Alien Resource Recycling
Frahg
Join Date: 2002-12-03 Member: 10432Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-12-03 Member: 10432Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Bug, or needed feature?</div> Right now I consider pressing F4 and returning to the ready room to recycle your resources an exploit. However, I also think it's a valueable strategy and one that should be added to the game instead of blocked out in a later patch.
I've even gone so far as to post a suggestion detailing HOW it should stay in the game:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=16396' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=5&t=16396</a>
What do you guys think? Is this a exploit that should be squashed and removed or a strategy that should be made legit?
--Frahg
I've even gone so far as to post a suggestion detailing HOW it should stay in the game:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=16396' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=ST&f=5&t=16396</a>
What do you guys think? Is this a exploit that should be squashed and removed or a strategy that should be made legit?
--Frahg
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I might be wrong, but I think that in pre-1.02, when you join the alien team it gives you 13 resources to start out with (like when you join the team at the start of the game). So if you kept pressing f4 and rejoining, you'd magically gain back resources that came out of nowhere while flusing your current resources to the gorges. When you died, you could do it again for an endless supply.
Currently you start with zero when you rejoin. So in a sense it's fixed. I'm withholding judgement on how it currently works. I'm not sure if the devs intended you to do this still or not. I expect that if they did, then in the future there will be a feature that will just let you flush directly instead of going through the whole rejoining thing.
However, I'm referring to the second scenario you described. When a skulk builds up res, presses F4 and recycles his resources to the team. Should that be removed or allowed?
--Frahg
he has it set up so you can do this with out an exploit
But thats just my 2 cents
he has it set up so you can do this with out an exploit<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats the worst server on the net, almost as bad a Chucamunga Chunk of Phlegm for HL
lame **obscenity** admins think they know how to run the game better than the people who made it.... GrrRrrRRRrrrr...!! Angerrrrrr rising!!!
sometimes that's just what you need. When the aliens have too many players they can have a really hard time getting enough resources to the gorges. Sometimes, everyone recycling 13 resources so that the gorge gets an extra 1 from everyone is much better than waiting for the 15 people to max out to 33... Getting a second resource up quick (and effectively doubling production) can go so much further than waiting a few minutes to max out production...
The truth of the matter is this. The larger the game, the better the "recycling" strategy is... When there's two players, the gorge gets 3/4 (75%) of the resources, so who cares about recycling. When there are 15 players the gorge gets 3/17 (17%) of the resources so anything you can do to get them more res--the better. But then again, when there are 2 players the gorges are getting 1/2 resource per RT while when there are 15 players the gorges get 7.5 times that (about). Hmm... will have to think about that some more...
Oh sure, share/give back your res to the gorge. What an effective strategy! Not. Its simply making things easier for the Alien/Gorge.
Doesn't matter what your opinions about it are. Its a simple cheap **obscenity** thing to do. No questions asked. Don't defend the issue.
"What an effective strategy! Not. Its simply making things easier for the Alien/Gorge."
yes, it is effective. and making things easier for the gorg helps the them, which in the end helps you
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
You're funny. There is no doubt in my mind that this is an exploit. The reasons that this works and the way its being used are totally different.
But that's not the point of this thread. The point of this thread is to defend its use or make arguements against its use.
I happen to be of the opinion that this should be part of the game. I feel that teams should be able to allocate their resources to their gorges if that's what they think is fit. It's a trade off, later they will take longer to evolve. There should be a facility to stop collecting res or dump your res back to your gorges.
I rarely hear anyone say why they think otherwise other than to say "this is an exploit and will be corrected". Sure, it's an exploit. But is it bad??? WHY?
--Frahg
If I ran an NS server, I would probably kick players for doing this (after warning them of the consequences, of course, it would probably be a rule listed on the MOTD.)
Skulks can be pretty effective when used correctly, so I don't think it's really a 'man down' if the player knows how to skulk well.
<a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=13872' target='_blank'>As for the resources going back gradually, maybe you meant this thread?</a>
I believe it's an exploit, simply (but by no means only) because of the definition of an exploit: "To make use of meanly or unjustly for one's own advantage." Alien sharing is not in the mod for a reason (Devs have mentioned about it several times) and to circumvent their intentional desire in the mod would be to exploit their oversight.
As for Voogru's and everything... That's a mix of copyright violations and trademark violations.
The whole alien team starts the game, then all except one use F4 until all are out (ensuring the only remaining alien player is the gorge), then enters again directly. This ensures having one gorge starting with all resources available, max 100. It's probably not necessary to do it this way - having everyone donate as they die is probably enough, but lets see how the strategy plays out.
Lets see, assume a 10v10 player game. Each res node then gives 25 res/min. Using the above strategy, the gorge gets 100 res and builds the first hive at the one minute mark. The gorge then have about 30 resources, and the skulks about 2 each. Plop down a res tower which are built at the 1.5 minute mark.
At 1.5 minutes: 50 res/minute, 1 gorge getting 3/12 shares or 1/4 for 12 res@12.5 inc, 9 skulks 2 res@4res/min.
At 2.5 minutes: 1 gorge builds 3rd res tower, 0res@12.5/min, 9skulks 6 res@4res/min
At 3 minutes: 1 gorge finished building res tower, 6 res@19res/min, 9 skulks 8 res@6res/min
At 4 minutes: 2nd hive done, 1 gorge builds 4 res tower, 0 res @19 res/min, 9 skulks 14 res@6res/min
At 4.5 minutes: 1 gorge finished 4th res tower, 10 res@25res/miun, 9 skulks 17res@8.5res/min
Time to get to 44 resources is (44-17)/8.5 or about 3-4 minutes, assuming the gorge now builds def/mov chambers.
First fades at about 8 minutes then. Not to mention super-skulks with leap, carap and celerity from the 5-6 minute point, or lerks with umbra from about 6-7 minutes.
Without going into details, the usual time to second hive is 12-13 minutes and first fade about 15-16 minutes. Using the ready-room strategy/exploit, you halve the time to fades and cut the time to first hive by 2/3. While it would definately be fun to have a gap between 2nd hive and the fades coming out so you can leap around with your skulks, it just feels to be too much of an advantage for it to be an intended strategy.
Of course, for larger games (12v12+), the above is just about the only chance the aliens have to win the game, other than hoping for a noob commander.
he has it set up so you can do this with out an exploit<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats the worst server on the net, almost as bad a Chucamunga Chunk of Phlegm for HL
lame **obscenity** admins think they know how to run the game better than the people who made it.... GrrRrrRRRrrrr...!! Angerrrrrr rising!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
for the worst server on the net; would you explain why it's ALWAYS FULL?? and of the 400+ 100ms ping servers; only 3 are full? 1 of the 3 being voogrus?
Explain that away please. Or is it normal for you to just to flame people all the time. You children are amazing.
Since it's the worst out there; we certainly do appreciate the free advertising. It's great.
The more bad things you say about us; the more users we get. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Thanks.
BTW - you are correct about the Admins knowing more then the coders do about their own game. I certainly do wish they would fix their cpu usage problems, and the stack memory errors are at best, horrible. The excuse "You need a powerful machine to run this" is very lame. Not only is it lame; it's a down right lie.
Keep in mind, this MOD STILL USES THE HL ENGINE! You can run 8 - 10 TFC, CS, or HL servers for the same amount of cpu/memory usage 1 NS SERVER uses w/only 18 player server. That is NOT cool!
he has it set up so you can do this with out an exploit<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats the worst server on the net, almost as bad a Chucamunga Chunk of Phlegm for HL
lame **obscenity** admins think they know how to run the game better than the people who made it.... GrrRrrRRRrrrr...!! Angerrrrrr rising!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BTW - GreyPaws; you have NEVER even registered with voogru.com How do you know what you speak is accurate?
Let me guess - you normally blow smoke out of your butt. Your crap is the only one that doesn't stink. You know everything, even without research. YA! Your da man.
Wisdom is much more to behold then intelligence.
Evaluate how much wisdom you have. We, by reading your statements know how much wisdom you have.
Anyway, I suggest when someone recycles, just cut the resources in half, one half completely disappearing, and the other half going to the gorges. This, in a way, would reduce the "exploitation" of this, but also be a dangerous strategy.. either get two hives up faster with no fades or lerks, or get two hives up with players able to get fade and lerk faster?
sometimes that's just what you need. When the aliens have too many players they can have a really hard time getting enough resources to the gorges. Sometimes, everyone recycling 13 resources so that the gorge gets an extra 1 from everyone is much better than waiting for the 15 people to max out to 33... Getting a second resource up quick (and effectively doubling production) can go so much further than waiting a few minutes to max out production...
The truth of the matter is this. The larger the game, the better the "recycling" strategy is... When there's two players, the gorge gets 3/4 (75%) of the resources, so who cares about recycling. When there are 15 players the gorge gets 3/17 (17%) of the resources so anything you can do to get them more res--the better. But then again, when there are 2 players the gorges are getting 1/2 resource per RT while when there are 15 players the gorges get 7.5 times that (about). Hmm... will have to think about that some more...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, letting the aliens set their "resource limit" would probably be a good thing. Resources just sit unused in each non-gorge player's stash lots of the time.
Then again, if this were the case, each alien could set their limit to 0, and then the gorges would just become like commanders with 100% of the resources (yeah, except they couldn't drop health, etc.). That might change the game dynamic a lot...so I'm not sure what the call is going to be on this one. I'll let's the devs wrestle over it.
Everytime I'm gorge or ppl ask me to recycle I always refuse to. I've been threatened and kicked for this reason and seen it happen to other people. How can u all globally accpect this as a exploit but use it all the time in the game?
1) the thing that vogoru has (putting rez in the hive), was actulay IN the game for some time, it was taken out by Flay b/c he deemed it unbalanced(this is not a rip on vogoru, it is pointing out that f4ing is an exploit)
2) if you f4 to recycle, hehe you don't give back ALL of your rez, only a %now (it was changed for 1.03)
personaly I tihnk it is an exploit and sohlud not be part of the game
when ever I hit 33 rez I go drop a RT at one of the remote odd places <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If thats true, then the NS coder has done the same thing.
Flayra has modded HL, to a very large extent.
I have modded NS, to a very small extent.
I like the resource sharing in my server, Flayra had it even in one point in beta, but he took it out.
I want it in, so i made my own little code to allow for it.
copyright infringment:
No, he is not trying to pass off NS as his own work, nor is he making ANY money off of it
trademark violations:
same deal
Dude; lets get rid of this language "SCRIPT" it is NOT a script. It's C++ code, his own at that.
he has it set up so you can do this with out an exploit<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats the worst server on the net, almost as bad a Chucamunga Chunk of Phlegm for HL
lame **obscenity** admins think they know how to run the game better than the people who made it.... GrrRrrRRRrrrr...!! Angerrrrrr rising!!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BTW - GreyPaws; you have NEVER even registered with voogru.com How do you know what you speak is accurate?
Let me guess - you normally blow smoke out of your butt. Your crap is the only one that doesn't stink. You know everything, even without research. YA! Your da man.
Wisdom is much more to behold then intelligence.
Evaluate how much wisdom you have. We, by reading your statements know how much wisdom you have.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This bit of "wisdom" brought to you by a cheating admin. (Before I get any flames or banning, this is NOT an opinion. I have personally witnessed King Kahuna cheat)
Voogru has still changed the game for the worse. With any luck you will add in more "features" that will choke your servers.
Speaking of copyright and such, forget all that crap.
Did you have the decency to ask Flayra if you could recode his creation?