The Phase Gate Rush Strategy
domesticxdispute
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2300Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2300Members
<div class="IPBDescription">getting a little annoying?</div> Ok, I'm sure all of you that have played on a decent server have witnessed a phase gate rush. Commander builds ips, armory, observatory, and a phase gate. 1 Person stays in base, the other marines go to the aliens' hive and proceed to build a phase gate. From here, the marines either charge and and shoot the hive to death, or siege it. I'm just wondering about people's opinions on this. When it happens to me (on either side) it just makes for an extremely boring game. (since they only last around 5 minutes)
Comments
NS is just a real-time strategy game with an FPS "look" to most of the players. [edit] (MTF5k has disagreed below that it's vice versa, but either way the result is the same)[/edit] And so, just like in any other RTS like Warcraft, Starcraft, C&C, etc., it's possible to expand too quickly for your own good--and you often will suffer dire consequences as a result. In this case, the expansion worked. Call it an imbalance of skilled players on each team, or call it imbalance of the game itself, but it was a valid tactic for an RTS game with a palpable risk involved.
err its the other way round, an FPS with a real time strategy "look" <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
If it doesn't work, the marines have gotten into a huge deficit in terms of both time and resources, and should be fairly easily beaten down by the aliens.
Many commanders are learning that motion tracking is hands-down the best marine upgrade, and therefore are getting the observatory first. Just like in any RTS, your build order is based off of what type of unit or tactic you want to employ, and you use the additional benefits of those buildings as well. In this case, you want an observatory for motion tracking, so why not use phase gates and distress beacons to their full extent while you're at it?
EDIT:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->err its the other way round, an FPS with a real time strategy "look" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, that's just blatantly wrong.
RTSs have resources, technology, tech trees, etc. FPS games don't.
NS is clearly an RTS with an FPS front-end.
Show me the part where I said it wasn't a part of the game. "If they were good they could stop it" isn't a valid point either. What if they were playing against "good" marines?
Maybe I should have been more general... Does anyone get any real joy out of rushing and winning the game in 5 minutes?
"There's other guns than the LMG and Shotgun? Crazy talk."
I'm not saying that this is EASY; but since 1.01, aliens have been ramboing like crazy, and it has been the marines that have had to work together, as contrary to 1.0, when aliens had to work together, and marines could just rambo.
If you don't work as a team, you can expect to lose repeatedly; regardless of which race you are.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference would be: you have no hives and you're all dead. The marines have no spawns but they win.
The marines have sufficient firepower and respawn rate to easily hold off a skulk rush if they're not stupid.
The respawn rate of skulks makes it much harder for the aliens to retake an occupied initial hive if they get down to a few aliens - the marines can just spawn camp and pick off skulks from a safe distance. The aliens' only options are to run off and regroup at another hive or attempt to get the marine's base (which probably won't work, but will force the marines to back off). But it's no longer an option to abandon the initial hive because of instant death <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
But on the other hand, one could argue that the aliens bring it on themselves by still rushing and failing to guard the starting hive successfully (very common).
3 Off Chambers behind a corner filled with hidden webs. As the marines gets struk, off chambers shoots them. Obviosly, the gorge have to keep webs up...
I've seen few marines running around with Welder
The fact is that there is no anti-marine rush strat, you just have to be better than them skill wise.
If two teams have exactly the same skill marines win easily using this. The fact is marines get ranged weapons, which is a huge advantage in the easly game against only skulks if the marines want to hold a place down (like a hive room) cus the llamas just sit in the corner, and there are places in every hive you can do this.
Phase gate rushing in my opinion sucks, a marine rush is much better than a skulk rush, alien rushes are very easily held off if the marines have more than 4 braincells between them.
But if it works it doesn't seem to stop people doing it does it even if it makes for the most boring llama games ever.
Seems people always seem to be coming up with the next lame **obscenity** marines strat to kill aliens in 5 seconds, rather than just becoming good comms or marines.
Long live normal play I say, not the next uber strat blbablah
Happy hunting, Mark
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I imagine the same thing would've happened in an attempt to rush a hive. Thankfully we didn't attempt THAT.
So I think it balances out. The few times I've been in a marine rush to the hive, they've always worked. I see skulk rushes a LOT more often, and only a few of those ever work. I like the point about the 'hive countdown', though.. I think that should be taken out. Games move too quickly as it is now, and the countdown only encourages an alien rush.
Easily.
This meant that or ips didn't go down straight away (and then the comm only put down 1). A heavy skulk rush killed most of our team, several waves of skulk rushes at 3-4 second intervals followed and each time one skulk entered half a second behind the others an went for the cc. The skulks took out the cc but we had a full compliment of marines with full clips of ammo so we left them too it and before the final wave we ran out the other door and rushed their hive. We took it out then just had to keep 1 marine alive until all the aliens died.
While it was a nice surprise to be able to pull off a win I think it was unfair that the aliens automatically die when the hive goes.
The tactic is sound but the result is unfair, giving aliens the ability to rebuild the hive with enough rp's would also be unfair unless the marines are able to re-create the cc ?
So what is the answer, to discourage rushing or make it less devistating? I don't want to stop rushing as I feel it's a valid tactic that should work - occasionally.
<b>Perhaps if marines take damage after the cc is destroyed?</b>
No, this would just be unfair on both sides.
<b>To get rid of alien auto-kill?</b>
This would make marine rushes less effective, and therefore less apealing to the comm, but skulk rushes would be just as effective with less to loose in leaving a hive ungaurded.. not fair.
<b>To loose alien auto-kill and deny rebuild of primary hive?</b>
might work, would limit aliens to two hives if their first gets destroyed giving them a chance but penelising them - but what about the poor marines that loose their cc? (tough titties?) Also how easy would it be to put in the game? Not very i'm guessing.
<b>Get rid of alien auto-kill and allow marines to rebuild the cc?</b>
Perhaps if the cc could not be anihilated but instead dropped to -2000hp and required heavy welding to fix, until fixed it could not be used. Aliens could rebuild their first hive in about the same time and marine ips would not work without a working cc. This could mean that welding the cc would take about as long as it takes for a gorge to save 80rp. Or perhaps a marine team with 200rp and no cc will be given a cc at a random point on the map and a waypoint to it?
As you can see I am very much for the idea of getting rid of auto-kill<b> but what about the aliens hiding in the vents?</b>
Quite frankly any marine team with a single half competent member will be able to find and destroy the alien using motion tracking, scanner sweeps, or turret farms. Jet packs can get the marines into vents and if it's really dragging on the aliens can all leave to the readyroom forcing a game end.
These are just my thought and ideas.... sorry for the long post.