pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Wow, lighting as improved a lot, imho. You seem to do better with colors and overall style.
Shots 3-5 look great, although I get the overall impression that you go a tad too far with hiding ugly geometry or boring high-scaled texture faces :p I also think in some locations you could do with a few more true spotlights which cast a long, interesting shadow on the scene through some grates, hanging cables or whatever, because you have high ceilings and it would add to the dark mood without lighting it up too much. I only see something like that in the first shots and furher below on the checker placeholder texture.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1861886:date=Jul 20 2011, 08:09 AM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Jul 20 2011, 08:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861886"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, lighting as improved a lot, imho. You seem to do better with colors and overall style.
Shots 3-5 look great, although I get the overall impression that you go a tad too far with hiding ugly geometry or boring high-scaled texture faces :p I also think in some locations you could do with a few more true spotlights which cast a long, interesting shadow on the scene through some grates, hanging cables or whatever, because you have high ceilings and it would add to the dark mood without lighting it up too much. I only see something like that in the first shots and furher below on the checker placeholder texture.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure I don't have to tell you how invaluable all your continual critiques have been, and thank you for coming through once again. No purples anymore, you may have noticed...... Haha. As for 3-5, I think you're totally correct. They are of course in need of some attention, and there is some obvious hiding that must be fixed. Great point about the shadows, as well, I need to sit back and use my brain and make better use of them.
Just from the one or two shots I can make out, it looks like you've put a lot of thought and labor into this map, but unfortunately I can't see most of it. The lighting is improved over the first iteration, but the majority of these shots are still so dark I can barely tell what I'm looking at.
I'm all for dark contrasts and atmosphere, but your map can't shine if no light gets to it; literally and metaphorically!
Your lighting is getting better and better! I'm getting towards the limit of my critique-able knowledge, but I can't wait to get inside this map and check it out.
<!--quoteo(post=1861003:date=Jul 16 2011, 04:02 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jul 16 2011, 04:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please keep it dark like this, it looks really natural and believable. I'd love to run around this map as a marine with flashlight on, checking all the nooks and crannies for skulks :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This might seem fun, but wouldn't it greatly benefit the alien team? Practically, this map is just un-balanced when it's always so dark.
overall the map looks really nice though! It's just that it needs more lightning when you want it to be a serious map.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
I'll upload shots later today with my updates to the lighting. My philosophy now is this: you should be able to see each and every wall of a room more or less clearly, there should only be darkness in the corners or the ceiling in patches. I do NOT want people to feel like I'm hiding anything, be it ugly geometry or anything else, from them. Whatever darkness I keep must assist the gameplay and feel totally natural consider where you find it. This way, you can walk into a room and say to yourself, I've looked everywhere but THERE
I'd like you to focus on this shot for a moment please, I need your guys' help. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/tCRMH.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
now... my big question is: do you want the area circled in red and with a question mark to be light, or do you want it to stay dark? The area in pink is only dark because it's incomplete. The areas circled in red with a check mark must stay blackened. So, what do you think?
I have a fondness of the way it is, There doesn't seem to much cover for skulk up there so is works well to use darkness as cover at the same time giving a marine the chance to use the flashlight and scan or feel teeth in the back of the neck. Feels ....whats the word.....creepy....no....immersive, that's the word i was looking for.
Also take into consideration the orange casting down would have to be decreased or the area it is coming from needs a corresponding glow. Atmospheric may change that for you and would make it look really cool with some "Steam Rise" upside down to make it fall as if it where a chilled fog coming down.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1862298:date=Jul 21 2011, 11:20 PM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Jul 21 2011, 11:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1862298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have a fondness of the way it is, There doesn't seem to much cover for skulk up there so is works well to use darkness as cover at the same time giving a marine the chance to use the flashlight and scan or feel teeth in the back of the neck. Feels ....whats the word.....creepy....no....immersive, that's the word i was looking for.
Also take into consideration the orange casting down would have to be decreased or the area it is coming from needs a corresponding glow. Atmospheric may change that for you and would make it look really cool with some "Steam Rise" upside down to make it fall as if it where a chilled fog coming down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you and excellent point on both accounts, I knew something looked "off" about that part
As for the whole creepy thing... lets just say, I get scared on my own map whenever I see a harvester die. its really eery and it should be scary as hell when the sounds go in
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1863286:date=Jul 25 2011, 07:28 AM:name=SomeMiceDrinkingTea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SomeMiceDrinkingTea @ Jul 25 2011, 07:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863286"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could you make a quick video walkthrough showing the map's progress please? thanks :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd love to, but it's just not ready for that yet. I will say it looks better in motion, no thanks to .jpeg compression....
I need to complete three more major rooms (hangar, marine spawn, marine 1st tech) and a few minor rooms before a video. That will bring me to greater than 50% completion, a good time to think and reflect before I start alien side.
@Janos: thank you very much, I promise to make every room as clear, easy to discern and properly lit as possible. That takes time, of course
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
here are some more views of this room, which is done except for some small lighting, details and superficial texturing. next come the most epic parts of the map: the hangar and the assembly room, which I have not yet begun. both should bigger than anything you've seen so far.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/zAwvB.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/6sqhj.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> -- this sky is temporary, I plan on a greenish, overcast and smoky one <img src="http://i.imgur.com/T231b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Between the vastness of these rooms and the detailed geometry, I imagine Marines will be hard-pressed to keep an eye on every corner. This is sure to be a frightening map to traverse!
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
Good news guys, I've finalized the layout. Green are resource points, purple are tech, blue are spawn tech/rescource. These routes shown are all marine-ascessible and without consideration (for the sake of convenience) for elevation changes. Vents are unshown because I haven't finalized those, the main routes take priority.
Bad news, everything yet to be completed (three to four rooms) is enormous and very challenging stuff. Not to mention all the little details, interconnecting hallways, etc....... that means the map still has a long way to go.
The purple node to the right of the green node below the uppermost spawn has a northern entrance which is for the most part, irrelevant. It's a longer journey and leads to nowhere except back out into the same room.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1864875:date=Jul 30 2011, 08:02 AM:name=Zuriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zuriki @ Jul 30 2011, 08:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1864875"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The purple node to the right of the green node below the uppermost spawn has a northern entrance which is for the most part, irrelevant. It's a longer journey and leads to nowhere except back out into the same room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but how do you feel about that room only having one entrance? If there were a vent entrance there and only one marine entrance, would that be enough?
That particular corridor should move up a bit IMO, so it connects to the vertical corridor and not to the same room as the lower connection. Just a suggestion
It all depends on dimensions and cover. Since it's a tech point marines can just point some turrets at the vent and storm out of the doorway. You should make the rt outside of it difficult to defend, so they can't keep turtling in there.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1865098:date=Jul 31 2011, 05:22 AM:name=subshadow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (subshadow @ Jul 31 2011, 05:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1865098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It all depends on dimensions and cover. Since it's a tech point marines can just point some turrets at the vent and storm out of the doorway. You should make the rt outside of it difficult to defend, so they can't keep turtling in there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It will be exceptionally difficult for marines to defend, since it is elevated and there is no direct entrance from marine start, they have to go through the center of the map and back track. I'm thinking it will definitely require a phase gate/control of center. But it is elevated from center and over the RT, so some high ground protection there. Should be interesting.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
OK bad news that's really good news: I'm scrapping this map and starting a new one. When I started this map I'd not played a single game of NS2, and I think the design suffered rather horribly because of that. Still, I learned a LOT and that's what's important, the new map should be better in every conceivable way.
Comments
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/uJ5Di.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/RAhj4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/J9Nzv.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Svn4C.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> --------- placeholder sign
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/pSRDU.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/iQ3Le.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Kk1a7.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/6eFbr.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/DryPn.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/A3Kty.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Shots 3-5 look great, although I get the overall impression that you go a tad too far with hiding ugly geometry or boring high-scaled texture faces :p
I also think in some locations you could do with a few more true spotlights which cast a long, interesting shadow on the scene through some grates, hanging cables or whatever, because you have high ceilings and it would add to the dark mood without lighting it up too much.
I only see something like that in the first shots and furher below on the checker placeholder texture.
Shots 3-5 look great, although I get the overall impression that you go a tad too far with hiding ugly geometry or boring high-scaled texture faces :p
I also think in some locations you could do with a few more true spotlights which cast a long, interesting shadow on the scene through some grates, hanging cables or whatever, because you have high ceilings and it would add to the dark mood without lighting it up too much.
I only see something like that in the first shots and furher below on the checker placeholder texture.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sure I don't have to tell you how invaluable all your continual critiques have been, and thank you for coming through once again. No purples anymore, you may have noticed...... Haha. As for 3-5, I think you're totally correct. They are of course in need of some attention, and there is some obvious hiding that must be fixed. Great point about the shadows, as well, I need to sit back and use my brain and make better use of them.
Thanks again
I'm all for dark contrasts and atmosphere, but your map can't shine if no light gets to it; literally and metaphorically!
This might seem fun, but wouldn't it greatly benefit the alien team? Practically, this map is just un-balanced when it's always so dark.
overall the map looks really nice though! It's just that it needs more lightning when you want it to be a serious map.
I'd really like to test it at the current light level and see if it is hard to play as marine.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/G6ALM.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/VfBqQ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/0lyjN.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/IpD79.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/k2W4F.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/tCRMH.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'd like you to focus on this shot for a moment please, I need your guys' help.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/tCRMH.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
now... my big question is: do you want the area circled in red and with a question mark to be light, or do you want it to stay dark? The area in pink is only dark because it's incomplete. The areas circled in red with a check mark must stay blackened. So, what do you think?
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/q01v8.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also take into consideration the orange casting down would have to be decreased or the area it is coming from needs a corresponding glow. Atmospheric may change that for you and would make it look really cool with some "Steam Rise" upside down to make it fall as if it where a chilled fog coming down.
Also take into consideration the orange casting down would have to be decreased or the area it is coming from needs a corresponding glow. Atmospheric may change that for you and would make it look really cool with some "Steam Rise" upside down to make it fall as if it where a chilled fog coming down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you and excellent point on both accounts, I knew something looked "off" about that part
As for the whole creepy thing... lets just say, I get scared on my own map whenever I see a harvester die. its really eery and it should be scary as hell when the sounds go in
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Zyvg5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/HSYB8.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/eA7j7.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Rxfe0.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I'd love to, but it's just not ready for that yet. I will say it looks better in motion, no thanks to .jpeg compression....
I need to complete three more major rooms (hangar, marine spawn, marine 1st tech) and a few minor rooms before a video. That will bring me to greater than 50% completion, a good time to think and reflect before I start alien side.
@Janos: thank you very much, I promise to make every room as clear, easy to discern and properly lit as possible. That takes time, of course
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/zAwvB.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/6sqhj.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> -- this sky is temporary, I plan on a greenish, overcast and smoky one
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/T231b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Between the vastness of these rooms and the detailed geometry, I imagine Marines will be hard-pressed to keep an eye on every corner. This is sure to be a frightening map to traverse!
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/3zXXU.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Bad news, everything yet to be completed (three to four rooms) is enormous and very challenging stuff. Not to mention all the little details, interconnecting hallways, etc....... that means the map still has a long way to go.
but how do you feel about that room only having one entrance? If there were a vent entrance there and only one marine entrance, would that be enough?
It will be exceptionally difficult for marines to defend, since it is elevated and there is no direct entrance from marine start, they have to go through the center of the map and back track. I'm thinking it will definitely require a phase gate/control of center. But it is elevated from center and over the RT, so some high ground protection there. Should be interesting.
<!--quoteo(post=1865101:date=Jul 31 2011, 06:20 AM:name=jergodz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jergodz @ Jul 31 2011, 06:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1865101"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A small map then? might be interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite small, but with large rooms and a lot of vertical elements that inflate the size beyond what you see in 2D