Why Your Team Lost
Loiosh
Join Date: 2011-08-02 Member: 113640Members
Join Date: 2011-08-02 Member: 113640Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How to be a better enemy</div>I posted this in the Why Marines Lose thread, but I thought it would do better to be a suggestion topic. This short guide does not address existing balance issues as of Patch 183.
<b><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->How to be a Badass Marine<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
<ol type='1'><li><b>Take Advantage of Individual Power</b>: It is important to make use of Marine relative power and self-sufficiency in the early game. Marines are deadly at the start against Skulks in groups of 2-3. Make use of that power to take over one of the early nodes (either FC or Vent). Then quickly setup a forward position on the next command point on <i>one</i> side. (Vent->Surface Access, Flight Control -> Heli). Too often Marines get greedy and instead of progressing along one side, try to take both sides and move into both areas, only to be pushed back as the alien team works backwards to cut off the early nodes. Having Heli does little good if Marines do not have the resources for a Phase Gate (lost Flight Control) and cannot move between the two locations.</li><li> <b>Fireteam Harassment</b>: Use fireteams to harass at different weak points. Marines do not need every team member to stack up in the Vent->Surface Access corridor and bombard the defenses. Keep a roving 2+ fireteam tasked with harassing the Alien supply lines in the early/mid-game. Move between the various locations (Crevice, Crossroads, Reactor) and draw defenders away from where the Marine primary push is. In the late game; locate defensible positions , build a power node, Phase gate, and forward Armory and setup a new front for their team. Skilled Fireteams are excellent ways to establish small bases and harass the Alien hoard.</li><li> <b>Utilize Phase Gates</b>: Make sure to build a phase gate for any established position. In the mid/late game, individual Marines are vastly under powered, to balance that, be mobile across the entire map. Multiple Marines (especially with flamethrowers) beat Aliens, always. Remember that only skulks can attack while on fire. Fades, Lerks and Gorges are harmless when lit. Any time an area is established, a Phase Gate should be there to facilitate quick movement across the map. The Marine Commander should be directing defense and offense and shifting the Phase Gate accesses to assist.</li><li> <b>Turrets are Not Defense</b>: Turrets do not protect a base. Turrets allow the Marines time to respond to an attack. That is all they do, delay. Make sure Turrets cover the entrances and give cover over the existing base so that the Marine Commander knows where Aliens are attacking. This follows with:</li><li> <b>Listen to the Marine Commander</b>: The Commander drives planning and defense for the Marine team. Marine Commanders should call out attacks and direct Marines to defend. Marine team members need to follow direction and help with defense and offense. It is critical to work together, Commander and Marine team, to establish positions, defend, and attack.</li></ol>
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>How to be a Sneaky Alien</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<ol type='1'><li><b>The Power of Movement</b>: Skulks move incredibly fast and traverse any world geometry. Utilize this mobility in the early game to strike down every undefended Power Node, hunt down individual marines, and harass in the mid/late game. Nothing is more frustrating for the Marine team than losing the Flight Control node while making a push from Heli. Use ceilings and tag (Parasite) Marines and Marine Equipment so that fellow Aliens are aware of player and object locations. In the Mid and Late game, probe for weaknesses in Marine defenses. Focus especially upon Phase Gates and denying access to important troop routes. A single skilled Skulk can close off an entire area until the Marines bring a friend. Find and exploit any point of attack to access a defended base.
</li><li><b>Gorges, a Hive's Best Friend</b>: Every new Hive should be defended by a Gorge. Gorges provide the only non-Commander static defenses for Natural Selection and healing for Alien units. Whenever a Hive is being established, there should always be a Gorge there to defend and heal fellow Defenders. Hydras work like Turrets to aid the Alien Commander in delaying attacks to allow the Aliens to defend. In addition, Hydras establish territory control. This follows with:
</li><li><b>Gorges, a Marine's Worst Nightmare</b>: (As the game stands) Once bilebomb is researched, the Alien end-game is done, and it is time to attack. Skulks, Fades and Lerks do not win games against intelligent Marines, Gorges do. Gorges provide the power house that clears Marine turrets and buildings and take forward positions (with Hydras).
</li><li><b>Fades, Everybody Loves an Escort Mission</b>: Fades are great at Marine killing, but terrible for everything else. Most end games consist of Fades flicking around attacking vainly at individual Marines. This is because Fades do not win matches. Gorges do. Fades exist to escort Gorges and distract and weaken Marine defenders. Nothing is more distracting than a Fade flicking in the middle of a base. This allows the real work to be done; bilebombing Marine buildings.
</li><li><b>Lerks, What are They Good For? (Absolutely Nothing!)</b>: Lerks provide AoE (Area of Effect) area denial. When Marines with Flamethrowers and Grenade launchers are chewing up defenses, Gorges and Fades, it is up to the Lerks to save the day. Not only can Lerks take out the most powerful Marines with long distance snipes (Yes, that's what the right mouse button is for), but they provide the best method of scattering groups of Marines: Spores. Use Spores to split up larger groups of Marines and chase them back to heal. Teach the Marines to fear the squishy sound and pull back whenever they see a Spore Cloud. This allows Gorges and Fades to move forward.</li></ol>
Hopefully this short guide will help your team to try better tactics. Remember: Deny movement, attack supply routes, push with the proper forces, and listen to your Commanders!
<b><!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->How to be a Badass Marine<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>
<ol type='1'><li><b>Take Advantage of Individual Power</b>: It is important to make use of Marine relative power and self-sufficiency in the early game. Marines are deadly at the start against Skulks in groups of 2-3. Make use of that power to take over one of the early nodes (either FC or Vent). Then quickly setup a forward position on the next command point on <i>one</i> side. (Vent->Surface Access, Flight Control -> Heli). Too often Marines get greedy and instead of progressing along one side, try to take both sides and move into both areas, only to be pushed back as the alien team works backwards to cut off the early nodes. Having Heli does little good if Marines do not have the resources for a Phase Gate (lost Flight Control) and cannot move between the two locations.</li><li> <b>Fireteam Harassment</b>: Use fireteams to harass at different weak points. Marines do not need every team member to stack up in the Vent->Surface Access corridor and bombard the defenses. Keep a roving 2+ fireteam tasked with harassing the Alien supply lines in the early/mid-game. Move between the various locations (Crevice, Crossroads, Reactor) and draw defenders away from where the Marine primary push is. In the late game; locate defensible positions , build a power node, Phase gate, and forward Armory and setup a new front for their team. Skilled Fireteams are excellent ways to establish small bases and harass the Alien hoard.</li><li> <b>Utilize Phase Gates</b>: Make sure to build a phase gate for any established position. In the mid/late game, individual Marines are vastly under powered, to balance that, be mobile across the entire map. Multiple Marines (especially with flamethrowers) beat Aliens, always. Remember that only skulks can attack while on fire. Fades, Lerks and Gorges are harmless when lit. Any time an area is established, a Phase Gate should be there to facilitate quick movement across the map. The Marine Commander should be directing defense and offense and shifting the Phase Gate accesses to assist.</li><li> <b>Turrets are Not Defense</b>: Turrets do not protect a base. Turrets allow the Marines time to respond to an attack. That is all they do, delay. Make sure Turrets cover the entrances and give cover over the existing base so that the Marine Commander knows where Aliens are attacking. This follows with:</li><li> <b>Listen to the Marine Commander</b>: The Commander drives planning and defense for the Marine team. Marine Commanders should call out attacks and direct Marines to defend. Marine team members need to follow direction and help with defense and offense. It is critical to work together, Commander and Marine team, to establish positions, defend, and attack.</li></ol>
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>How to be a Sneaky Alien</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<ol type='1'><li><b>The Power of Movement</b>: Skulks move incredibly fast and traverse any world geometry. Utilize this mobility in the early game to strike down every undefended Power Node, hunt down individual marines, and harass in the mid/late game. Nothing is more frustrating for the Marine team than losing the Flight Control node while making a push from Heli. Use ceilings and tag (Parasite) Marines and Marine Equipment so that fellow Aliens are aware of player and object locations. In the Mid and Late game, probe for weaknesses in Marine defenses. Focus especially upon Phase Gates and denying access to important troop routes. A single skilled Skulk can close off an entire area until the Marines bring a friend. Find and exploit any point of attack to access a defended base.
</li><li><b>Gorges, a Hive's Best Friend</b>: Every new Hive should be defended by a Gorge. Gorges provide the only non-Commander static defenses for Natural Selection and healing for Alien units. Whenever a Hive is being established, there should always be a Gorge there to defend and heal fellow Defenders. Hydras work like Turrets to aid the Alien Commander in delaying attacks to allow the Aliens to defend. In addition, Hydras establish territory control. This follows with:
</li><li><b>Gorges, a Marine's Worst Nightmare</b>: (As the game stands) Once bilebomb is researched, the Alien end-game is done, and it is time to attack. Skulks, Fades and Lerks do not win games against intelligent Marines, Gorges do. Gorges provide the power house that clears Marine turrets and buildings and take forward positions (with Hydras).
</li><li><b>Fades, Everybody Loves an Escort Mission</b>: Fades are great at Marine killing, but terrible for everything else. Most end games consist of Fades flicking around attacking vainly at individual Marines. This is because Fades do not win matches. Gorges do. Fades exist to escort Gorges and distract and weaken Marine defenders. Nothing is more distracting than a Fade flicking in the middle of a base. This allows the real work to be done; bilebombing Marine buildings.
</li><li><b>Lerks, What are They Good For? (Absolutely Nothing!)</b>: Lerks provide AoE (Area of Effect) area denial. When Marines with Flamethrowers and Grenade launchers are chewing up defenses, Gorges and Fades, it is up to the Lerks to save the day. Not only can Lerks take out the most powerful Marines with long distance snipes (Yes, that's what the right mouse button is for), but they provide the best method of scattering groups of Marines: Spores. Use Spores to split up larger groups of Marines and chase them back to heal. Teach the Marines to fear the squishy sound and pull back whenever they see a Spore Cloud. This allows Gorges and Fades to move forward.</li></ol>
Hopefully this short guide will help your team to try better tactics. Remember: Deny movement, attack supply routes, push with the proper forces, and listen to your Commanders!
Comments
Even then, I get Marines players running off left right and centre all alone - it is an area that needs a real hard look from UWE, who shouldn't be afraid to use UI cues (visual/audio) to better communicate with and between players.
That doesn't mean stick in a shed load of tool tips btw.
If a Marine team moved in groups and held Resource locations while pushing the key Hive drops, Aliens really can't win unless they have some extremely skilled players.
I hate playing against you for exactly that reason. You + the ana crew are deadly and so good about harassment and building attack points.
I think umbra actually was better as a Lerk attack - but imagine if Aliens started making funny / aggressive / comforted noises if walking around in it, or shimmering or something.
This type of thing is missing.
<3
If a Marine team moved in groups and held Resource locations while pushing the key Hive drops, Aliens really can't win unless they have some extremely skilled players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally agree, I might be in the minority here, but I think once a certain level of skill is maintained by the marines, both in FPS ability, and tactics (playing smart and listening to the commander), aliens will lose.
My basic strat is get fc and vent, harass crevisse/reactor, keep scouting 2nd hive locations with rines/obs. Take it out before it goes up.
I think there's kind of interesting thing here. I think it's highly beneficial for the melee vs ranged gameplay that marines have to be somewhat decisive and aggressive for the early game at least. Then again demanding an active role is quite a lot to ask considering the low learning curve requirements of modern games. I think it's one of the equations NS2 has to solve somehow.
lol, thanks for the ego boost. Jk :) You just need to know the priorities for what's going on in the moment. RT/securing an area are pretty big, you need to hold back aliens so you can get your upgrades up before they get their second hive. Pressure, but pressure cautiously. As aliens, you need to make sure you get the drop on the marines and take out their nodes/RTs right away, make it so that their time is spent repairing nodes and building their RTs. The more time you can keep them away from your second hive, the better.
Edit: It's always good to have a guy or two who stray from what the commander says, especially if they are putting on nice pressure at their main hive. Make the aliens confused as to what they should go to protect, most of the time i find myself in crevice just yawning away, knifing an RT, because all the aliens are worrying over Surface Access. Then i just go into the hive, kill some eggs, maybe kill an unsuspecting lerk, or jsut run straight through the hive and hit Surface Access from the back, pinching the aliens and taking them down. :)
That is quite fine and an honor. Thank you!
I constantly tap my map key to keep it flickering on my screen, and I'm always the first person to say "They're attacking here" "I saw a drifter going there!" "Marine train running through X hallway" because I'm watching the map as much as what's in front of me.
If a Alien burns it can still attack as far as it has energy left. A Fade burning may get 3 hits out.
Flames just stop the regeneration of energy but do not "burn" the energy itself!
Not yet. It could be a suggestion to allow Marines to form squads and have a squad-talk key.
I would like this, or a local mic, which transmits whatever you're saying to people within a certain area.
Why Your Team Lost, you ask? <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17105373/Natural%20Selection/alien_needbetter.wav" target="_blank">We need better players</a>!
The usual blob of marine players moving down a corridor is an easy pray for any attack, as the marines at the back can't see the attacking aliens for all the marine butts covering them.
If marines instead keeps to the side of the corridor, interleaving left and right, any attacking alien can be shot by most or maybe all of the marines. That makes the difference between a marine down vs a few moments of tender welding/medpack before moving on to the target.
Oh .. and if you are the target, move FORWARD, towards the enemy. Not only will you live longer, you leave the attacker in the middle of a marine circle of death.
The usual blob of marine players moving down a corridor is an easy pray for any attack, as the marines at the back can't see the attacking aliens for all the marine butts covering them.
If marines instead keeps to the side of the corridor, interleaving left and right, any attacking alien can be shot by most or maybe all of the marines. That makes the difference between a marine down vs a few moments of tender welding/medpack before moving on to the target.
Oh .. and if you are the target, move FORWARD, towards the enemy. Not only will you live longer, you leave the attacker in the middle of a marine circle of death.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That can be fixed with Friendly fire on. ever played NS2 on the FF ON server?
I kinda like it
This is deadly for Skulks pre Hive 2, especially when they get the aim tracking fix in for 184.
After Hive 2, they should be using Leap to throw off aim.