Supply Cache
Hugh
CameramanSan Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
CameramanSan Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
<div class="IPBDescription">Rationalising Forward Armouries</div>Hi everyone,
It is my experience that marine play often involves the construction of a primary base, from which squads move out to attack hives, take territory, kill harvesters. Often, marines will establish strong points in territory they hold, to facilitate holding that territory and pushing for more territory. These strong points are usually composed of:
1. Phase Gate | To allow squads to move quickly between primary base and strong points
2. Armoury | To allow squads to rearm and heal
3. Sentry Guns | To delay alien attacks on the strong point
4. Power Pack | To power the strong point (optional depending on power situation)
It is my opinion that the armoury is a 'primary base' building. It has a delicate appearance, and allows marines to buy weapons as well as re-arm/heal.
The addition of a 'supply cache' structure would enhance the strong point experience. Costing around half that of an armoury, and having half the hitpoints, a 'supply cache' structure would allow marines to rearm and heal, but not buy weapons.
The 'supply cache' model would be rugged and battle hardened. Rough. Ammunition and medical kits would be visible. It would be hip height. The model would potentially be designed to look good in series, to allow marines to construct 'sandbag' barriers at strong points (Similar to supply depots in SC2).
The addition of the 'supply cache' structure would improve aesthetics by reducing armoury spam around the map.
Thoughts on this idea?
It is my experience that marine play often involves the construction of a primary base, from which squads move out to attack hives, take territory, kill harvesters. Often, marines will establish strong points in territory they hold, to facilitate holding that territory and pushing for more territory. These strong points are usually composed of:
1. Phase Gate | To allow squads to move quickly between primary base and strong points
2. Armoury | To allow squads to rearm and heal
3. Sentry Guns | To delay alien attacks on the strong point
4. Power Pack | To power the strong point (optional depending on power situation)
It is my opinion that the armoury is a 'primary base' building. It has a delicate appearance, and allows marines to buy weapons as well as re-arm/heal.
The addition of a 'supply cache' structure would enhance the strong point experience. Costing around half that of an armoury, and having half the hitpoints, a 'supply cache' structure would allow marines to rearm and heal, but not buy weapons.
The 'supply cache' model would be rugged and battle hardened. Rough. Ammunition and medical kits would be visible. It would be hip height. The model would potentially be designed to look good in series, to allow marines to construct 'sandbag' barriers at strong points (Similar to supply depots in SC2).
The addition of the 'supply cache' structure would improve aesthetics by reducing armoury spam around the map.
Thoughts on this idea?
Comments
Though, it'd also be nice if the cost of those other structures dropped a bit as well. Right now, a forward marine base, as you've described costs between 50 (if only using 1 sentry) to 70 (if using 3 sentries) TRes. That's a serious expense for something that will likely become less useful as the action shifts to other parts of the map.
Though, it'd also be nice if the cost of those other structures dropped a bit as well. Right now, a forward marine base, as you've described costs between 50 (if only using 1 sentry) to 70 (if using 3 sentries) TRes. That's a serious expense for something that will likely become less useful as the action shifts to other parts of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're joking right? By the time that you move to a secondy base all your upgrades and weapons are probably researched and you're stockpiling rez, also do you think it's any cheaper for aliens to setup a second base? honestly.
It is my experience that marine play often involves the construction of a primary base, from which squads move out to attack hives, take territory, kill harvesters. Often, marines will establish strong points in territory they hold, to facilitate holding that territory and pushing for more territory. These strong points are usually composed of:
1. Phase Gate | To allow squads to move quickly between primary base and strong points
2. Armoury | To allow squads to rearm and heal
3. Sentry Guns | To delay alien attacks on the strong point
4. Power Pack | To power the strong point (optional depending on power situation)
It is my opinion that the armoury is a 'primary base' building. It has a delicate appearance, and allows marines to buy weapons as well as re-arm/heal.
The addition of a 'supply cache' structure would enhance the strong point experience. Costing around half that of an armoury, and having half the hitpoints, a 'supply cache' structure would allow marines to rearm and heal, but not buy weapons.
The 'supply cache' model would be rugged and battle hardened. Rough. Ammunition and medical kits would be visible. It would be hip height. The model would potentially be designed to look good in series, to allow marines to construct 'sandbag' barriers at strong points (Similar to supply depots in SC2).
The addition of the 'supply cache' structure would improve aesthetics by reducing armoury spam around the map.
Thoughts on this idea?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think a "Supply Cache" would be a great way for Marines to resupply (ammo and health). But at such a lost cost (5 Tres), it would improve Marines' resilience against alien harassing tactics too much.
I would love to see a Supply Drop that combines and replaces the Med Pack and Ammo Pack drops, similar to the "supply cache" you described. The differences are the Supply Drop would be usable the instant it is dropped, but has a limited lifespan (of around 1 minute).
Med Packs are frankly, not very effective in combat in its current implementation, as Marines are often killed before they can pick up the healing satchels. Why not let Marines carry their own Med Packs, which they can use at a time of their own choosing? With their costs changed to TRes, Med & Ammo Packs would also scale better than their current implementations.
As for using Supply Caches as sandbags, I think their usefulness will be quite limited, perhaps until Onos start appearing. Aliens in NS2 can easily crawl, fly, teleport, or jump over low obstacles. Although "sandbags" structures would be an interesting new feature that provide cover against ranged attacks, in my opinion, they would often end up providing better cover for Kharaas, rather than Marines.
<!--coloro:#00A040--><span style="color:#00A040"><!--/coloro--><b>(Edited: I just remembered an idea I had earlier about improving Med Packs)</b>
Actually, I think the Marine Commander should retain his ability to drop med packs, in similar fashion to weapons.
Med packs could be made available to ground troops for purchase (at the Armory), as well as drop-able by commanders, but would be quite expensive (costing ~5 PRes each). The purpose of this is so Marines can look after themselves, and others better, rather than relying the Commander to babysit them.
With AOE healing available in the form of Armory and Supply Cache, and personal Med Packs, the unnatural phenomenon known as "Med Pack shower" will vanish almost entirely.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
You are right about the cost being quite low twilightblue, although I anticipate that low cost could be offest by low hitpoints. Perhaps there is room to bump the Armoury to 15, and have a supply cache cost 8-10?
I stand by the 'sandbag' tactic though. I know that if there are skulks coming at me and my buddies down a hallway, I'd rather be shooting at them from behind low cover than no cover at all. If there is low cover, they have to get over it, which puts them at hip height, level with your rifle. Could make for some epic 'hold the line!' against alien attack moments. In any case, the 'sandbag' use is a minor part of the proposal.
Personally, I think your idea about replacing health and ammo packs has legs. I don't think it would hold water with alot of the community though. Medpacks and ammopacks are an ingrained part of NS...
What I do like is the idea of the supply cache being dropped like a med/ammo-pack or catalyst.
It would look like you described it, but only work for 1 minute before expiring.
It would cost alot more (p)res then a medpack or ammopack, but with it you can reinforce an entire squad with 1 click.
I keep on getting stuck commandering in lots of games lately, i've found one of the big hassles with expanding to a new location is due to the res cost.
The armory is definitely a big cost (10 res is a lot when you have upgrades and constantly end up losing RT's)
Would definitely be beneficial in making more agressive marines and encouraging more grouping.
Honestly I don't think you need a cheaper armory, armories already are cheap, they're far more cost effective than a single sentry gun if you don't have one in an area, and for mobile resupplying you have ammo and med drops, this kinda seems like an unneccesary shade of grey between medpacks/ammo packs and armories. Medpacks and ammo packs are fiddly to use, but that's because they need addressing in general, adding more stuff when the existing stuff needs fixing doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Sadly, like my weapons crate idea against weapons raining on the floor, people don't care about aesthetics.
don't really see a reason to make a new structure that does basically the same
I know you guys aren't game producers, but try to remember that this is an indy game, ok?
I know you guys aren't game producers, but try to remember that this is an indy game, ok?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your thought is loudable but every feature needs to be discussed widely and even if an other is sacrified for it in the end it could be of more worth.
I like the Idea as such, though as soon as phasegates are in the game you don't have much a problem to get back to the base to recharge.
And I do think if something like is going in it needs to be transportable.
In my opinion the MAC has no big advantage at all in the moment, so maybe you could upgrade him to this kind of "Recharge machine" and send him on way with a squad of marines. This would also take the burden of spamming med and ammopacks of the Com while he has to move the ARC's etc.
It is my experience that marine play often involves the construction of a primary base, from which squads move out to attack hives, take territory, kill harvesters. Often, marines will establish strong points in territory they hold, to facilitate holding that territory and pushing for more territory. These strong points are usually composed of:
1. Phase Gate | To allow squads to move quickly between primary base and strong points
2. Armoury | To allow squads to rearm and heal
3. Sentry Guns | To delay alien attacks on the strong point
4. Power Pack | To power the strong point (optional depending on power situation)
It is my opinion that the armoury is a 'primary base' building. It has a delicate appearance, and allows marines to buy weapons as well as re-arm/heal.
The addition of a 'supply cache' structure would enhance the strong point experience. Costing around half that of an armoury, and having half the hitpoints, a 'supply cache' structure would allow marines to rearm and heal, but not buy weapons.
The 'supply cache' model would be rugged and battle hardened. Rough. Ammunition and medical kits would be visible. It would be hip height. The model would potentially be designed to look good in series, to allow marines to construct 'sandbag' barriers at strong points (Similar to supply depots in SC2).
The addition of the 'supply cache' structure would improve aesthetics by reducing armoury spam around the map.
Thoughts on this idea?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is actually a great idea, it gives a bit of a buff to marines overall, and is balanced nicely with having half armor.
-> My own take on the idea, lets reduce armory cost to 15 (also reduce armor to 75%), but require it to be an advanced armory to buy weapons (which gets a 50% armor bonus).
Could make it an upgrade or a 2nd unit built from Robotics factory. It could be called a MSC Mobile Supply Cache.
Also brainstorming the barrier idea, I think this is another great idea. A barrier with 1 mounted Heavy sentry ( Artwork Homage to the NS1 Siege Cannon ) Must be manned ( Press E/Use key to enter). 180 degree firing arc best versus Onos and fades. late game it could have a electrofiable upgrade like an electric fence.
Obviously Marines already have their personal flashlights but these spotlights could be useful if positioned to constantly highlight danger areas like high up vents or known hiding places.
<img src="http://betterbuynow.com/images/HL103F.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
No thank you, if an area of the map is intentionally dark, then I don't want the commander to drop 50 spotlights in the area and ruin the atmosphere. Not to mention the exhilaration you can get from wandering around in the pitch blackness with just your spotlight to provide vision.
Anyway, this isn't even remotely relevant to the conversation. Go away.