Does anyone NOT think the slow on hit sucks?
TrueVeritas
Join Date: 2006-10-20 Member: 58082Members
Join Date: 2006-10-20 Member: 58082Members
Since Flayra seemed to have ignored this partially (saying it only applies to aliens)...
I'm talking all parties here, marines/aliens.
If you do think it's better for the game, please state:
- If you played NS1, for how long, and how good you were.
- How long you've been playing NS2, and what your skill level is.
I've asked in most servers I've been in and I don't think I've come across a single person that likes this change.
I'm talking all parties here, marines/aliens.
If you do think it's better for the game, please state:
- If you played NS1, for how long, and how good you were.
- How long you've been playing NS2, and what your skill level is.
I've asked in most servers I've been in and I don't think I've come across a single person that likes this change.
Comments
That's not the point.
No but really, I dont think many ppl like this change, and unlike the slow on backwards I dont see what ns1 would have to do with it (cause afaik you didnt slow on hit in ns1).
It's there to add authority to someones opinion, you'd be surprised how many people try to push in their opinions without anything to base it on outside of playing something for less than 10 hours.
And no, nobody seems to like this change.
And no, nobody seems to like this change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't mean anything though. Just because someone played a game doesn't mean that every idea they have is a good one or should be treated as being better just because they played that game.
I never played NS1, but I've played other games on a competitive level. Should I list off all my gaming resume before each post so that you know my opinions are the right ones? (don't answer, rhetorical question)
Back on topic: I've not played enough of 180 to decide yet. I'm not sure skulks needed their movement nerfed in such a way though (but I do think their animations need cleaned up to make it easier to tell what way they are moving etc. I think that would do a lot to improve the combat between skulks and marines).
I like the general idea of the ability to slow one's target on hit. But I do feel that the current implementation needs to be tweaked.
Marines used to be able to run through Kharaa defenses, with the B180 changes, Marines now have to think twice about charging through a jungle of Hydras, and Whips (which have too few HP).
The downside is Kharaas have been hit harder by this change. That is because they need fast movement to avoid getting killed, whereas Marines depend mainly on ranged firepower.
No, I don't want a discussion on why it's good and why it's bad. I want to know if anyone actually likes this change.
I never played NS1, but I've played other games on a competitive level. Should I list off all my gaming resume before each post so that you know my opinions are the right ones? (don't answer, rhetorical question)
Back on topic: I've not played enough of 180 to decide yet. I'm not sure skulks needed their movement nerfed in such a way though (but I do think their animations need cleaned up to make it easier to tell what way they are moving etc. I think that would do a lot to improve the combat between skulks and marines).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually "Doesn't mean anything" implies it wouldn't actually mean ANYTHING, we live in a world without any absolute truths so having some information is good as having every bit of information is impossible to have. If someone with integrity is willing to say that they have had proper experience with the previous installation of the game how does that NOT apply any sort of weight to their opinion?
This is a thread about peoples OPINIONS about the change, not "ideas" about it. Difference is that and idea can be easily formulated based on theory and explained through such, but experience of some kind is required to form an usable opinion. And in the current climate of internet everyone seems to want to have their baseless opinion to be considered as important as everyone else's which makes it completely legitimate to inquire for previous gaming history.
Should I completely ignore a reasonable request of a person who started the thread I wandered into? (This would be a rhetorical question, hope you will not answer to it)
Back to the topic: You know what would've been a proper answer for you? To explain your opinion on the topic of slowdown during combat and per request of the creator of the thread that you voluntarily entered into instead of trying to force your half-formed ideology into it, you should explain that you don't have experience in the particular game but you can present the next best alternative and all of this would be avoided.
Now how about stop cluttering the thread with OT?
<!--quoteo(post=1859879:date=Jul 12 2011, 03:56 AM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jul 12 2011, 03:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859879"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The title of this thread and the tone of the OP started the discussion on the wrong foot, IMO. It's better to start a new thread with a less antagonistic title, at least.
(I guess you intended this to be a "vent your spleen" thread, so be it... I just don't think this will be very productive.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Generally I'd agree with you, but on this topic I haven't been able to find a single person who agrees with the change so it seems pretty valid inquiry rather than a venting thread.
Also since the poster below me mentioned it, I too have stopped playing 180 due to this change.
this change only hurts aliens further more since their movement already is pretty crappy to begin with. And now, they will be slowed when under attack, its like kick to the nuts.
I do believe this one change or one of many what makes this whole build crappy. they seriously need to hotfix this problem, and apply it.
its one of the reasons I stopped playing build 180, and will be waiting till the next. I just cant believe something like this ever thought to be good idea...
i'm sure someone will defend this, like they defended all the other bad ideas UWE ended up changing.
And it works both ways too - bitten marines stick in place, it feels like the skulk is glued to them which is generally nice. Its less random, quake-style super fast combat. And, dont bash me, I would prolly be happy with all the damage doubled - there could be a test build like that. Combat would be sudden, unexpected and deadly, as its supposed to be. With marines flashlighting every dark corner and skulks hiding over every doorway.
Oh. And I played NS1. Since the technology release with this fancy turret demoing things to come :> And also loved NS 1.04 way more then NS1 2.0. Does it mean I'm almost a dev here? ;>
BTW, UWE - do you have this original flash intro to NS website? With the frantic shooting? it would be great as a promo material. Imagine a youtube ad:
Almost a decade ago, we touched perfection... <NS1 flash intro, since its pretty much sound only, flashing NS1 footage on screen>
Now were here to finish the job. <cinematic shot of a shotgun-equipped marine standing in front of a infested room, with hive in it>
If someone finds it, I can try and work on sth like that. Dunno if my rig will be up to the task.
Sorry for the OT. Prolly should put this in the E-team forums.
Cheers
I like the idea of skulk bites slowing down marines, which makes the first bite very important....but maybe as an upgrade. Same with marines...maybe a "concussive rounds" upgrade or pruchase for rifle. But something applied across the board, not so much.
And it works both ways too - bitten marines stick in place, it feels like the skulk is glued to them which is generally nice. Its less random, quake-style super fast combat. And, dont bash me, I would prolly be happy with all the damage doubled - there could be a test build like that. Combat would be sudden, unexpected and deadly, as its supposed to be. --<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd just like you to justify couple of things, "as intended" "as it's supposed to be", by what merit is it that ambush style of play is the only way it's "intended" to be played (without movement impairing effects the mechanics allow for BOTH ambush and fair straight on battle, as opposed to the idea where only ambush style of play is the only valid one. How is it bad for a game to have MORE than LESS depth?) and how is it fair for the melee only aliens to be completely gimped against the all ranged marines? Without the slow mechanic a good marine is able to soften a skulk up before they get to melee range and after that rapid movement is the only thing a skulk has in his arsenal to tip the scales into his favor in a head on battle, but since a good marine was able to take a chip off the skulks health he'll also have an advantage in the battle. With the movement impairing mechanic if the melee only skulk is caught in fire by a half-decent marine he's dead, if a skulk gets into the melee range a single bullet from a decent marine is enough to stop him on his tracks thus turning it into a dps race that has nothing to do with player skill but rather how damaged both parties were, which upgrades do they have, and what weapon is the marine carrying, and how was full was the clip in that gun. At that point the battles turn into RNG based events where only skill is whether alien is able to engage into melee range or not, and nothing else. Splinter Cell games have this style of ambush only combat for one side, and I can't fathom on what grounds that's supposed to be the way to go in an FPS game when even that game has it's FPS side engage in active combat.
In short this removes alien players skill in battle affecting anything else except how adept they are engaging in combat, making the gameplay for aliens very stale and uninteresting. I'd really love to hear what the design team's thinking process was behind this update.
Oh and the reason why majority of marines have trouble hitting skulks during melee engagement is because skulks seem to warp for most players in close range, it's ridiculous to say that because players can't hit during that that changes should be implemented in order to alleviate said issue.
<!--quoteo(post=1859895:date=Jul 12 2011, 04:44 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jul 12 2011, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was added to address jump spam and the "crazy tango chaos of combat". It really hasn't done that. We need to bite the bullet and directly address jump spam.
I like the idea of skulk bites slowing down marines, which makes the first bite very important....but maybe as an upgrade. Same with marines...maybe a "concussive rounds" upgrade or pruchase for rifle. But something applied across the board, not so much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Outside of the warping issue I don't understand the whole "chaotic" thing, there clearly were players prior 180 who were more than capable of taking down skulks in 1v1. I'd also like to point the same thing as I did to the above poster, why is this sort of "ambush" style of gameplay where the one who gets the first hit should get a near irrecoverable advantage better, rather than giving players with skill able to turn the tables assuming that the one who got the first strike was less skillful in that situation. The latter option has more gameplay depth, and in videogames it's pretty universally agreed that depth is good. Sure this type of depth actually requires some skill to execute, but why is that a bad thing in a competitive game?
And it works both ways too - bitten marines stick in place, it feels like the skulk is glued to them which is generally nice. Its less random, quake-style super fast combat. And, dont bash me, I would prolly be happy with all the damage doubled - there could be a test build like that. Combat would be sudden, unexpected and deadly, as its supposed to be. With [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I understand the intent of the slow on hit feature and I understand what you're saying as well, but this is a very poor attempt at achieving that goal.
Every alien class suffers from this whereas marines see very little draws backs mainly because they didn't rely on speed in the first place. They can still hop around and shoot at their feet which is all they ever did.
Turrets also become much more effective against anything other than a fade, though the fades effectiveness against buildings is pretty bad in 180 but thats another story.
Gorges are even easier targets than before, even if behind a wall of hydras. Without a gorge behind hydras they become easy targets. Get-aways are nearly impossible when under fire.
Skulks are even less powerful because their circle strafing abilities are hampered. I don't think skulks should be forced to sneak attack at all times. Any good skulk knows to try a sneak attack when they can but its not always an option. Forcing sneak attacking to be the main way of getting kills is a nerf that is uncompensated for.
Fades and lerks suffer a bit but usually fades blink to move. Still it affects circle strafing and attacking in general.
I really don't support slow at all. I mean there might be some way to amend it, but currently its just a huge nerf to aliens. It takes away skill for marines and aliens; marines have it easier aiming and aliens have to rely on being sneaky instead of movement skill and accuracy. The main point above all is that combat is less enjoyable overall because of it.
Skulks on the other hand its completely and utterly silly.
The entire skulk move system is so under-developed it hardly matters. Which is fine, UW have signaled they're going to overhaul it. Skulk 2.0 will be when I start playing more regularly. But, if you're going to get angsty about anything, get angsty about that.
It took 100 - 500 hours to get your head around the NS1 skulk movement. Probably the most advanced movement system, with the highest skill ceiling, of any FPS.
Skulks on the other hand its completely and utterly silly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, completely silly that Skulks can almost never retreat because they get hit by magic slowing bullets.
amen brother! +1
I hate slow effect on both sides, I hate slow speed of the game, I hate the turrets but what I hate most is the unitcliffing no solid units wtf. Its just so sad you need to go inside your marine to actually land a bite. Skill based movement system is required for both sides, more alien than marine though.
I have played from 1.04 the very end and got recruited to competitive right away, I still sometimes enjoy the skulk bunnyhopping in NS1 public / gathers but I'm no longer active. I have played NS2 almost everyday since 179, over 100 hours and just about everything in these forums are bullgoo.
I hate slow effect on both sides, I hate slow speed of the game, I hate the turrets but what I hate most is the unitcliffing no solid units wtf. Its just so sad you need to go inside your marine to actually land a bite. Skill based movement system is required for both sides, more alien than marine though.
I have played from 1.04 the very end and got recruited to competitive right away, I still sometimes enjoy the skulk bunnyhopping in NS1 public / gathers but I'm no longer active. I have played NS2 almost everyday since 179, over 100 hours and just about everything in these forums are bullgoo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen. I think by NS2 2.0 maybe we'll see a return to decent gameplay. Until then... stationary defenses and "realism" seem to be the only thing on the developer's minds.
TBH, I didn't notice it much as marine. If it's to stop jump spam I think they should just make it like NS1 where if you jump multiple times you lose speed.
I agree with TrC about the slow speed of the game. Just when running along as a skulk it feels really slow. A lot of the movement just feels very clunky and it makes it frustrating to play. It would be so much better if everything was speeded up and made more fluid. Just interacting with the game feels like a chore right now.
I play almost exclusively the skulk, at first I got mad because the marines simply tore me apart. but now I have adapted and are having a good time. If I have the initiative I can more often than not take out at least 2 of the marines in a group of 3, and if taken by surprise, at least one of them is going down with me.
Unless they have a good shotgun aim.
Overall I like 180 more, marine jump spam is far less effective. but not useless, when I play as shotgun marine (what else) it's still possible to jump and avoid leaps and kill skulks one by one.
However, even if I enjoy the skulk (the only enjoyable alien class besides gorge) and its ambushing the slow down should be toned down (and removed on lerk), because once ppl get it in their heads to actually look around, you're dead.
and as a final note for ppl having trouble getting away, use leap.
I'm talking all parties here, marines/aliens.
If you do think it's better for the game, please state:
- If you played NS1, for how long, and how good you were.
- How long you've been playing NS2, and what your skill level is.
I've asked in most servers I've been in and I don't think I've come across a single person that likes this change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Watch out forum trolls will attack you...serious.
Anyway i think it should only be on marine side, but only for a sec.
Alien slow down on hit is such stupid.
- Played NS1 a half year
- since its out
So watch out for users like Techercizer.
Its a beta, we just should wait what UWE did, i hope they hear the users here.
The balancing of the game isn't realy easy.
There is also a diffrent between public gaming and clan gaming or private gaming like their tests.
They know each other and have voice, on public its totaly diffrent.
It has made Tier 1 rifle marines much more deadly now. If they get 4 hits on you you basically become immobilised and you are dead.
Slow on hit has also made the shotgun much more Over Powered. It slows on hit if 2 pellets hit you and that is very likely. Other than the fact that for some reason they buffed the shotgun even though everyone was complaining for ages that is was OP.
If you are going to keep slow on hit you might as well allow the skulk to have xenocide considering the fact that they will probably die before they reach the marines and if they get to the marines then they have no chance of escaping unless they kill all of the Marines.
Not if you leap
<!--quoteo(post=1859946:date=Jul 12 2011, 07:54 AM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ Jul 12 2011, 07:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1859946"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Other than the fact that for some reason they buffed the shotgun even though everyone was complaining for ages that is was OP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
in 179 it 1 shotted skulks at close range, so the damage buff isn't that great.
now you don't do any damage at mid-long ranges so you can't 1 shot snipe with it any more, so its a nerf.
in 179 it 1 shotted skulks at close range, so the damage buff isn't that great.
now you don't do any damage at mid-long ranges so you can't 1 shot snipe with it any more, so its a nerf.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Firstly, getting shot in the air while leaping still slows you down. That is why when you start flying (As Lerk) you get slowed down even though you are flying.
Secondly, the shotgun has become more powerful. Okay, it isn't great at long range any more but it doesn't actually need range mostly because the only long ranged alien isn't long ranged any more. So no need for the range on the shotgun because everything will be close to you.
Secondly, the shotgun has become more powerful. Okay, it isn't great at long range any more but it doesn't actually need range mostly because the only long ranged alien isn't long ranged any more. So no need for the range on the shotgun because everything will be close to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yea, leaping head on towards a lmg marine is deadly, but you can use the leap to get away instead and attack later when he's occupied.
and the range makes the shotgun not able to kill anything in LoS whatever range they're at, and it's slightly buffed vs fades (the rest of the crowd was 1 shot most of the time pre 180 as well)
I agree that the slowdown for skulks should be reduced somehow, but it's not that bad, and with it the lmg finally has a place end game.