Thoughts to the Dev Team
CEldin
Join Date: 2002-09-16 Member: 1323Members
Join Date: 2002-09-16 Member: 1323Members
<div class="IPBDescription">From a Dedicated Fan</div>First:
Marines or Marine structures parasited do NOT need such a large icon signifying their parisitization.
Decrease its size, you've already trusted Marine players to understand their orders by signifying their steps with a simple digitized 'line.' In fact, decrease the size of waypoints for marines as well. At this point in gameplay I don't know anybody without an obscene computer setup (read: expensive computer) whose aiming is not compromised by these things, on either Marine or Alien sides. Simplify what we see and we get better gameplay.
Second:
Skulks are to difficult to hit.
You've addressed this partially with your progress notes and your reference to a forum contributor. But largely skulks are difficult to hit regardless of system spec - I see people I know to get 45-80fps getting taken down in 1v1 or 2v2 situations vs. skulks. I know them, they're good players, and it's NOT their fault. Marines, IMO, should dominate the early game with occasional hard-won (exceptionally played) victories awarded to the Kharra. Our current balance situation is completely skewed by the difficulty of registration and FPS. Registration is something you can improve for everyone; FPS is a somewhat more fungible prospect. The animation of skulks is a slight issue but not what I see as driving this particular problem. Registration and FPS need to improve or you need to change the balance of the game.
Third: Addendum to the second.
Shotguns should be considerably more effective. Perhaps this is just my experience but the Shotgun is just not good enough. Maybe I just don't get enough FPS. But I played NS1 w/ BAH and the shotgun, while vulnerable, had considerably more impact than it does now. Further, it becomes extremely difficult to kill REALLLY GOOD fades with it because of registration and FPS (see before). How do you plan on solving this particular aspect of gameplay? Better registration/performance? That would help but the real problem is that we can't hit fades while they're teleporting. You've completely excised a HUGE part of fade deterrence and, more importantly, Marine skill.
Fourth: Simplification of Nuts + Bolts does NOT = universal appeal
I'm still against the Alien commander - it made the game unique and fresh when there wasn't one. But that's neither here nor there. I just want to emphasize that what keeps people coming back and back and back and back AAAAnd baaaack is the GAMEPLAY. It's the distinct gradations of skill levels available in the game. That's what defines CS' success and is certainly something NS2 should aspire to (NS2 will not have the commercial appeal of its contemporary blockbuster titles) if it hopes to succeed. I hope the wall-jumping mechanic is good and I hope you have some movement mechanic in mind for Marines (aside from slower exo + flying JP =/ ). NS1 had BHopping, which most of you hate, but I must take issue with others' frustration with our affection of that particular mechanic. It provided a scalable differentiation between the really good and the excellent.
Anyway, huge fan of the game, I just hope the larger focus is still maintained.
Marines or Marine structures parasited do NOT need such a large icon signifying their parisitization.
Decrease its size, you've already trusted Marine players to understand their orders by signifying their steps with a simple digitized 'line.' In fact, decrease the size of waypoints for marines as well. At this point in gameplay I don't know anybody without an obscene computer setup (read: expensive computer) whose aiming is not compromised by these things, on either Marine or Alien sides. Simplify what we see and we get better gameplay.
Second:
Skulks are to difficult to hit.
You've addressed this partially with your progress notes and your reference to a forum contributor. But largely skulks are difficult to hit regardless of system spec - I see people I know to get 45-80fps getting taken down in 1v1 or 2v2 situations vs. skulks. I know them, they're good players, and it's NOT their fault. Marines, IMO, should dominate the early game with occasional hard-won (exceptionally played) victories awarded to the Kharra. Our current balance situation is completely skewed by the difficulty of registration and FPS. Registration is something you can improve for everyone; FPS is a somewhat more fungible prospect. The animation of skulks is a slight issue but not what I see as driving this particular problem. Registration and FPS need to improve or you need to change the balance of the game.
Third: Addendum to the second.
Shotguns should be considerably more effective. Perhaps this is just my experience but the Shotgun is just not good enough. Maybe I just don't get enough FPS. But I played NS1 w/ BAH and the shotgun, while vulnerable, had considerably more impact than it does now. Further, it becomes extremely difficult to kill REALLLY GOOD fades with it because of registration and FPS (see before). How do you plan on solving this particular aspect of gameplay? Better registration/performance? That would help but the real problem is that we can't hit fades while they're teleporting. You've completely excised a HUGE part of fade deterrence and, more importantly, Marine skill.
Fourth: Simplification of Nuts + Bolts does NOT = universal appeal
I'm still against the Alien commander - it made the game unique and fresh when there wasn't one. But that's neither here nor there. I just want to emphasize that what keeps people coming back and back and back and back AAAAnd baaaack is the GAMEPLAY. It's the distinct gradations of skill levels available in the game. That's what defines CS' success and is certainly something NS2 should aspire to (NS2 will not have the commercial appeal of its contemporary blockbuster titles) if it hopes to succeed. I hope the wall-jumping mechanic is good and I hope you have some movement mechanic in mind for Marines (aside from slower exo + flying JP =/ ). NS1 had BHopping, which most of you hate, but I must take issue with others' frustration with our affection of that particular mechanic. It provided a scalable differentiation between the really good and the excellent.
Anyway, huge fan of the game, I just hope the larger focus is still maintained.
Comments
Altough I have to admit that I did go more for the shotgun on ns1 then here, here I usually just wait for fades to kick in. I rareley on 1 kill a skulk with a shotgun, so thats a bit of an issue.. Then again how anoying is it as a skulk to get one hit killed?
You should just accept n4, I don't think they will change it (mayb ns3 :p?), but as for n3 I agree and I think you will find the majority of the people do here. The fade going invisible was fun at first but has proven to be quite a pain now ;-)
I disagree! I play a lot as a commander and I feel that the new waypoint line is very difficult for the players to see. It is very frustrating trying to get your players to move where you want if they all the players aren't able to see the waypoints without extensively focusing on them. I hear commanders, me included shouting "check your waypoints" every now and then because it helps a lot. People just don't see the new waypoint indicators without focusing on them.
To me having something that blocks your vision every now and then is a way less harmful than having an objective indicator that no one sees.
This all combined to the fact that nobody can hear the ingame voice well enough makes commanding experience so frustrating that i'll mostly keep on playing organized games until voice and objective issues are solved.
gonna semi-agree on alien comms, i think they should definitely have a more temporary feel to them. consider allowing an 'autopilot' commander mode, where you can queue up building and orders and then jump out.
On the note of alien commander, if you would just put year head to it there is alot you can do. For example go lerk or gorge and protect your res nodes. Also games right now are quite scrappy where no one really listens or payes attention. Once the game is released and you find a proper server you'll have your hands full as alien com.
You say that but what a fking epic game we had last night !!
Their were several, but the last one =)
Went from RC to AS
and before that Crevice to AS
Bout 11ish last night (GMT)
You, me and Obelisk, something like 18-1, 15-1 and 14-1 =)
Shooting gallery of Skulks
You could also mention, it was a shame that the other 3 marines were doing fck all =) other than the 3 of us and our comm (who ran out of PRES spamming ammo on us, heheheh)
Oh and welcome to the Fourms Grizzy
Not sure what you are going for here.
If it is the icons shown for parasited marines through walls are too large. i disagree.
If it is the general hall hack icon for a buddy nearby, I agree that could be trimmed in size.
The aliens need more info though.
I want a giant HIVE GOING UP HERE icon.
I can't count the amount of times the silent alien commander kept losing hives because aliens kept getting distracted from defending it.
Second
I agree...there is a problem...I think they are quite aware of it too.
Charlie indicated that the early game was where the marines started losing.
Third
Wait for the "Skulks are too hard to kill" to get resolved first ...then reevaaluate this opinion.
I get swell damage from shotgun...its just when things slow down I don't.
Fourth
I disagree.
They have made great strides in usability and usability is what truly held NS1 from rising above niche.
Plenty of good players I knew put the game down because they found it confusing.
Shotguns are freeeeaking amazing.
FPS and registry does need improving sure, but they know that.
I dunno. I hit a fade with 3 shotgun hits and it died.. multiple times.
I've certainly killed a bunch of Fades myself with the shotty - I'm not saying it's impossible to do, just far too difficult. Maybe I'll change my tune once Exo + HMG are in but I doubt it. Fades should be, as in NS1, afraid of shotties and require skulk help to dismantle a group of rines.
Also: do people really not agree with my first point? Don't WP's, parasited things, etc... obscure your vision too? It makes it more difficult to aim IMO and those markers should be decreased in size.
Boxer'D you say that skulks go down so easy without leap and I just have to straight-up disagree. Maybe you're playing on a supercomputer with fiber-optic internet but for the rest of us skulks are anything BUT easy to kill. And I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that.
I feel like aliens should win most of the in game 1v1 2v2 (if played correctly) battles. MARINES SHOULD ONLY WIN 3v2s or 2v1s with maybe one casualties. bigger battles (4v4s and such) are often won by marines as long as they don't bunch up together because they can pick off a skulk off another marine. Aliens should win in the early game but as the marines get more tech and research new stuff. Thats when they should take advantage of their superior technology and begin to thrive.
In order for aliens to win, they should have to crush their foes while they are still in the "technological Dark age" early in the game. but if a marine team holds on, they should be able to push to victory. And i think we are starting to see that with the use of arcs and phase gates and team play.
Bad frame rates and preformance issues are whats wrong with it, Those issuses hinder tracking all aliens especially at close range.
I've taken down a skulk and a fade in 4 rounds from a shotgun only to reload and chase down a gorge, and couldn't hit a gorge jumping around me in 8 shots from a shotgun before he heal sprayed me to death.
The problem is the spark engine is drawing large parts of the map is doesn't need to. So in close combat with your view swinging wildly to try and track fast moving enemies your PC is put under tremendous strain trying to draw useless map data, Even if you have a beast of a computer it will be brought to it's knees.
But have faith. I read on the fourms this is something Max is working on right now.
However, I still think there are three main problems plaguing balance:
1. Each map has five tech points (marine start, alien start, 3 up for grabs). This differs than the three hive locations from NS1 (there are now four hive locations in NS2), which means that marines have to cover much more ground to prevent alien expansion. I find this very frustrating, especially as commander. Aliens keep switching between hive spots for their second hive, which makes it terribly difficult to defend res nodes, defend home base, prevent expansion, and mount an attack to kill the alien start hive. Can someone please modify ns_summit to have only two additional hive locations and switch crossroads to a double res node? I'd just like to see how it plays, as I think matches will be much more balanced and intense.
2. Marine commander is much more difficult than alien commander. Aliens can be successful with a competent commander who secures res nodes and continues upgrades. Marine commander needs to be much more hands on while also instructing marines on where to go and what to do -- same isn't true for the aliens.
3. I think that destroying the marine start is too easy, at least when compared to taking out an alien hive. To win as aliens, you just need to kill all marines and the infantry portals -- the command center is not necessary. To win as marines, you must take out the alien hive, which takes significantly longer than killing a few infantry portals, especially when marines spawn from them (so you can attack marines immediately as they enter). Something needs to be done to address this. I'm not sure if it's attaching a default IP to the commander center, or perhaps allowing the command center to beacon marines using TR instead of through the observatory, but it's not fair for marines. Aliens should have to kill the command center in order to win. Too many games end where marines are off attacking alien structures, and the aliens swoop in and attack the base killing both IPs, effectively ending the game. When marines attack a hive, the aliens at least have time to respond due to the health level of the hive.
Marines need to kill the hive, which is a big target, but can be focused down quickly. However, they have to split their attention between defenses, aliens, alien eggs respawning, and dps on the hive.
Aliens just need to find an angle where the turrets aren't shooting, and simultaneously kill the win condition and the respawners. (aka IP) I honestly don't worry much about being caught at that point since a skulk is so expendable.
It also feels like much more of an "accomplishment" when a marine gets into an alien base, where as a skulk, it just seems kind of... expected to get in marine start. That's not even starting on the Fade. Did I mention that marines on infestation show up on the hivesight, that alien "turrets" are omnidirectional, and that aliens can see marines on heat vision?
Also, I think there needs to be more discussion on alien spawning. I really don't understand why UWE allows aliens to spawn almost instantly. The only way this does not occur is if marines storm the base and take out some eggs, or if all aliens die around the same time, which does not occur frequently. Effectively, there is no penalty for death, which results in super-aggressiveness on the alien side. If the point is to make aliens seem like a relentless force, there should still be some death penalty.
Perhaps once you spawn, you have a 20% health reduction that slowly regenerates back to max full health over a period of time. This wouldn't be stackable (i.e. if you keep dying over and over, your health would not keep falling). A specific example of this suggestion would be that once you die, you spawn as a skulk within a few seconds with 56 health and 5 armor as opposed to 70/5. Your max health increases by 1 every second, but only when on infestation. Thus, it would take 14 seconds on infestation to regain max health. Using this method, an alien is still punished for dying, but is able to maintain that aggressiveness. From the game's perspective, you could consider each spawning alien to temporarily be a "baby" that matures over 14 seconds into its adulthood (full max health).
Just an idea.
To me having something that blocks your vision every now and then is a way less harmful than having an objective indicator that no one sees.
This all combined to the fact that nobody can hear the ingame voice well enough makes commanding experience so frustrating that I'll mostly keep on playing organized games until voice and objective issues are solved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the waypoint should be less visually obstructive, but in order to address your concern there should be a pretty noticeable noise that plays when the com gives you a waypoint. Like a loud digital futuristic sonar ping-type noise, I can hear it in my head but I don't know where I've heard it before... Also to prevent player annoyance from noob coms or simple misclicking, there should be a short wait period before the noise can be played again (like maybe 1 second). This way it's still obvious to players when a waypoint is added or changed, yet it doesn't obstruct your vision so dangerously much.