Making Drifters cool, adding alien end-game options
SmellyTerror
Join Date: 2011-08-22 Member: 118027Members
Join Date: 2011-08-22 Member: 118027Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Generally being awesome</div>A Newbie approaches!
Okee dokee. Suggestions from a new player, which are probably pretty terrible (I won't cry if you mock them), but hey, might offer something new.
Trying to keep these minimalist as possible - no new models or anything, just alterations to the existing stuff. I'm very conscious of the atmosphere of the game, and apart from existing balance or gameplay issues (which could well be solved with new critters or other stuff alreadt in the pipeline), I want to help add to that.
So for the first post: Drifters! (and also: Gorges! All of these suggestions could be added to the Gorge ability list, to put these powahs into player hands. I just like the idea of Drifters being a high priority because they're funky and they give something for the Alien commander to do, and Gorges are already priority targets).
We already have the ability to let the Drifter Flare into a flash-bang. That's nice, but I think it'd be really cool if Drifters could become cooler. They could be high priority targets that move stupidly fast and provide commander support to the Kharaa outside of buildings - that could be really cool. Holy crap, here come 3 drifters screaming past! Kill 'em quick!
So:
<b>1. EMP blast. </b>
Works largely the same as blind-bomb, but makes all structures in the blast area (a fairly large one) *unpowered* for the duration. You could just add that to the Flare effect, but you'd need (IMO) to make the alien commander spend resources to upgrade each specific Drifter to be used in such an attack.
This could give the aliens an immediate end-game option against turret farms. Note well that it'd take some teamwork but be human-counterable - turrets are easily fooled as they track their first target, so a couple of Fades could tag-team down a corridor to cover the Drifter in. A human player on the turret line, though, would hopefully spot and nuke the Drifter before it gets close... unless a Lerk sprayed to block sight. Then you'd hope someone was grenading *past* the attack just in case.
I think it adds more than just anti-turret spam / end-game abilities. Seeing that little speedy ###### coming would be scary, killing them would be easy and satisfying, and would give even a rifle-armed noob something useful to when supporting a defence. If the duration was fairly short (7 seconds?) you'd be trying to hold out until the power came back up, which could be tense, and trying to prevent a second Drifter getting to you spawning area...
I would also add an element of strategy to turret placement, as you don't want too many caught in the blast.
<b>2. Egg-splosion. </b>
Sacrifice a Drifter <b>on infestation</b> to spawn a few eggs (3? more?). The eggs are used as a priority for nearby dying aliens, and decay in a similar way to alien structures outside infestation (that is, they *always* are considered outside infestation, to prevent massive egg spam).
This gives to advatanges: first, if you've kept a Drifter or two tucked out of sight, you can pop them for eggs when your hive is under attack. That lets you overcome a Hive siege - but only if you kept a Drifter somewhere. This in turn encourages the Marines to poke about in odd corners, and poking about in odd corners leads to faces being eaten, and fun for everyone.
Second, you can push an assault by spawning eggs right outside the enemy strongpoint, but only if you could bring your infestation up and keep the Drifters alive to that point.
Drifters would automatically have this ability - but remember, it can only be done if the Drifter is on infestation.
<b>3. Plague-Drifter.</b>
A single-creature upgrade (ie only a Drifter who's been upgraded can perform this function, and maybe they can change colour...?). When this Drifter dies (or is exploded by their commander), all Marines and structures within the (small) blast area gets a parasite.
Cooler? It's a special parasite. I dunno, it's green or something. Anyway, when the affected thing dies, *if* there are no Cysts within a small area, then a Gorge-style mini-cyst forms at the point of death. Dunno how easy that'd be to implement, though... Fire a Gorge mini-cyst attack directly down as part of the death event?
Note that this could actually confuse sentry gun targetting as a fight continues...
---
<b>Guff:</b>
If all this sounds like I think the aliens are underpowered, I don't. What I do think is that they lack options to some degree, especially against a dense marine formation of turrets and /or players. I also think the Alien Commander has a pretty dull job compared with the Marine counterpart. It'd be nice if the aliens didn't come down to brute-force, but for assaults at the moment (at least in Pinnacle) that's pretty much what happens if the Marines get established.
Played a game last night where the Aliens had kept us Marines to two res nodes all game (alternating FC and Vent), and they got to Fades. But we just managed to hold out with Flamers, then we consolidated with Turrets, then we pushed with nades. The Alien players raged, told us to rr over and over, then some of them quit.
But the Marines won.
Now the raging aliens (they were the "best" players on the side) were - I don't want to be rude, but they were, I think, stat-obsessed. I didn't see them go for the power in Marine start more than a couple of times, and never together. They tried to nail the obs a couple of times too, but again, never together, never repeatedly. They were more interested in K/D ratios, it seemed to me. They DID have options.
...but in their defence, it's not a FUN option (I stand and bite this box-thingy until I die and respawn or retreat and heal, rinse and repeat), as soon as the marines notice they can stop it if they choose to, and even if they succeed it'll be back if that assault fails. We built a second obs. Not hard. Having one viable option (kill that particular building inside all those defences) is not fun, IMO.
SO, if you're buffing the alien late game with viable assault options, then I think the Marines need a little something early-mid game. A free, insta-build first IP would be a good start.
Okee dokee. Suggestions from a new player, which are probably pretty terrible (I won't cry if you mock them), but hey, might offer something new.
Trying to keep these minimalist as possible - no new models or anything, just alterations to the existing stuff. I'm very conscious of the atmosphere of the game, and apart from existing balance or gameplay issues (which could well be solved with new critters or other stuff alreadt in the pipeline), I want to help add to that.
So for the first post: Drifters! (and also: Gorges! All of these suggestions could be added to the Gorge ability list, to put these powahs into player hands. I just like the idea of Drifters being a high priority because they're funky and they give something for the Alien commander to do, and Gorges are already priority targets).
We already have the ability to let the Drifter Flare into a flash-bang. That's nice, but I think it'd be really cool if Drifters could become cooler. They could be high priority targets that move stupidly fast and provide commander support to the Kharaa outside of buildings - that could be really cool. Holy crap, here come 3 drifters screaming past! Kill 'em quick!
So:
<b>1. EMP blast. </b>
Works largely the same as blind-bomb, but makes all structures in the blast area (a fairly large one) *unpowered* for the duration. You could just add that to the Flare effect, but you'd need (IMO) to make the alien commander spend resources to upgrade each specific Drifter to be used in such an attack.
This could give the aliens an immediate end-game option against turret farms. Note well that it'd take some teamwork but be human-counterable - turrets are easily fooled as they track their first target, so a couple of Fades could tag-team down a corridor to cover the Drifter in. A human player on the turret line, though, would hopefully spot and nuke the Drifter before it gets close... unless a Lerk sprayed to block sight. Then you'd hope someone was grenading *past* the attack just in case.
I think it adds more than just anti-turret spam / end-game abilities. Seeing that little speedy ###### coming would be scary, killing them would be easy and satisfying, and would give even a rifle-armed noob something useful to when supporting a defence. If the duration was fairly short (7 seconds?) you'd be trying to hold out until the power came back up, which could be tense, and trying to prevent a second Drifter getting to you spawning area...
I would also add an element of strategy to turret placement, as you don't want too many caught in the blast.
<b>2. Egg-splosion. </b>
Sacrifice a Drifter <b>on infestation</b> to spawn a few eggs (3? more?). The eggs are used as a priority for nearby dying aliens, and decay in a similar way to alien structures outside infestation (that is, they *always* are considered outside infestation, to prevent massive egg spam).
This gives to advatanges: first, if you've kept a Drifter or two tucked out of sight, you can pop them for eggs when your hive is under attack. That lets you overcome a Hive siege - but only if you kept a Drifter somewhere. This in turn encourages the Marines to poke about in odd corners, and poking about in odd corners leads to faces being eaten, and fun for everyone.
Second, you can push an assault by spawning eggs right outside the enemy strongpoint, but only if you could bring your infestation up and keep the Drifters alive to that point.
Drifters would automatically have this ability - but remember, it can only be done if the Drifter is on infestation.
<b>3. Plague-Drifter.</b>
A single-creature upgrade (ie only a Drifter who's been upgraded can perform this function, and maybe they can change colour...?). When this Drifter dies (or is exploded by their commander), all Marines and structures within the (small) blast area gets a parasite.
Cooler? It's a special parasite. I dunno, it's green or something. Anyway, when the affected thing dies, *if* there are no Cysts within a small area, then a Gorge-style mini-cyst forms at the point of death. Dunno how easy that'd be to implement, though... Fire a Gorge mini-cyst attack directly down as part of the death event?
Note that this could actually confuse sentry gun targetting as a fight continues...
---
<b>Guff:</b>
If all this sounds like I think the aliens are underpowered, I don't. What I do think is that they lack options to some degree, especially against a dense marine formation of turrets and /or players. I also think the Alien Commander has a pretty dull job compared with the Marine counterpart. It'd be nice if the aliens didn't come down to brute-force, but for assaults at the moment (at least in Pinnacle) that's pretty much what happens if the Marines get established.
Played a game last night where the Aliens had kept us Marines to two res nodes all game (alternating FC and Vent), and they got to Fades. But we just managed to hold out with Flamers, then we consolidated with Turrets, then we pushed with nades. The Alien players raged, told us to rr over and over, then some of them quit.
But the Marines won.
Now the raging aliens (they were the "best" players on the side) were - I don't want to be rude, but they were, I think, stat-obsessed. I didn't see them go for the power in Marine start more than a couple of times, and never together. They tried to nail the obs a couple of times too, but again, never together, never repeatedly. They were more interested in K/D ratios, it seemed to me. They DID have options.
...but in their defence, it's not a FUN option (I stand and bite this box-thingy until I die and respawn or retreat and heal, rinse and repeat), as soon as the marines notice they can stop it if they choose to, and even if they succeed it'll be back if that assault fails. We built a second obs. Not hard. Having one viable option (kill that particular building inside all those defences) is not fun, IMO.
SO, if you're buffing the alien late game with viable assault options, then I think the Marines need a little something early-mid game. A free, insta-build first IP would be a good start.
Comments
Having a similar ability to the drifter would be somewhat symmetric which UWE is trying to avoid in the making of this game.
TIP:If you are to post more topics in the ideas and suggestions, I suggest that you try to talk more about the idea and what it does then balance and introduction :p
People on forums are often lazy and if the developers are to find interest in your idea you should keep it short :D
It also seems odd that an alien race without any type of technology would be affected by an EMP.
Must be the nanites...
Must be the nanites...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nanites indeed ;)
Having a similar ability to the drifter would be somewhat symmetric which UWE is trying to avoid in the making of this game.
TIP:If you are to post more topics in the ideas and suggestions, I suggest that you try to talk more about the idea and what it does then balance and introduction :p
People on forums are often lazy and if the developers are to find interest in your idea you should keep it short :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I appreciate the time people took to answer, and I do appreciate the friendly tone, even if it seems absolutely no-one bothered to read the whole post. I don't mean for this post to sound hostile, but yeah, it's going to be criticism.
Read the Divine Wind post, and see how most of the posts on this forum are pretty much exactly what they asked for people NOT to do. I guess the stickied post is TLDR for everyone here too, huh? <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=105803" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/ind...howtopic=105803</a>
I've posted reasonings, alternatives, and objectives, as the mods themselves have requested. No-one bothered to address them. Quite the opposite.
What's the point of a MAC having EMP in this context? So what? How does that achieve <b>the objectives I've stated</b>?
1. Address turret farms, provide a viable end-game for aliens
2. Make life more interesting for Alien Comm
3. Make the Drifter an interesting, high-priority target (making an existing resource more fun and interesting)
4. Add to the atmoshpere of the game.
(MACs also detroy alien buildings with ease. What's the point of having them with EMP them as well?)
As I mentioned a couple of times, <b>Drifters already have flare</b>. An ability to shut down nearby buildings or at least turrets is simply an upgrade of an <b>already existing ability</b>. I don't really see how asymmetry is an argument when I'm suggesting a similar effect to one already implemented which addresses a range of present issues, and you're countering with an ability not implemented that seems to address no issues at all.
No-one bothered to discuss the second two upgrades for Drifters that I suggested (Eggs, which partly address the Hive-rush issue as well as allowing a sustained assault option; and Plague, which lets the Drifter become a decent scout for the Alien Comm). No-one bothered to mention the reasons for the change even to disagree with them. If I thought people had just skimmed until they saw "EMP", then went to post, how would anything people said here correct that view?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People on forums are often lazy and if the developers are to find interest in your idea you should keep it short<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If people on the forums are so lazy they can't be bothered to deal with elements of an idea that can actually impact the game and actually give the Devs any guidance at all, or to post in the way that <b>the sticky right there on the top of the forum tells them to</b>, I have to wonder why they bother coming in here at all.
Animals on earth can fire an electric pulse (electric eel, for example). Not much of a reach for mutant aliens to do it, IMO.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_organ_discharge" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_organ_discharge</a>
Putting aside whether squad spawning is a good idea, I really like this one as the alien equivalent or counter to marine squad spawning.
Would make a great siege weapon. Aliens could run in taking fire while the alien commander attached a drifter to the power node
If it's left for x amount of time it could start to swell up like a leech making it a bigger target and easier to kill.
When its full you could detach it and use it for something eg: extra infestation pustules or a free chamber or some thing like that.
This... makes me angry, it happened to my idea, and I've been too busy with fixing my study habits to fix up my idea post. You seem like a reasonable, imaginative, and logical kind of person, so I read your original post(before reading any other posts mind you in this thread), and here's my oppinion.
First idea, emp blast. I like it, but there is that aspect of the symmetrical aspects unknown worlds is trying to avoid, this isn't just a shades of grey symmetrical avoidance, they don't want the drifter to emp buildings, and the mac to stun organisms... it's technically different, but overall the same.
something that might be cool though, and I think the main reason for this first idea, is the fact that you want the drifters to be able to counter turrets in some way.
So what if, when the drifter does it's flash thing, it also mucks up turret sensors, so they start fritzing out, aiming in random directions and firing, should they hurt marines when this happens? if FF is on, then yes, otherwise it will mainly waste turret ammo and also prevent the turrets from doing any serious damage to the aliens.
Note: the marines should also be able to fix the turrets by whacking them or welding them (as in, either thing works).
SECOND IDEA OF YOURS: I think it's a great idea and can prevent that annoying marine rush short end game we often get... make it a tier 1 upgradable ability from the crag, and then you can see some interesting alien play... like having 3 skulks hatch out just outside of marine base.
For balance: Since eggs normally spawn right near the hive, make res required increase linearly based on their distance from the closest hive... HAVE the amount of res required show up in big yellow text above the spot the commander wants to drop the eggs. So a 3 egg drop from a single drifter would cost 1 res if right next to the hive.
THIRD IDEA: This is getting really crazy in my ideas, first, I like your idea, and would be fine if it was like it is in it's current form. Now for some brainstormed additions, that I am just putting out there because that's what idea sharing is for... to share ideas.
Make the marines explode in a poisonous gas on death with this nasty parasite, it functions much the same way as the lerk gas.
Or, make the marines explode in gorge gas, so it hurts marines and heals aliens... but it's only worth about one spray worth.
For turrets: make them start to crawl around, and generally be annoying... perhaps let alien commander control orientation of infested turrets.
Allow aliens to spawn out of near dead marines, so a marine on less than 10 health, will explode into a skulk... creepy.
Theres my ideas, please check out my power node idea on page 2 of the ideas and suggestions section, it also has a solution to those long and boring end games.