Tweaking Guide ?
uNMd
Join Date: 2011-12-09 Member: 137228Members
Join Date: 2011-12-09 Member: 137228Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Where is it ?</div>As the performance is still very poor, wheres the tweaking guide ? Why theres no sticky and noone that could make one ? I'm playing currently at about ~11fps. So its not worth looking at your game currently. I can see you are working on your project, but what about some more console commands for tweaking ? What about some focus on a good running Game rather then Gameplay issues and Stuff. I know its a Beta, but what you think i could tell you about your recent changes when the game is this unplayable on my machine. I mean I have a Laptop with a i5-2430m 2.4 Ghz wich bosst up to 3Ghz with Turbo Boost. A GT540 Mobility Graphicscard with 1GB of DDR3 Ram. Are you kidding me, CS Source runs with about 260fps. What about some more stability rather than new Game Mechanics.
Hope most of you dont get it in the wrong mouth. But for me its no Beta, its more like an Alpha.
Hope most of you dont get it in the wrong mouth. But for me its no Beta, its more like an Alpha.
Comments
Also, vizionz has some nice suggested tweaks for Nvidia graphics cards <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114414&st=20&p=1865716&#entry1865716" target="_blank">here</a> although the same principles can be applied to ATI/AMD hardware.
Besides that, making sure you have the most up-to-date drivers is about the best you can do.
The slowest part of the code is the gameplay code... which is, naturally, the one most subject to change.
So, especially for a small team, it is impossible to optimize that much due to time constraints. You wouldn't be playing a game at all if they spent time doing that.
As for tweaking, there are unfortunately few options to do that. Most people have a CPU bottleneck due to gameplay code anyway, which is hardly tweakable.
By the way, yelling at the developers won't make them magically produce a better game.
<i>My troll detector is going off though, whats up with that uNMd...</i>
Maybe don't aim it at yourself, I don't see fault at what uNMd (being a newcomer and all ) said.
Currently the main bottleneck is the Lua-script, which causes insane workloads for CPUs. It's been reworked several times, but I'm sure it'll be revised again (quite soon hopefully).
Also, vizionz has some nice suggested tweaks for Nvidia graphics cards <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114414&st=20&p=1865716&#entry1865716" target="_blank">here</a> although the same principles can be applied to ATI/AMD hardware.
Besides that, making sure you have the most up-to-date drivers is about the best you can do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean i need to write it all in the console ? No go ! Wheres a config file with everything listed ? Options.xml, you are kidding me, right? There are a plenty of ways to make me happier. What i need is ~30fps. Not ~11fps ! I know this topic would go that way. I payed for the game watching NS2HD. Everything I got is a Game full of empty servers. I know, I know i have supported the Developer. Thats a good thing. But after 6 Months of waiting I'm kind of surprised how the graphics quality got this good yet the performance is still this bad. What about killing some unnecessary animations, shaders, lightning... until the game is ready for it, and get more PPL playing this ALPHA ! I know you are this kind of big fans but btw. for a Development Team this small its a real stupid thing to code an Engine rather than licensing one. Im watching this game for a long time now. And know what, I looked at many games like this here. For me it looks like this thing here is slowly dying rather then growing what it should be. You guys simply get me wrong I wish the developers all the best. But this way they choosed is simply the wrong way. What you guys think how long will it take to get the game stable when there only ppl arround writing new lines of code rather then optimizing whats there. I mean were in Beta right, for how long ? And you guys talking to me like to a small child telling me dont to blame the Devs. All that get in my mind is: Come get some ! When its done !
There's nothing you can do about the CPU-bottleneck, there isn't anything CPU-related to turn off ( removing "some unnecessary animations, shaders, lightning" will not take load off of the CPU).
HaHa, yes i do understand you. But can you tell me one thing. Why putting in more and more content. More and more animations more and more. What about rewrititng whats there. The focus of this project is simply wrong. You guys telling me that the new load of content didnt affect the performance, you are telling bull######. Lets see how far my FPS drop when they include the Onos. Its simple like that, new lines of code = less fps for me = less ppl playing = less ppl discussing added content = ######. I didnt get what you guys want from me. Its good the animators and designers are working. But rly what I want is a playable Beta not a shiny Alpha. Its time for you guys to blame the devs ! They got plenty of time. All that we got is a Alpha not a Beta.
Do you expect the artists and feature designers to stop working and just have the programmers do stuff. That's not really how you run a company what with half your staff just twiddling their thumbs...
Do you expect the artists and feature designers to stop working and just have the programmers do stuff. That's not really how you run a company what with half your staff just twiddling their thumbs...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can write what you want, its time for some more blaming! Something is going wrong at unknownworlds.
If you don't want to type those commands into console each time you can use <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114700" target="_blank">McGlaspie's autoexec mod</a> (though I haven't tested if it works with the current patch).
Otherwise, you just have to wait. Performance has been improving with almost every (or every other) build.
player, I do believe this is what you were looking for :(
Theres one guy asking for refund and you are talking about trolling. Man you didnt get it. Read what im writing. Then tell me where im wrong. It started with an averrage of ~30fps mostly playable and ended with ~11fps unplayable. You guys dont know anything yet talking big.
They implemented a new oclusion cullingsystem 2 builds ago with a boost in performance.
They fixed alot of scripts ending in a performance boost.
And way more...
They don't just implement new things they do alot for performance they just hired a 2. Programer that is just here for that.
Hell wo long did you waited for HL2/DNF? NS2 on spark is just 2 years old any AAA game with a completly new engine takes around 5 years with 20 to 100 ppl working on it.
They need to work on features and on performance at the same time or alternating, else they would come nowhere any we couldn't play the game or only LMG vs Skulks.
Ppl coplaining about low FPS on high end laptops is always funny, there is a reason why 1 of my GPUs are twice as thik as your laptop.
Also information about your system and what you are running beside NS2. There are alot of things you can do to gain performance and it even has nothing to do with NS2 (try Windows 7 Gamer edition or do it yourself). Laptops are often full of garbage by default with all those million things the manufacturer putted in (that's why you should always do a fresch win install on laptops).
And stop jellying on the forums that the is nothing about performance tweeks in the forums just use the advanced search. You will find anything from lower ress to using nhancer, and googel will help you for the windows things. And always remember you first time, I am sure you didn't do everything right and that also counts on the first own engine!
You started out reasonable, then went off the rail and began talking crap. The CPU-usage is a well known issue, one which can only be addressed by about 2 of UWE's dev-team, which obviously have a lot on their plate, so it has taken (and will take yet) some time.
They probably damage your image of humanity in general. Sound plausible?
Yes, very much, although my image of humanity is pretty deteriorated already.
I just can't imagine being one of those guys at UWE, reading this... must be so demoralizing. Maybe I'm just too soft.
I just can't imagine being one of those guys at UWE, reading this... must be so demoralizing. Maybe I'm just too soft.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You need to have a very thick skin as a game developer. That's especially true for games with open or un-screened betas. At the end of the day, you're making a game that they'll love; if they can't (or won't) grasp that there will be difficulties along the way, there's usually not much you can do to change that.
Also, the internet becomes a much more relaxed place once you give up on humanity as a species. You should join the cynical side! We have statistically probable predictions and I-told-you-so-cakes.
The game is in a frustrating state. Where only a small portion of the community are actually capable of playing the game and server software which requires a super computer to host a game, we have to live and deal with that. Along with us UWE have to deal with the implications of the choices they have made. They are big boys now, I am sure they can take it.
The game is in a frustrating state. Where only a small portion of the community are actually capable of playing the game and server software which requires a super computer to host a game, we have to live and deal with that. Along with us UWE have to deal with the implications of the choices they have made. They are big boys now, I am sure they can take it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh I don't know, it seems we've given loads of information in this thread, which could help or explain why it's not working (underpowered laptop). Which was flat out ignored by OP and then resulted in more rage. There was no gathering of pitchforks as you call it, other then a valid question if OP was serious or trolling.
However it did degenerated into nonconstructive trolling flame bait, kinda answering that question. Not our fault as we did provide feedback,. Nothing much else we can do other then try to explain or help, if at all possible. If OP doesn't pick up on those things, it becomes a moot point. And blaming UWE for things or the community, only turns into a "yes/no" game, a pointless discussion which started out without a point in the first place! There's no use in discussion (read:arguing) just for the sake of discussion.
The game is in a frustrating state. Where only a small portion of the community are actually capable of playing the game and server software which requires a super computer to host a game, we have to live and deal with that. Along with us UWE have to deal with the implications of the choices they have made. They are big boys now, I am sure they can take it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd agree except that 1) the op didn't seem to do any searching for the already existing threads on this topic (forgivable since the NS2 search function is terrible, I generally have to use google to find anything in the forums) and 2) he seems to have basically ignored the advice given. If he just wants to vent his frustration regarding the pace of NS2 development, offtopic would be a better venue.
He was venting because the beta is unplayable (something no advice can fix) for the vast majority of people, not exactly a shocker or to be unexpected. Until UWE decide it is time to not require a supercomputer to run a server or run the client, this type of frustration will be created.
UWE has already *decided* to make their game compatible with as many machines as possible. Unfortunately, as anyone who's ever actually written a game (and engine) from scratch can tell you: deciding to have something happen in your game and actually making that thing happen (reliably, without bugs, and in such a way that it doesn't crash any of the other thousands of things that are also happening at any point in time) are two completely different things.
In fact, I would say that outside of brainstorming and testing, the action of taking "what you've decided to have happen" and making it into "what actually happens" is basically the entirety of the game development process.
In fact, I would say that outside of brainstorming and testing, the action of taking "what you've decided to have happen" and making it into "what actually happens" is basically the entirety of the game development process.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't intend on trivialising what UWE are doing, or suggesting they had no intention of making it playable. Sorry if it came across like that.
I was referencing the prioritisation. If having a large and flourishing beta community right now was top priority to UWE I would imagine we would have a better performing client and server, but with less features currently implemented. Now again, making an assumption, I imagine (and I get the impression) that isn't a top priority, so that is not the current situation. However, obviously, I have no insider knowledge of UWE's aims, goals, hopes and dreams.
My original point was that it would be naive of us to expect people to not be frustrated by the fact that the game is largely unplayable for most people. The game (without lag) is already stunningly fun and I am super excited about the day it all comes together and is released. That doesn't change the fact most games I play now are largely ruined by rubberbanding servers (even the best, like HBZ, this patch) or strange input lag.
"End-of-production" optimization is typically most or all of the <i>planned</i> optimization for a game. The problem with optimizing elements as you go is that the optimizations act on parts before they form the whole; so you might get better optimizations that invalidate all your current work popping up later in development, or you might have quick-fix optimizations wind up breaking or changing elements that later get used as key gameplay components.
Trying to optimize a game in development is like trying to decorate a skyscraper (marble floors, paint, artwork, carpet, you name it) while it's under construction: it's expensive and time consuming; anything you put it has a good chance of getting ruined before everything's finished; it can interfere with construction; and you can't even see the end product yet, so you'll probably decide you need to change the theme and redo the place from scratch when it's done. You build buildings from scaffolding to supports to structure to decorations, and you build games from engines to concepts to mechanics to balance/optimization.
-Can (and is it common that) end of production optimization multiply performance by a factor of 2, 3 or more?
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The reason I ask this is because I am in the construction business. And finding an optimized layout for example is a great part of the design process. If you start thinking about optimization of a building once the construction has started you will end up with a lot of problems. In software production it is very different because, I understand, to optimize code you need the code to be there. But, like in construction, shouldn't there be a first layer of identifying what you want in the game and designing how they are all going to fit together before starting to write the code? Can final optimization really make the whole thing work much faster, or does it just make it run a bit better?