Realism - How much do we want to see in NS2
thefonz
Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
I just want to see some community opinion on how much realism is desired in NS2. I complete get that it is a game, set in the future, with crazy technology. That said, a degree of realism often brings a large measure of fun IMO. Of course too much realism can be a drag to many people.
Personally I like to side with more realistic things. That said, I also love some questionable content with a decent fiction to keep it plausible.
i.e.
Jetpacks - In reality, probably a terrible idea for combat. How do you use a gun and fly? But hey, its the damn future!
So I guess what I'm asking the community is this: What level of BS makes the balance between realism and fiction the most fun for NS2?
Bottom line, unless the devs add a gun that shoots cheeseburgers and one shots all aliens except the gorge, who instead of dying, eats the cheeseburgers and becomes a supergorge and fires rainbows of death, I'll be happy with the game.
Personally I like to side with more realistic things. That said, I also love some questionable content with a decent fiction to keep it plausible.
i.e.
Jetpacks - In reality, probably a terrible idea for combat. How do you use a gun and fly? But hey, its the damn future!
So I guess what I'm asking the community is this: What level of BS makes the balance between realism and fiction the most fun for NS2?
Bottom line, unless the devs add a gun that shoots cheeseburgers and one shots all aliens except the gorge, who instead of dying, eats the cheeseburgers and becomes a supergorge and fires rainbows of death, I'll be happy with the game.
Comments
Generally though, I don't care about realism, but I do care about theme, and I think that is usually what people mean when they say realism. As long as the game feels internally consistent, I'm good. If that means lots of things totally unrealistic, then fine. But your proposed cheeseburger gun would obvious just feel goofy regardless of its mechanics, and it such a mechanic WERE to hypothetically of course be added, hopefully they'd have enough sense to figure out a design for it that made it fit within the world they've created.
... Ok, maybe some. I am a fan of gravity (in some cases), and a proper physics engine (collision, accerelation and such). The rest I want designed for as fast-paced and fun gameplay as possible, not realism.
No, it aint nanites.
Jetpacks in NS were a counter to the Onos and arguably the Gorge and Lerk. It's not like they are going to be put in NS2 just for the coolness factor :)
No, it aint nanites.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DOT rated helmets?
please
Ha, try taking this post with a grain of salt. Furthermore, I fully believe aliens exist, somewhere out there.
We've had poofing structures on marines side for 9 years now.
The shotgun needs its sound revamped, it just sounds like a peashooter right now and maybe make the pellets more visable. Like the rifle. Would also mean you can see yourself how much you actually hit so people would stop whining their crosshair said they shot the skulk 3 times and it didn't die.
We aren't going for a specific rating, and we plan to have blood decals, as soon as we get decals fully working in the game.
--Cory
If theres no realism or consistency, i find the atmosphere goes somewhat. Mostly its small things like not mixing the horror sci-fi feel with random and unnecessary humour eg. hamburger gun. But the current animation problems can also make skulks and marines look a little stupid, and double jumping without some inventive animation would probably make me laugh then cry.
More controversially i also like the less fluid marine movement compared to ns1 partly because it helps create the tense atmosphere that u are inside clunky armour unable to run away, but only because this is consistent with the gameplay mechanics which say the aliens are mobile and can make hit and run strikes anywhere on the map, whilst the marines have to focus on team work and stay in groups. Being a Marine on his own isnt just unwise but feels nervy and vulnerable, and i think tying this sort of realism to the gameplay goals has some merit to it.
A few examples like this might be how awkward it is for fades to get over the tinniest bump when blinking or similar kinks with skulk wall walking but I dont think there are many intentional areas gameplay decisions are damaging the atmosphere. But i think its something to consider as more features are added.
Then it would be perfectly balanced :)
okay not perfectly balanced, but would make it more tense, realistic, and team oriented.
-B1ackSmoke
Not trying to argue against that. It's been covered by the fiction of the nano grid anyway, so it has a 'game relative' realism.
Just saying that poofing cysts does not feel right. I think infestation really needs to 'grow', like many other natural things. Vines and moss are good examples.
Since you brought up poofing marine structures. I think a great immersion improvement would be for only a base for the structure to poof down. Let the marines see a partly transparent structure that slowly becomes assembled from that base upwards. The constructing edge could spark and glow as the structure is being completed. As aliens, the transparent, incomplete, part would not be visible. That way for both sides you can easily tell how complete a structure is by how finished it is.
This goes well with how aliens structures start very small and grow to full size. Would love to see the hive behave like that eventually as well.
I much prefer fun in games.
This seems to be relevant to good game mechanics, atmosphere/immersion, and responsive controls.
I say this because the games I have liked ...other people have outlined these concepts and pointed them out to me again and again.
realism in games is a funny discussion in itself.
Yeah in (insert any soldier game) I want the following to occur while I am at war...
My wife divorces me and runs off with some dip######.
My little brother fakes his age to enlist and be like me...killed in seconds.
The rest of my family starves to death in poverty.
There is enough realism in reality games are escapism.
... Ok, maybe some. I am a fan of gravity (in some cases), and a proper physics engine (collision, accerelation and such). The rest I want designed for as fast-paced and fun gameplay as possible, not realism.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I completely agree.
I love immersion. For me realism, or at least believable aspects, greatly improve immersion.
That said, game mechanics comfirst of course. But when great mechanics come with a touch of realism, well, that's just icing on the cake!
I hope I'm not being misunderstood about realism. I don't want to bandage every bite wound or hand load every mag. I just want to believe the game
I do agree that a proper growing animation for the cysts would be nice, as would one for the hive and towers.
Would be especially interesting for the hive, seeing it develop or grow based off its % constructed.
My guess is that the UWE devs would take this path at a later stage of development.
I think if you go far back enough in the design log the idea is for dynamic infestation to spread along vines towards points selected by the commander. It would be good if buildings felt like they grew off infestation a bit more though. It would give the aliens a more organic feel, at the moment its a bit too obvious they're just being plonked down.
<!--quoteo(post=1883400:date=Nov 3 2011, 07:57 AM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Nov 3 2011, 07:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would like to see the weapons have some weight and feel to them. Killingfloor did this really well without getting too realistic(obviously I don't expect/want NS to go iron sights, though)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair point, the guns aren't very fun or satisfying to use at the moment, the new rifle design feels alot better than previously though. One of the rifles problems is that the firing sound doesnt quite sync with the bullets and its impossible to fire off just a single round, so it doesn't feel like your firing a <i></i>real<i></i> gun. This is a minor realism issue that could improve the feel of the game without damaging gameplay.
If I wanted a realistic epic firefight game, I'd go for something like ARMA or Red Orchestra. The red screen from low health is enough realism for me in ns2. Although a mild suppressing fire effect wouldn't hurt....
I love immersion. For me realism, or at least believable aspects, greatly improve immersion.
That said, game mechanics comfirst of course. But when great mechanics come with a touch of realism, well, that's just icing on the cake!
I hope I'm not being misunderstood about realism. I don't want to bandage every bite wound or hand load every mag. I just want to believe the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would say that the only time realism has a good effect on immersion is the first time you play the game. Or maybe first time you play a fps. I am used to playing very different games than cod and bf3, which is why I lose all immersion when I in bf3 feel so slow, and its hard to cancel anything you do to do something else.
There is so many "realistic" aspects that remove all my immersion as it is so different from other games. For example the bullets fall and doesnt end up where I aim (its ok for visible xbow bolts, and nades, but not rly otherwise), when ppl shoot near me I get blurry vision, and any outdoor surface that is not very dark has an epic bloom effect blinding my whole screen (a door looked like a spotlight directly in my face from afar). And what is up with lights being visible through walls and objects and blinding me to hell?
What helps immersion is consistency. This is why ppl often think realism help their immersion when it actually does not really matter (the game inherits our expectations of the world, and instead of having to teach us where it is different, it tries to be the same).
As long as the player knows what to expect from the world and it happens, it is immersing. That is why you can get immersion in games with aliens running about, or with the camera in the mouth.
Nothing breaks immersion more than when you get impaired somehow in the game (flashbangs, slowed, similar), at least if this impairment is unexpected.
The rules suddenly change, and you still dont suffer from those impairments irl. Instead the sound is muffled, which means you react more to audible stimuli from the real world. Or the screen is blinded so that you suddenly can focus more brainpower on the rest of your view, like the room you sit in.
tl;dr
Keep realism at a minimum. If it doesnt enhance gameplay, dont implement it.