My thoughts on NS2
henzee
Join Date: 2009-05-26 Member: 67483Members
Join Date: 2009-05-26 Member: 67483Members
I've been playing NS1 for years, i still do almost everyday (ENSL gathers). I havent been active here on forums becouse game has been under development so long that I havent seen any point to comment small details of unfinished game.
However I started to read some posts here and my face was like ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
Posts like "End the jump spam" "..marines have just spammed jump while strafing left and right and it can be very difficult to hit them" really make me wonder what people are waiting from this game. Do they want game like COD/BF2 with aliens or what?
Personally I loved in NS1 when I learned new tricks to move around as marine or as alien. Its not only about how well you aim but also about getting to right positions when covering/holding and so on. And as a bonus you have to adapt while playing becouse there is no situations that happen time after time identically like in last game. That makes NS1 so fast, different and enjoyable.
I get it that with new game there comes new stuff, but imho the changes should not be so dramatic. Why change the game to something else that it has been for a years and made players happy. Forexample DOTA2 that will have beta out soon has only basically changed graphics and added extras (e.g reconnect) without changing gameplay itslef which is great and players over the world love it. I personally like flamer as a new addition, but new fade and skulk, really? I hope skulks get smaller and faster, gets skillbased movement and fades get faster and marines atleast can hit them while "blinking".
I dont think NS1 is perfect and NS2 should be just like it, but why change something good to something that doesnt seem to work so well? Biggest problem with NS1 is that its hard to learn for new players if you want to do something else than just run from point A to point B and try to kill whatever you see and after dying try it again. If something, that should be the thing to change in NS2. I still have hope for you.
Please dont make another boring FPS game,
henzee aka koira
However I started to read some posts here and my face was like ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
Posts like "End the jump spam" "..marines have just spammed jump while strafing left and right and it can be very difficult to hit them" really make me wonder what people are waiting from this game. Do they want game like COD/BF2 with aliens or what?
Personally I loved in NS1 when I learned new tricks to move around as marine or as alien. Its not only about how well you aim but also about getting to right positions when covering/holding and so on. And as a bonus you have to adapt while playing becouse there is no situations that happen time after time identically like in last game. That makes NS1 so fast, different and enjoyable.
I get it that with new game there comes new stuff, but imho the changes should not be so dramatic. Why change the game to something else that it has been for a years and made players happy. Forexample DOTA2 that will have beta out soon has only basically changed graphics and added extras (e.g reconnect) without changing gameplay itslef which is great and players over the world love it. I personally like flamer as a new addition, but new fade and skulk, really? I hope skulks get smaller and faster, gets skillbased movement and fades get faster and marines atleast can hit them while "blinking".
I dont think NS1 is perfect and NS2 should be just like it, but why change something good to something that doesnt seem to work so well? Biggest problem with NS1 is that its hard to learn for new players if you want to do something else than just run from point A to point B and try to kill whatever you see and after dying try it again. If something, that should be the thing to change in NS2. I still have hope for you.
Please dont make another boring FPS game,
henzee aka koira
Comments
However I started to read some posts here and my face was like ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
Posts like "End the jump spam" "..marines have just spammed jump while strafing left and right and it can be very difficult to hit them" really make me wonder what people are waiting from this game. Do they want game like COD/BF2 with aliens or what?
Personally I loved in NS1 when I learned new tricks to move around as marine or as alien. Its not only about how well you aim but also about getting to right positions when covering/holding and so on. And as a bonus you have to adapt while playing becouse there is no situations that happen time after time identically like in last game. That makes NS1 so fast, different and enjoyable.
I get it that with new game there comes new stuff, but imho the changes should not be so dramatic. Why change the game to something else that it has been for a years and made players happy. Forexample DOTA2 that will have beta out soon has only basically changed graphics and added extras (e.g reconnect) without changing gameplay itslef which is great and players over the world love it. I personally like flamer as a new addition, but new fade and skulk, really? I hope skulks get smaller and faster, gets skillbased movement and fades get faster and marines atleast can hit them while "blinking".
I dont think NS1 is perfect and NS2 should be just like it, but why change something good to something that doesnt seem to work so well? Biggest problem with NS1 is that its hard to learn for new players if you want to do something else than just run from point A to point B and try to kill whatever you see and after dying try it again. If something, that should be the thing to change in NS2. I still have hope for you.
Please dont make another boring FPS game,
henzee aka koira<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you. I have the same feelings about NS1 and how NS2 is shaping up.
Just remember that even though there are a couple of people who our very vocal about their opinions (such as myself) the devs dont always listen. This forum is a small percentage of people who actually bought pre-ordered NS2, but a large percentage of the loud mouths =) Help out the ones who are well spoken and you agree with by quoting them with a "+1". Helps stop repetitive posts. If one person says it best why say it again. Plus it lets the devs see when complaints are ridiculous or warranted.
Above all don't lose faith. They created NS1 after all and if anyone has the essence of NS1 at heart it is them. <3 UWE.
On a negative note, if they screw up we will create a NS1 mod and proceed from there lol. (either way they make money).
Indeed, ns_veil2 should be on the maplist already :)
Maybe the thing I would like to see is that they rather take things from NS1 and then start adding new stuff. I dont mean there should be bunnyhopping for example, but I would like to see version of this game that actually can be played more than 5minutes at the time rather than version with all that new stuff everywhere without anything working out togather. Basics first, then the new stuff.
Someone will make an NS1 mod regardless of how NS2 turns out. Nostalgia is a powerful force....
True, and it will be sad if that mod is more popular than the real NS2. It's a real possibility though.
its sad seeing ns2 moving away from ns1. But it is beta still, so who knows.
as for OP, you're not the first to say what you did.
Many old vets feel the same way, and the current ns2 is the dumbed-down version of what ns1 was.
I hope more gameplay elements can be brought from ns1, and of course skill based movement, not just some cheap tricks to compensated form of it.
With that being said NS2 should have changes and there are: power nodes, alien commander, resource model, robotics, drifters and the list goes on. These are a good thing.
UWE does not need to get fancy with jetpacks, heavies and onos. Just get them out in a basic NS1 manner, polish and release.
NS2 is the best product on Steam right now.
May as well knock that 2 right off NS2 then and just make it Natural Selection
Otherwise i agree with this,more or less.
if someone wants to make a mod to where everythings just like ns1 except graphics,go for it, though UWE is probably more for targeting poeple who've never played NS1, or ever heard of it. I never neard of ns1 till i got ns2, but i enjoy ns2..there will be ALOT of sales towards people like that,and those people wont know what to do at first (gasp!). I mean, I doubt most people who first played ns1 became pro in a day, it took alot of time and effort, but nowadays,kids just want to get into the fray and have fun(or rage) thats just how folks are now.
*ding ding ding ding ding*
In fairness though probably not exactly the same game with better graphics, as not everything in NS1 worked out well, but yeah in retrospect an NS:Source would've sold like hotcakes.
Is that really what people want? For UWE not to improve themselves by getting new ideas and the like?" Just up graphics and animations and resell the game..the people will LOVE it" that's kind of lame if you ask me, but it'd still work and people'd still buy it.
1) I really don't mind that they unhinged the commander from the tedium of passing out weapons for marines. Not to mention the "school of fish" swarm to get the lone shotgun you can afford that the lowest skilled player usually picks up and dies instantly with. The new method and personal res mechanic is better (and helps with balancing the res model). There is no more "commander can I have shotgun!" anymore, outside of the initial research.
Good commanders will still take a hands on role with their marines with orders, upgrades, and coordination. Instead of dropping 5 shotties for a hive rush, I just tell everyone to buy shotties after the beacon and pass out a few if I can afford them.
2) MACs are useful. Public games in NS1 were a pain trying to get uncooperative teammates to build your structures. They're a bit expensive for what you get currently and I usually don't get them until late in the game when I'm swimming in res, but they'll likely get better as time goes on. Comp. games probably won't use them along with turrets much.
3) Being alien comm is like a relaxing vacation compared to the marine comm. It's slightly less asymmetrical than not having a comm at all, but further additions can help to widen the differences and feel of it.
It's too early to tell on many of these things without them being fully implemented to pass judgement on the final product.
NS1 was great, but it wasn't perfect and had some issues that needed addressed in NS2. I think UWE is attempting to make the game that many of us wanted to have in NS1, but wasn't really feasible on that old engine.
I doubt this will be true. NS1:Spark will suffer from many of the same problems as NS1:Goldsrc which will lead to a dedicated, but limited, mod community. NS1 was great and I will definitely play a NS1:Spark mod, but lets not kid ourselves that it will be more popular than UWE flagship commercial game.
However I started to read some posts here and my face was like ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
Posts like "End the jump spam" "..marines have just spammed jump while strafing left and right and it can be very difficult to hit them" really make me wonder what people are waiting from this game. Do they want game like COD/BF2 with aliens or what?
Personally I loved in NS1 when I learned new tricks to move around as marine or as alien. Its not only about how well you aim but also about getting to right positions when covering/holding and so on. And as a bonus you have to adapt while playing becouse there is no situations that happen time after time identically like in last game. That makes NS1 so fast, different and enjoyable.
I get it that with new game there comes new stuff, but imho the changes should not be so dramatic. Why change the game to something else that it has been for a years and made players happy. Forexample DOTA2 that will have beta out soon has only basically changed graphics and added extras (e.g reconnect) without changing gameplay itslef which is great and players over the world love it. I personally like flamer as a new addition, but new fade and skulk, really? I hope skulks get smaller and faster, gets skillbased movement and fades get faster and marines atleast can hit them while "blinking".
I dont think NS1 is perfect and NS2 should be just like it, but why change something good to something that doesnt seem to work so well? Biggest problem with NS1 is that its hard to learn for new players if you want to do something else than just run from point A to point B and try to kill whatever you see and after dying try it again. If something, that should be the thing to change in NS2. I still have hope for you.
Please dont make another boring FPS game,
henzee aka koira<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
lol irony
+1
Developers have already answered to this endless debate about bhop etc on another thread (you have to search it by yourself :D)
I still play a lot of NS1 (I play since 5-6 years non-stop even missed school sometimes for it.. (but still got my diplom ^^)) and I play NS2 sometimes (always topscorer for those who say bhop is for no-aiming skill hackers..) it is SO frustrating being a skulk in a long corridor and having the only choice to walk stupidly in front of the marines and die.. I know developpers are working on a new movement system, easier to learn (if they can find something better than bhop..) but for now I really don't see any advantage removing bhop for gameplay, it is just a source of frustration for those who like interesting and intense combat
Thats really dumb if you want an identical game with better graphics. If UWE does that the general public will not buy their game and they will go out of business for sure.
Thats really dumb if you want an identical game with better graphics. If UWE does that the general public will not buy their game and they will go out of business for sure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only people it would hurt are the people who didn't like NS1. NS1 vets are happy, general public is happy since they didn't play NS1.
So imo the best way to fix this is. Have 2 game modes.
ns1 game mode - plays 100% like ns1.
ns2 game mode - plays like how ever uwe wants it to.
Now since they already know how ns1 is because they made it like 10 years ago. It shouldnt be hard to make a game mode for ns2 that plays 100% like ns1.
So let me guess someone is going to say just let a modder do it so uwe can focus on ns2 game mode. Well i think uwe can do a much better job. There the ones that did it to start with.
Tbh i would like to play ns1 but im not going to go download it. So i hope uwe will make a ns1 gamemode for ns2 because tbh im not really enjoying the gameplay so far.
I love the idea of rts/fps and the setting is cool. But the gameplay is meh.
So imo the best way to fix this is. Have 2 game modes.
ns1 game mode - plays 100% like ns1.
ns2 game mode - plays like how ever uwe wants it to.
Now since they already know how ns1 is because they made it like 10 years ago. It shouldnt be hard to make a game mode for ns2 that plays 100% like ns1.
So let me guess someone is going to say just let a modder do it so uwe can focus on ns2 game mode. Well i think uwe can do a much better job. There the ones that did it to start with.
Tbh i would like to play ns1 but im not going to go download it. So i hope uwe will make a ns1 gamemode for ns2 because tbh im not really enjoying the gameplay so far.
I love the idea of rts/fps and the setting is cool. But the gameplay is meh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am just going to LOL this... 2 games modes, hahaha, wow.
You "people" really need to stop using the lingo "It shouldn't be to hard to make". You don't know what is involved in game development (clearly), so don't make accusations...
Thats really dumb if you want an identical game with better graphics. If UWE does that the general public will not buy their game and they will go out of business for sure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why you think that? There are still lots of active NS1 players out there, and those who are inactive are just waiting for NS2. And as I wrote earlier, I do like some changes, but I just dont get the point of making a game that tries to please everybody because they usually end up unpleasant for all.
I think 100% of those who dislike NS1 after playing it more than 3h arent here in forums and the people here in forums who havent played NS1 would actually enjoy the game if they just had some help on learning it. Which again brings us back to what I said earlier: Take things from old that has been proven good and add learnability. Basic software engineering / usability engineering.
well said. you just highlighted many of the same things I never liked about ns2, I hope someone will take notice of it.
You "people" really need to stop using the lingo "It shouldn't be to hard to make". You don't know what is involved in game development (clearly), so don't make accusations...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
right because making game modes for a video game is so hard.
No there aren't, NS1 has a tiny active population, NS2 is going to have to do an awful lot better than that if it's going to be a good game.
I expect to see fifty full servers at all times, at least, otherwise it's pretty bad.
<!--quoteo(post=1870714:date=Aug 23 2011, 04:19 PM:name=vizionz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vizionz @ Aug 23 2011, 04:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am just going to LOL this... 2 games modes, hahaha, wow.
You "people" really need to stop using the lingo "It shouldn't be to hard to make". You don't know what is involved in game development (clearly), so don't make accusations...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do, and I have to say, making two game modes distinct only in superficial functionality is incredibly easy compared to making a functional engine and all the art assets to put in it.
You can change balance numbers in the class scripts in five minutes, figuring out why your renderer isn't handling a certain shader effect properly is far harder, and produces a miniscule effect ingame most of the time.
It's so easy in fact the community can do it itself, as soon as people start modding properly I bet the first things you'll see is MvM, AvA, NS2 combat, and NS1 classic gamemodes.
I expect to see fifty full servers at all times, at least, otherwise it's pretty bad.
I do, and I have to say, making two game modes distinct only in superficial functionality is incredibly easy compared to making a functional engine and all the art assets to put in it.
You can change balance numbers in the class scripts in five minutes, figuring out why your renderer isn't handling a certain shader effect properly is far harder, and produces a miniscule effect ingame most of the time.
It's so easy in fact the community can do it itself, as soon as people start modding properly I bet the first things you'll see is MvM, AvA, NS2 combat, and NS1 classic gamemodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Making "NS1 classic gamemode" is not just changing stuff. NS1 gameplay is so much different atm from NS2 that this version would need also e.g different maps.
And its not like NS1 has ever had players as much as CS or other popular games like that, so you cannot expect as many players these days anymore as they do have. Still NS1 was most popular hl-mod after CS and for a reason. Only wrong way to go here is to even try to compete with popular FPS games because graphics just dont reach to the same. So making a game that offers something different from those. NS1 is FPS+RTS game and it should stay like that to keep the players and attract more with its originality.
NS2 is simpler and I get it why, but making game simpler isint always good or atleast the only way to make the game newbiefriendly. Im not all against the new stuff, I do like somethings like flamethrower that NS2 has, but it just seems that the game is becoming somekind of trench warfare -game where you just fight for one spot for 30min and the one who loses that loses the game. And what comes to commanders, i feel like they dont have anyother value on the game than building RT's and/or dropping medpacks. I just dont see the point of alien commander and compative gaming being 5v5 on field + alien and marine commander.