I don't want any aspect of NS2 to be realistic just for the sake of realism. Gameplay comes first. The goal should be a consistent game world.
Two current examples for inconsistency would be - skulks being able to climb walls, but not structures and - whips being able to knock back grenades, although those usually explode on contact with structures.
SkymanderXGreen Marine - The Few, The Proud, The Green.Join Date: 2011-07-29Member: 113006Members
Ok, so i'm going to address some of the points made in the previous posts while also adding onto them.
I really agree with the idea of fun>Realism. I'd rather play a fun game than a simulator. Simple fact.
I agree with the idea of immersion. It is a necessity for a game to be immersive and heavily demanding on the player to make choices that effect the game for it to be very fun or addictive. The way to immerse people is with the "little stuff" or rather non Change-the-Engine type stuff. These would be stuff like sounds, the HUD, smoothness. I think that the way players interact with npcs is another major point. All of these being that when you look up and notice something about the game, its how amazing that sound effect was, or awesome that kill was, or probably best suited for NS2, how amazing that atmosphere was (lighting and textures). Another way to keep the player drawn into the game is constantly give them something to do. That's why choosing your spawn as a marine will make the game more fun. Because as soon as you die and stop watching your body, you immanently go do something else. That being said, building up a power-node or robotics factory by yourself for 30 seconds, removes the immersiveness that the amazing lighting and sounds ns2 does have, creates. Although the mini-map and scoreboard appear to be holding current player's attentions now while doing this.
Ok anyway, realism. Obviously as thefonz said, it is set in the future with crazy weapons and aliens so it can't be too realistic. But what i think we should strive for is realism in how things work. Things can be mysterious in how and why they work, (the Kharaa spawning, evolving, the shade, when it comes out the shift, and a few marine aspects) they still make some sense and therefore players don't question them too much. When you have an aspect of a game that happens for no apparent reason ie. the campaign in games forcing you to do something that seems ridiculous, then realism is taken away. Thankfully with NS2 being a multiplayer game, the game is mostly based on the players choice and doesn't bring to many scenarios where the player can't do things that he/she would want to do. Haha, why do you thing games like mine-craft are so popular? you can do virtually anything you can imagine. Granted no structure doesn't appeal to some, that's why there are zombies and dungeons and soon to be NPCs in that game.
Anyway most scenarios where a player can't do something in NS2 are just generally accepted by the gaming community ex: you can't fly out of the map because it ruins game-play for others, you have to have energy drain because its no fun to play against a fade who is forever in blink-mode. Stuff like this isn't an issue because it is accepted by most people. However these questions are pushing the boundaries of the gaming frontier today... but that's a whole other topic.
<b>The Bottom <u>Line</u></b> is that to maintain realism but funness in NS2, there must be immersiveness in the atmosphere and decision demanding gameplay (fun). Players need to be able to make lots of choices to be able to keep things fresh. You have to be able to play with your own style and not look around and see 20 others with the same way of playing the game. (fun and realism) And finally you have some general reason or explanation for how and why things work. (realism)
I hope this wasn't too long and didn't come off as me just rambling but i think this sums up how i feel about realism and the general outlook of NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1883262:date=Nov 2 2011, 01:01 PM:name=thefonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thefonz @ Nov 2 2011, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883262"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bottom line, unless the devs add a gun that shoots cheeseburgers and one shots all aliens except the gorge, who instead of dying, eats the cheeseburgers and becomes a supergorge and fires rainbows of death, I'll be happy with the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd support this idea! For a mod or cheat anyways. Whatever happened to games with fun cheats?
<!--quoteo(post=1881996:date=Oct 25 2011, 01:22 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Oct 25 2011, 01:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881996"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The word "real" has no place in an analysis or suggestion as it is a personal opinion...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think when he says realism, he means realistic... science fiction realistic... believable, immersive... kind of like aliens.
In my opinion, the game is coming along nicely, I would like a bit more in your face combat though, so you can tackle a skulk to save a buddy and then get into a fisty cuffs fight causing both of you to die... or none... or both... or better yet, OM NOM NOM. got the cheezeburger.
<!--quoteo(post=1884239:date=Nov 8 2011, 05:58 AM:name=Ironsoul)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ironsoul @ Nov 8 2011, 05:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think when he says realism, he means realistic... science fiction realistic... believable, immersive... kind of like aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm tempted to ask how many people use that right click and bat an alien away attack? Something like this realism element I find redundant in the game.. while we're on the subject of realism
<!--quoteo(post=1884279:date=Nov 8 2011, 11:59 AM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Nov 8 2011, 11:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm tempted to ask how many people use that right click and bat an alien away attack? Something like this realism element I find redundant in the game.. while we're on the subject of realism<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't even get good fps while fighting to use that! I either just spray my rifle or spray flames everywhere while jumping and hope to get a kill :P
Maybe later on when the game runs smooth It'll be easier to use.
I have seen it used and it looks awesome. It does mess the skulk/gorge/lerk up pretty bad if you manage to get a hit. When it comes to the fade, it doesn't do too much and when the Onos comes out, I'm pretty sure marines will be running/jumping/fleeing in all directions hoping to not get singled out, lol.
<!--quoteo(post=1884075:date=Nov 7 2011, 01:33 PM:name=Steinhauer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steinhauer @ Nov 7 2011, 01:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884075"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd support this idea! For a mod or cheat anyways. Whatever happened to games with fun cheats?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would rather see an underwater alien as a hidden Easter Egg.
<!--quoteo(post=1884298:date=Nov 8 2011, 10:53 PM:name=Hybridclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hybridclaw @ Nov 8 2011, 10:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would rather see an underwater alien as a hidden Easter Egg.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Speaking of Easter eggs, if I eventually finish this level I'm working on, I've got one hell of a "secret room" planned. Let's just hope every official map will have one of those too ;)
secret rooms are difficult to keep secret... considering the spectator mode... the trick is getting into them... or rather, making them difficult to get into.
<!--quoteo(post=1886097:date=Nov 22 2011, 03:44 AM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Nov 22 2011, 03:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Onos class needs to be able to defend the hive inside the hive room. That's just stupid to say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well there you go then! This just improves it by forcing the Onos to be out defend!
<!--quoteo(post=1886097:date=Nov 22 2011, 04:44 AM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Nov 22 2011, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1886097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Onos class needs to be able to defend the hive inside the hive room. That's just stupid to say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Guessing he meant Onoses can't enter the hive as in be commanders, rather than the entire hive room.
Comments
The goal should be a consistent game world.
Two current examples for inconsistency would be
- skulks being able to climb walls, but not structures and
- whips being able to knock back grenades, although those usually explode on contact with structures.
I really agree with the idea of fun>Realism. I'd rather play a fun game than a simulator. Simple fact.
I agree with the idea of immersion. It is a necessity for a game to be immersive and heavily demanding on the player to make choices that effect the game for it to be very fun or addictive. The way to immerse people is with the "little stuff" or rather non Change-the-Engine type stuff. These would be stuff like sounds, the HUD, smoothness. I think that the way players interact with npcs is another major point. All of these being that when you look up and notice something about the game, its how amazing that sound effect was, or awesome that kill was, or probably best suited for NS2, how amazing that atmosphere was (lighting and textures). Another way to keep the player drawn into the game is constantly give them something to do. That's why choosing your spawn as a marine will make the game more fun. Because as soon as you die and stop watching your body, you immanently go do something else. That being said, building up a power-node or robotics factory by yourself for 30 seconds, removes the immersiveness that the amazing lighting and sounds ns2 does have, creates. Although the mini-map and scoreboard appear to be holding current player's attentions now while doing this.
Ok anyway, realism. Obviously as thefonz said, it is set in the future with crazy weapons and aliens so it can't be too realistic. But what i think we should strive for is realism in how things work. Things can be mysterious in how and why they work, (the Kharaa spawning, evolving, the shade, when it comes out the shift, and a few marine aspects) they still make some sense and therefore players don't question them too much. When you have an aspect of a game that happens for no apparent reason ie. the campaign in games forcing you to do something that seems ridiculous, then realism is taken away. Thankfully with NS2 being a multiplayer game, the game is mostly based on the players choice and doesn't bring to many scenarios where the player can't do things that he/she would want to do. Haha, why do you thing games like mine-craft are so popular? you can do virtually anything you can imagine. Granted no structure doesn't appeal to some, that's why there are zombies and dungeons and soon to be NPCs in that game.
Anyway most scenarios where a player can't do something in NS2 are just generally accepted by the gaming community ex: you can't fly out of the map because it ruins game-play for others, you have to have energy drain because its no fun to play against a fade who is forever in blink-mode. Stuff like this isn't an issue because it is accepted by most people. However these questions are pushing the boundaries of the gaming frontier today... but that's a whole other topic.
<b>The Bottom <u>Line</u></b> is that to maintain realism but funness in NS2, there must be immersiveness in the atmosphere and decision demanding gameplay (fun). Players need to be able to make lots of choices to be able to keep things fresh. You have to be able to play with your own style and not look around and see 20 others with the same way of playing the game. (fun and realism) And finally you have some general reason or explanation for how and why things work. (realism)
I hope this wasn't too long and didn't come off as me just rambling but i think this sums up how i feel about realism and the general outlook of NS2.
<!--coloro:#4169E1--><span style="color:#4169E1"><!--/coloro--><!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro-->Skymander<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Oh and BTW Real life sucks.
<!--quoteo(post=1883262:date=Nov 2 2011, 01:01 PM:name=thefonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thefonz @ Nov 2 2011, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883262"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bottom line, unless the devs add a gun that shoots cheeseburgers and one shots all aliens except the gorge, who instead of dying, eats the cheeseburgers and becomes a supergorge and fires rainbows of death, I'll be happy with the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd support this idea! For a mod or cheat anyways. Whatever happened to games with fun cheats?
In my opinion, the game is coming along nicely, I would like a bit more in your face combat though, so you can tackle a skulk to save a buddy and then get into a fisty cuffs fight causing both of you to die... or none... or both... or better yet, OM NOM NOM. got the cheezeburger.
Bingo, I guess I wasn't very clear.
I can't even get good fps while fighting to use that! I either just spray my rifle or spray flames everywhere while jumping and hope to get a kill :P
Maybe later on when the game runs smooth It'll be easier to use.
I have seen it used and it looks awesome. It does mess the skulk/gorge/lerk up pretty bad if you manage to get a hit.
When it comes to the fade, it doesn't do too much and when the Onos comes out, I'm pretty sure marines will be running/jumping/fleeing in all directions hoping to not get singled out, lol.
I would rather see an underwater alien as a hidden Easter Egg.
Speaking of Easter eggs, if I eventually finish this level I'm working on, I've got one hell of a "secret room" planned. Let's just hope every official map will have one of those too ;)
Onos should not be able to enter a hive (It is too big)
Answer: As much realism as possible.
However, I will not play this game if it doesn't have jetpacks.
That's not to say I don't play games without jetpacks, I just won't play this game if it doesn't have jetpacks.
Well there you go then!
This just improves it by forcing the Onos to be out defend!
Guessing he meant Onoses can't enter the hive as in be commanders, rather than the entire hive room.