On the other hand, if you wait to long to branch the entire vein could quickly die to a single marine with a hatchet. I imagine cutting a vine would kill it back to the latest fork. Also having multiple vines running alongside wouldn't be slower, but would have had a greater invested cost.
<!--quoteo(post=1890918:date=Dec 19 2011, 08:54 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 19 2011, 08:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unless of course you need to branch to fill out rooms in which case it seems like managing infestation in rooms would quickly become kinda annoying, as you'd have loads of little twigs coming off the main body of the root.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Shooting out a bunch is quicker but cost more. You can also have fewer and snake them through the room. I imagine about 3-4 vines would be good to fill out a fairly large room if you're not in a great hurry.
<!--quoteo(post=1890918:date=Dec 19 2011, 08:54 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 19 2011, 08:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1890918"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Plus the idea of branching making the vine stronger seems odd, it sounds like the best way to use the system would be to just run one thin line all through the level then spam a bunch of branches at the end to make the line really tough, but you'd kinda expect the opposite to be true because you'd think all the offshoots would make it weaker.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Think of it like this; the hive isn't stupid. It pumps in more power in a more complex tree to fuel the needs of it. It also works pretty well for game-play purposes :)
LOL. Hilarious. Okay, I have to shoot this down in the nicest way possible.
Spy.Backstab.
They randomly spawn unconnected on walls and ceilings despite giving a orange placeholder and infestation shouldn't only be found on ceilings.
Long answer is noooooooooo.
This.
Hive energy is the most constrained alien resource, so cyst killing is a fairly devastating tactic against aliens, doubly so before aliens get additional hives. My personal preference would be to either a) reduce cyst hive energy cost, b) makes cysts stronger, c) make them more protected from long-range fire, or d) some combination of the above.
It kinda seems like right now it's too difficult to spread early game and too easy late game.
It kinda seems like right now it's too difficult to spread early game and too easy late game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If Drifters cost P.Res instead, then Hive energy would only be spent on Cysts. That would make balancing the cost simpler. I never liked the Hive energy cost on Drifters, because it severely limits the ability for aliens to create structures.
Each additional Hive should increase the expansion speed of infestation (via additional Cysts). To limit the rapid expansion of infestation, Cysts would create infestation slowly (which they already do).
The features of energy as a resource are, as I understand it:
1 - A resource gained only by a tech point.
2 - A resource that is limited with time.
3 - A resource with a cap.
Regarding 3, this means that players can only do a maximum number of actions at a single point in time; however, most players usually operate beneath the cap anyway, so the cap is often theoretical at best; meaning that usually only 1 and 2 truly apply.
Regarding 2, all resources act in this way except Personal Res (which is also affected by RFK); therefore it is a non-consideration, meaning that 1 is the only truly important feature.
Regarding 1, this means that those things purchasable by energy are limited by major expansions (tech points) and not affected by minor expansions (resource nodes) - I'm not convinced that this is a great idea as is.
+1
Especially on marine side the energy makes stuff very spammable and cuts the amount of decisions the comm has to make. Same on aliens with umbra, cloak, etc. but they have bigger problems too like the ridiculously low range.