pathing_settings

Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011 in Mapping
<div class="IPBDescription">How does it work?</div>Drifters (and I image Macs but haven't tested) cannot go through doors at their intended scale in my map, yet they do in Summit. In trying to find the solution I have noticed a new entity: pathing_settings. Placing the entity at default values didn't solve my problem but modifying to summit values did. Now the pathing works GREAT!

Could a dev explain how this entity works?

Edit: looking more into it.

The variables / summit / default (when different)

Cell size / 0.3
cell height / 0.2 / 0.4
Agent height / 2
Agent radius / 0.6
Agent max climb / 0.7 / 0.9
Agent max slope / 45
Region min size / 8
Region merge size / 20
Edge max height / 12
Vert per poly / 3 / 6
Detail sample distance / 6
Detail sample max / 1
Tile size / 48

Comments

  • JonacrabJonacrab Join Date: 2003-08-02 Member: 18705Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester
    Ive only done a little bit of modifying with the pathing settings, but another thing you can do is to turn on cheats, then type nav_debug in console, and it will show you how your pathing is working, with a blue mesh that will cover the floor where the pathing is supposed to be. More than likely there was a gap in the mesh at the location of the door, before you tweaked the pathing settings. Props have a tendency to mess up pathing, but they have an option you can set so they are ignored in pathing. This feature is new to version 187, it wasnt in the old versions, but is very useful in tweaking youre pathing, although at this point I believe there are still bugs in the pathing, as I still cant get rid of some of the pathing bugs dealing with stairs.

    On a side note, I would recommend doing youre pathing testing using macs, not drifters because youll find that Macs are the ones that will get stuck everywhere, drifters tend to work alot better.
  • wackowacko Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8283Members
    What bugs are you still having with the stairs?

    I think Jonacrab pretty much explained it but the settings allow you to tweak the mesh that you can visualize with nav_debug the blue are is where the mesh is being generated. A lot of times there is issues with slop or cell size which prevent some areas from touch and so the debugging can allow for a lot of that to be visualized.
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited October 2011
    Thanks that really helped out. I understand the pathing much better now and I can get a real nice continuous blue mesh :D

    Another thing I noticed. As a side of my map is at a 45 degree angle, I had to diminish the tile size. One of those tile points, which would of been off the map created a hole at that area as that point didn't exist. I corrected it by diminishing the tile size to 36 and it works well now, but there must be some effect on performance. It make me think the pathing has to be optimized according to the map. An open map can get away with a big tile size but will rely more on detail stemming from that point. My map has big areas but they are twisted around and connected by loads of little roots, so I need a smaller tile size and surely could rely less on detail stemming from the original points.

    In short. Do you know how the pathing mesh influences performance? If a smaller tile means a heavier load, could i get around that by limiting the way the mesh is created after/from that original point?

    I could figure a way by fiddling around with it but a proper explanation could really help making the mesh nice, clean and optimized.

    Thank again

    Edit: personally, activating pathing on stair models has solved all my issues in that point. And I have multiple stairs that follow each other and catwalks going in many directions. Are you talking about the models or geometry stairs? Maybe you have to tweak cell height or max climb variable. I have also left max slope at default 45.
  • wackowacko Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8283Members
    It really does not hurt it as much as you would think :P if you type in nav_stats you can see how much memory the mesh and sub parts of it take up :P its usually not very much.

    As for querying path information we make some optimization to make that a lot faster inside the lua code so I would not worry too much about perf
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    Cooool, you guys are the best :D
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members
    It's been a while since i have looked awaiting something in concrete. Is this the final system and are the hundreds of pathing waypoints i already put in way back heading for the wastebasket?

    Should I implement this and has the mapping guidelines been updated to reflect this change?

    So confused if a level left unattended over a period of time during engine development would be better off recycled rather than fixed.

    Clarification and documentation direction would be very much appreciated (link).
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members
    While playing around with this trying to link up areas I noticed that reversed faces I made to block lighting from outside and placed in the commander invisible group are also generated, is this normal? I also noted that after moving onto a new section it went from blue to orange with (pathing?) lines but I had to stand there for a few seconds before it generated. I can shoot a vid of this if I am being cryptic here.
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    The change of colour is normal i think, don't worry about it.

    It will generate areas that are not needed, it doesn't matter neither. As long as it is not connected to the main area macs/drifters won't be able to access it.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members
    Thanks bob, My pathing was really fubared but i copied the Pathing settings entity from summit and it fixed 90% of the issues and have some problems with a few areas not reaching to connect. What value do I change to expand it out so it connects?
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    This is what I'm using

    Cell size / 0.3
    cell height / 0.2
    Agent height / 2
    Agent radius / 0.6
    Agent max climb / 0.7
    Agent max slope / 45
    Region min size / 8
    Region merge size / 20
    Edge max height / 12
    Vert per poly / 6
    Detail sample distance / 6
    Detail sample max / 1
    Tile size / 36
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members
    I tried that, no go. I tried to increase Agent height to 2.5 thinking maybe it would give it a little more hight to slear the top step but all it did was make more breaks in the strait LOS areas. My previouse waypoints where working great. Why did we move to this hit and miss guess work system anyways? I even tried to make some faces to help it find it's way and it just ignored them.

    I'm so confused right now, Any variance I make from summits settings make it 10 times worse, All my props on the ground including stairs are set to True for including pathing. Is it still buggy or is this pathing system final?
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    I fixed the tight spots in Summit by removing certain wall props from pathing that further decreased the size of the pathing mesh.
    In addition to all the hints I'd like to add that removing props above tech points from pathing is important, because sometimes drifters get stuck there after a hive is built.
    And if you have trouble building at a tech spot, check for nearby (floor) props, like a pile of rocks or crates for example, that make the pathing mesh bumpy and might cause gaps in it above the tech point.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1880915:date=Oct 20 2011, 03:32 PM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Oct 20 2011, 03:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880915"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I fixed the tight spots in Summit by removing certain wall props from pathing that further decreased the size of the pathing mesh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    My issues mostly are at the top of sloped floors and some stairs and prop doors, there is no variance in width at the transition <i>(except door model)</i>. I am still stuck on how to fix. :(
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members
    It's been a while and i have tried everything, I get the best results when I go back to the values Evil_Bob has in the first post.

    This is the best I can get as I tried everything, even placing props on the floors to try and connect them.

    <img src="http://www.super-nova-team.com/ns2/clandestine/navissue.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Any clues on what to do to fix this?
  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    I can't help you from the screens, though if you send me your file I'll gladly take a look.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1879984:date=Oct 15 2011, 04:38 AM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Oct 15 2011, 04:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1879984"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's been a while since i have looked awaiting something in concrete. Is this the final system and are the hundreds of pathing waypoints i already put in way back heading for the wastebasket?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ground and Air waypoints are being scrapped (alongside some other entities) I'm working on ns2_sample as changes go into the new build and will also update the wiki once 188 goes live eventually :)
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members
    So still having the waypoints in may be causing my issue? Where did you see they where scrapped?
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    Did you actually try the pathing at these questionable areas?
    Because I have a lot of areas in Summit where the pathing mesh just goes slightly below surfaces due to dealing with all the height difference and slopes and these areas don't cause issues.

    Are the props on the floor in the two lower snapshots included into pathing?
    Try to enable them and/or more important put a flat face below the prop so there isn't a gap in your brushwork.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1885102:date=Nov 16 2011, 03:08 AM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Nov 16 2011, 03:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So still having the waypoints in may be causing my issue? Where did you see they where scrapped?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They won't be causing problems in the next build (188), since they are no longer used at all. I'm not sure about 187, but I think they aren't used in this build either? Or perhaps they are used to generate the pathing mesh currently for 187... Hehe to test this, you could perhaps remove them all. Including their groups and save as a test version of your map to see if the pathing mesh it still generated :P
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1885179:date=Nov 16 2011, 06:46 AM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Nov 16 2011, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1885179"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you actually try the pathing at these questionable areas?
    Because I have a lot of areas in Summit where the pathing mesh just goes slightly below surfaces due to dealing with all the height difference and slopes and these areas don't cause issues.

    Are the props on the floor in the two lower snapshots included into pathing?
    Try to enable them and/or more important put a flat face below the prop so there isn't a gap in your brushwork.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I tried with drifters and they stop at those points or take a long route to get to other side where it does connect. The screen on the left is all faces (no props) and the one on the lower right , the prop is set to be included and it is mapped by the mesh. the faces in that shot are not. I tried to use collision geometry to connect with no effect also. In the upper left shot it breaks up for no reason at all along the long stairs.

    Also, should i scrap the old waypoints before the next build or will they still be in the editor so i can do it later? I went through this missing model error nightmare early on when they renamed a model i used all over the place.
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    Waypoints are still in summit and don't cause issues. They are just ignored afaik.
    Collision geometry is ignored by the pathing mesh afaik, so you might wanna try a simple face.
  • SN.WolfSN.Wolf Join Date: 2010-03-29 Member: 71115Members
    I tried a simple face and even removing props close to stairs from the include but still no go. I had the old pathing 99% perfected, I guess at this point I can only hope something good comes from the next patch to make this more user friendly because it seems to dislike me.
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