I doubt the standard will move to 4. Right now it may seem like 5 is too much and in favor of aliens, but we need to wait for Marine Exo and JP, and for alien's needing 3 hives for Onos, 3rd chamber and other high tier stuff. Right now aliens only need 2 hives to get Fade, which noticeably swings the favor to aliens...which is why 4 might make sense right now. However, if there were only 4 once the game was feature complete, marines would only need to capture and turtle one other base to deny aliens full tech. Then marines can simply defend, tech up, and then use that forward base as launching point for a siege. 5 tech points makes for an exponentially more dynamic game.
I'd continue making 5, and imo thats where the devs are going with the game. I just don't see them switching to 4.
Now if you want to make 6, this does start favoring aliens (as 4 favors marine). You would need to add marine friendly features to the map, such as more doors, tech points closer to marines, less tech rooms with resource nodes, rooms with no tech point but multiple res nodes (since it gives marines a worthwhile expansion), less (or zero) rooms with broken power nodes (such as crevice and crossroads in summit).
<!--quoteo(post=1856197:date=Jun 24 2011, 10:14 PM:name=_Thresh_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Thresh_ @ Jun 24 2011, 10:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1856197"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't think it takes some structure out of the early game?
Use to be good in NS1 rushing and holding the first hive then contesting the second.
Early game feels like a floaty resource battle now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since the game is feature incomplete, its hard to say what the real cause is of any problem afflicting NS2 balance right now. Currently, most games are decided at the alien 2nd hive. Early game consists of marines on mad dashes making sure aliens don't get that second hive...and having to run between 3 different hives to do so.
However once more tech is in the game, aliens getting a 2nd hive <b>shouldn't</b> spell game over for marines as it currently does. If its still does, then we should look more closely at all options, including the the number of tech points.
But I think the nature of summit also leads it self to being a 'floaty resource battle' as you put it (which is the map everyone is playing). I enjoy playing on rockdown in 179, since marines are able to lock out aliens from central access due to a (I admit cheesy) ARC at the back of marine start (or at WW..not so cheesy). Then marines can lock the door leading to auxiliary node, focus on taking WW, and then periodically scan to see if aliens are trying to take gully. Also being a smaller map gives ARCs more angles to work with. It just too bad more servers don't play rockdown. I think you'd see closer win ratios.
Right now Summit has no means for marines to lockout aliens out of certain areas in the early-mid game, which would force aliens to first go higher tech to break it. There are no doors to speak of in summit, the map is too big and wide for ARCs to be used as defensive area denial of key areas, and there are many angles marines have to cover in order to prevent alien movement....not too mention that fades (in the current tech environment) are a bit OP and have free reign of the entire map (doors would help here). It's something map makers should keep in mind, but again its really hard to know for sure when not everything planned is in the game yet.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>This will be my last post in this thread solely focusing on this topic. I don't want the thread derailed. We probably should move this discussion elsewhere.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
This idea is to have both teams easily able to expand to the resource points, but then they have to choose whether to take the 2nd tech point or the middle first as there are two central battlefronts. Both second tech points lay in direct route to the middle tech point while also being the only route to the double resource point. Though once a team has their second expansion they can go for the double resource point or try lock down the middle expansion. If a team decides to expand to the middle tech point first they will have a large control of the map and they will have the ability to directly attack the enemy's 2nd tech expansion and resource points.
This is looking really, really sweet. If you need some custom props when you finish up (stuff like the spiral reactors etc) hit me up, I'll see what I can do :)
I really like what i've seen so far, the shape of this map is rather intriguing, seems reminiscent of a horse shoe. I'm also loving those curves! [drools from the mouth profusely] you can NEVER have too many curves in a NS2 map ;)
Ok after deciding to scrap another design this is what I've decided to have for the Marine Start after three days of hardcore dedication. This is the docking inner airlock of the space complex.
Brilliant Design!! It has a modern functional feel to it. The only thing i would change is the scale on the little orange lights, I found making them short takes away the drinking glass look and gives them more of a plastic/glass dome look. (You have to use the prop properties window to scale as the scale tool won't do it)
<!--quoteo(post=1857840:date=Jul 4 2011, 03:26 PM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Jul 4 2011, 03:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1857840"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... Eager to play this one, Keep up the good work!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am also very eager to play this map, that being 95% of my motivation to finish it!
I've been thinking of what to call this map for a while and I've come down to 'Vagabond' as a noun defined as <i>"a person, usually without a permanent home, who wanders from place to place"</i>
Also found a quote which could sum up the space station/ship quite well. The <u>star to star</u> is my take on it. <i>"...he who goes from country to country</i>(star to star)<i>, guided by the blind impulse of curiosity, is a vagabond."</i>
Absolutely love the style, it's completely unique compared to the majority of the maps being developed.
Only one gripe, the ceiling in the last screenshot, the textures aligned like that look rather odd compared to the very uniform style of everything else, just seems out of place to me.
But other than that it looks absolutely stunning, great work.
I love what I see so far! Just wanted to make one suggestion about that awesome spiral power core thing. Please only put ONE in the map. A piece like that is so iconic it deserves its own room (probably in the dead center of the map), and it should define that room.
I could see some smaller, more mundane things throughout the map, showing a connection to this source. However, having a bunch of replicas of this one thing would cheapen the effect.
Or, if you really need more than one, put them all in the same room as centerpieces. Multiple pillars like that would make great gameplay in a room.
<!--quoteo(post=1858491:date=Jul 6 2011, 11:54 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Jul 6 2011, 11:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858491"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love what I see so far! Just wanted to make one suggestion about that awesome spiral power core thing. Please only put ONE in the map. A piece like that is so iconic it deserves its own room (probably in the dead center of the map), and it should define that room.
I could see some smaller, more mundane things throughout the map, showing a connection to this source. However, having a bunch of replicas of this one thing would cheapen the effect.
Or, if you really need more than one, put them all in the same room as centerpieces. Multiple pillars like that would make great gameplay in a room.
Keep up the good work!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1853468:date=Jun 16 2011, 07:02 AM:name=Remedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Remedy @ Jun 16 2011, 07:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1853468"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey everyone just showing some mapping I've done so far on the spark editor.
I've decided for now it's going to be a recently inhabited space station by the kharaa. I haven't chosen whats the stations function will be, but that will ultimately be shown (once decided) in the main tech point room as it will serve that function aesthetically.
Corridor leading from Marine start which will be overlooking into space.
<!--quoteo(post=1858510:date=Jul 7 2011, 01:20 AM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Jul 7 2011, 01:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1858510"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am pretty sure that is what he plans on doing..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's got screenshots of two more of them in another smaller room. It made me sad.
My posts also include some of my thoughts on the map as well.
As for the single spiral generator and where it will end up in the map. <!--quoteo(post=1854875:date=Jun 21 2011, 12:25 PM:name=Remedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Remedy @ Jun 21 2011, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854875"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...At this moment its going to be the 2nd expansion for the marines as the 'energy core', but i think it would be far more better scaled larger and placed at the middle tech point as a key feature and the 'heart' of the map...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And concerning the copy paste double generators. <!--quoteo(post=1854988:date=Jun 22 2011, 12:39 AM:name=Remedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Remedy @ Jun 22 2011, 12:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was my first layout for the 2nd marine tech point, the idea was that the marines can shoot and defend from the top section, but I found it had to little space for buildings yet the room was already fairly big itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hope this helps.
Ah my bad, I missed those. Glad to hear we were already kinda on the same page, I'd rather sound like a goof anyday if it means a great map is on the way! :P
Hey people just some screens of the mapping progress so far.
This corridor is going to replace the larger open windowed one I showed early in this thread. Reasons for the change... the passage between marine start and second tech is supposed to small(not for onos) and also I want to use those large panoramic windows for the center of the map.
Those bars of light are very fun to move under as they cast some cool shadows on the player model.
Everything has been very impressive so far, seem to have taken the theme and style everyone has been throwing out but added a professional touch to it all. Good work, keep it up.
<!--quoteo(post=1860460:date=Jul 13 2011, 10:55 PM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Jul 13 2011, 10:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1860460"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That corridor is Hella cool. Nice job. My only crit is the low-tech feel<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to take anything away from the other mappers using a similar lighting style and theme but he's nailed it for me(The low-tech look as you put it), fantastic lighting, great architecture style and great detail with what looks to be very few props which is great, considering quite a few maps (including mine) use props heavily. Not that that is a bad thing but it shows you don't need tons of props to have a fantastic looking level.
The map reminds me of ns_nothing, don't know about anyone else.
love your style and use of light/shadow, definitely one to watch :D
EDIT: @ Janos; i know <a href="http://ken20banks.com/portfolio/index.html" target="_blank">ken20banks</a> was heavily influenced by Ridley Scott's use of light and shadow to give life and emotion to a scene (Alien, BladeRunner) and i can definitely see similarities to ns_nothing here :D
those last two shots i feel are somewhat reminiscent of Fallout 3 in tone and style. while they defiantly don't look 'lived in' yet, that will come with time and isn't really relevant at this stage, i will say, the imagery does create a feeling of isolation somewhat, at least for me anyway :P
Once again glad to see people are enjoying the progress so far!
@ Janos: I wouldn't say my map itself is somewhat professional, but I critique my work very heavily. Often while mapping I'll delete 75% of a fews hours work and take that last quarter of what I've made and start over then expand from there. It seems to work as the prominent features I'm left with do most the detailing for each area. Appreciate the compliments!
@ fmpone: I to feel that the area is low tech, but I think what you meant was there aren't many props breaking up the flowing progression of the area. As for that I will be adding some small individual features to a few sections of the corridor not to repeat the copy&paste feel, but simply to give each wall section a little bit of definition(not to much though).
@ MotherGoose: Whenever this map gets me stumped I watch Bladerunner and the Alien quadrilogy :) Overwhelmed that the corridor feels isolating what else do you expect in deep uncharted space?
Comments
I doubt the standard will move to 4. Right now it may seem like 5 is too much and in favor of aliens, but we need to wait for Marine Exo and JP, and for alien's needing 3 hives for Onos, 3rd chamber and other high tier stuff. Right now aliens only need 2 hives to get Fade, which noticeably swings the favor to aliens...which is why 4 might make sense right now. However, if there were only 4 once the game was feature complete, marines would only need to capture and turtle one other base to deny aliens full tech. Then marines can simply defend, tech up, and then use that forward base as launching point for a siege. 5 tech points makes for an exponentially more dynamic game.
I'd continue making 5, and imo thats where the devs are going with the game. I just don't see them switching to 4.
Now if you want to make 6, this does start favoring aliens (as 4 favors marine). You would need to add marine friendly features to the map, such as more doors, tech points closer to marines, less tech rooms with resource nodes, rooms with no tech point but multiple res nodes (since it gives marines a worthwhile expansion), less (or zero) rooms with broken power nodes (such as crevice and crossroads in summit).
Use to be good in NS1 rushing and holding the first hive then contesting the second.
Early game feels like a floaty resource battle now.
Use to be good in NS1 rushing and holding the first hive then contesting the second.
Early game feels like a floaty resource battle now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since the game is feature incomplete, its hard to say what the real cause is of any problem afflicting NS2 balance right now. Currently, most games are decided at the alien 2nd hive. Early game consists of marines on mad dashes making sure aliens don't get that second hive...and having to run between 3 different hives to do so.
However once more tech is in the game, aliens getting a 2nd hive <b>shouldn't</b> spell game over for marines as it currently does. If its still does, then we should look more closely at all options, including the the number of tech points.
But I think the nature of summit also leads it self to being a 'floaty resource battle' as you put it (which is the map everyone is playing). I enjoy playing on rockdown in 179, since marines are able to lock out aliens from central access due to a (I admit cheesy) ARC at the back of marine start (or at WW..not so cheesy). Then marines can lock the door leading to auxiliary node, focus on taking WW, and then periodically scan to see if aliens are trying to take gully. Also being a smaller map gives ARCs more angles to work with. It just too bad more servers don't play rockdown. I think you'd see closer win ratios.
Right now Summit has no means for marines to lockout aliens out of certain areas in the early-mid game, which would force aliens to first go higher tech to break it. There are no doors to speak of in summit, the map is too big and wide for ARCs to be used as defensive area denial of key areas, and there are many angles marines have to cover in order to prevent alien movement....not too mention that fades (in the current tech environment) are a bit OP and have free reign of the entire map (doors would help here). It's something map makers should keep in mind, but again its really hard to know for sure when not everything planned is in the game yet.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro--><b>This will be my last post in this thread solely focusing on this topic. I don't want the thread derailed. We probably should move this discussion elsewhere.</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
This idea is to have both teams easily able to expand to the resource points, but then they have to choose whether to take the 2nd tech point or the middle first as there are two central battlefronts. Both second tech points lay in direct route to the middle tech point while also being the only route to the double resource point. Though once a team has their second expansion they can go for the double resource point or try lock down the middle expansion. If a team decides to expand to the middle tech point first they will have a large control of the map and they will have the ability to directly attack the enemy's 2nd tech expansion and resource points.
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/36/lllgn.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2606/lllgn.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Yes I can see the misaligned texture.
This is the docking inner airlock of the space complex.
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/228/2011070400001.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4277/2011070400001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/2011070400002.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4940/2011070400002.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/40/2011070400004.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5182/2011070400004.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Once again there are no props in there at this point, but I will do some decorating soon so the marines feel at home.
Eager to play this one, Keep up the good work!
I am also very eager to play this map, that being 95% of my motivation to finish it!
I've been thinking of what to call this map for a while and I've come down to 'Vagabond'
as a noun defined as <i>"a person, usually without a permanent home, who wanders from place to place"</i>
Also found a quote which could sum up the space station/ship quite well. The <u>star to star</u> is my take on it.
<i>"...he who goes from country to country</i>(star to star)<i>, guided by the blind impulse of curiosity, is a vagabond."</i>
NS2_Vagabond?
I'm a bit concerned about the lack of places to hide for aliens, such as roof spaces.
Only one gripe, the ceiling in the last screenshot, the textures aligned like that look rather odd compared to the very uniform style of everything else, just seems out of place to me.
But other than that it looks absolutely stunning, great work.
Just wanted to make one suggestion about that awesome spiral power core thing. Please only put ONE in the map. A piece like that is so iconic it deserves its own room (probably in the dead center of the map), and it should define that room.
I could see some smaller, more mundane things throughout the map, showing a connection to this source. However, having a bunch of replicas of this one thing would cheapen the effect.
Or, if you really need more than one, put them all in the same room as centerpieces. Multiple pillars like that would make great gameplay in a room.
Keep up the good work!
Just wanted to make one suggestion about that awesome spiral power core thing. Please only put ONE in the map. A piece like that is so iconic it deserves its own room (probably in the dead center of the map), and it should define that room.
I could see some smaller, more mundane things throughout the map, showing a connection to this source. However, having a bunch of replicas of this one thing would cheapen the effect.
Or, if you really need more than one, put them all in the same room as centerpieces. Multiple pillars like that would make great gameplay in a room.
Keep up the good work!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am pretty sure that is what he plans on doing..
I've decided for now it's going to be a recently inhabited space station by the kharaa.
I haven't chosen whats the stations function will be, but that will ultimately be shown (once decided) in the main
tech point room as it will serve that function aesthetically.
Corridor leading from Marine start which will be overlooking into space.
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/2011061600001s.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/993/2011061600001s.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Room leading to the 2nd Tech room for Marines.
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/688/2011061600002t.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9305/2011061600002t.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/263/2011061600004.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5701/2011061600004.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/861/2011061600005.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/5273/2011061600005.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/2011061600003.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/374/2011061600003.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I realllllly dig the nice, subtle lighting on that last screenshot. Sweet
He's got screenshots of two more of them in another smaller room. It made me sad.
As for the single spiral generator and where it will end up in the map.
<!--quoteo(post=1854875:date=Jun 21 2011, 12:25 PM:name=Remedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Remedy @ Jun 21 2011, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854875"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...At this moment its going to be the 2nd expansion for the marines as the 'energy core', but i think it would be far more
better scaled larger and placed at the middle tech point as a key feature and the 'heart' of the map...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And concerning the copy paste double generators.
<!--quoteo(post=1854988:date=Jun 22 2011, 12:39 AM:name=Remedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Remedy @ Jun 22 2011, 12:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1854988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was my first layout for the 2nd marine tech point, the idea was that the marines can shoot
and defend from the top section, but I found it had to little space for buildings yet the room was already
fairly big itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hope this helps.
This corridor is going to replace the larger open windowed one I showed early in this thread.
Reasons for the change... the passage between marine start and second tech is supposed to small(not for onos) and
also I want to use those large panoramic windows for the center of the map.
Those bars of light are very fun to move under as they cast some cool shadows on the player model.
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/2011071300001.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9678/2011071300001.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/2011071300002f.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1710/2011071300002f.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
I should have some screenshots of a few resource rooms in a week or so.
Not to take anything away from the other mappers using a similar lighting style and theme but he's nailed it for me(The low-tech look as you put it), fantastic lighting, great architecture style and great detail with what looks to be very few props which is great, considering quite a few maps (including mine) use props heavily. Not that that is a bad thing but it shows you don't need tons of props to have a fantastic looking level.
The map reminds me of ns_nothing, don't know about anyone else.
love your style and use of light/shadow, definitely one to watch :D
EDIT: @ Janos; i know <a href="http://ken20banks.com/portfolio/index.html" target="_blank">ken20banks</a> was heavily influenced by Ridley Scott's use of light and shadow to give life and emotion to a scene (Alien, BladeRunner) and i can definitely see similarities to ns_nothing here :D
while they defiantly don't look 'lived in' yet, that will come with time and isn't really relevant at this stage, i will say, the imagery does create a feeling of isolation somewhat, at least for me anyway :P
well done Remedy, love your work :D
@ Janos: I wouldn't say my map itself is somewhat professional, but I critique my work very heavily. Often while mapping I'll delete 75% of a fews hours work and take that last quarter of what I've made and start over then expand from there. It seems to work as the prominent features I'm left with do most the detailing for each area. Appreciate the compliments!
@ fmpone: I to feel that the area is low tech, but I think what you meant was there aren't many props breaking up the flowing progression of the area. As for that I will be adding some small individual features to a few sections of the corridor not to repeat the copy&paste feel, but simply to give each wall section a little bit of definition(not to much though).
@ MotherGoose: Whenever this map gets me stumped I watch Bladerunner and the Alien quadrilogy :) Overwhelmed that the corridor feels isolating what else do you expect in deep uncharted space?