New Map Issues

AnnihilatorzaAnnihilatorza Join Date: 2007-01-07 Member: 59490Members
in Mapping
<div class="IPBDescription">Minor Issues</div>Good Day

I tried using the spark editor about a year ago when it was severely bugged and it crashed on me all the time, It is much better now.

I am having an issue that I am falling out of the bottom of the map for some reason when I start the game. I have added a player start and a ns2_gamerules and a 2 team spawners for marines and aliens but can’t seem to find the reason, I am most likely missing something basic.

This is the fastest and easiest editor I have ever used, Build, unrealed, hammer, quark ECT all of them just feel clumsy compared to this one. I am still very much a noob when it comes to this editor I am learning all the time the whole change from brushes to faces, take a little getting used to.

I would appreciate any tips that you guys have for me.

Thanks
Annihilator
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Comments

  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    I'm not entirely sure about this as I usually have a ready_room_start as initial spawn. But I think the game is looking for a ready_room_start initially and when it can't find one, it spawns you at the origin of the world, which could be underneath your map.
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  • AnnihilatorzaAnnihilatorza Join Date: 2007-01-07 Member: 59490Members
    That is mostly likely it, I will have to test when I get home, last time I used spark that was not in the game.

    Are there any other hints or tip you can share with me ?
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited June 2011
    Well this might not be well known, as it is kinda hidden on the wiki. But I've tested the tech_points a few times with and without CollisionGeometry and there is a slim chance your macs or drifters can't build on tech_nodes without a face underneath it (added to the CollisionGeometry group)

    Also <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Natural_Selection_2_Mapping" target="_blank">the wiki</a> is a great place to find more information on mapping as well this here forum :)
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  • AnnihilatorzaAnnihilatorza Join Date: 2007-01-07 Member: 59490Members
    edited June 2011
    Yes been going through that quite a lot, checking out other people maps and downloading some youtube clips to have on hand.
    I have downloaded your new sample map as well, but as it stands you are one of the best Mappers I know of on these forums and you have been mapping for NS for a very long time, so you are a veritable fountain of knowledge when it comes to ns mapping.

    So rather just get some help from the master while I can. :D
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited June 2011
    SparkE is new for me as well though. And there are a bunch on here that are quite amazing at making things look, well amazing. I'm still having some troubles in the lighting department, I just can't get it to look like I want like I could in goldSRC :(
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  • AnnihilatorzaAnnihilatorza Join Date: 2007-01-07 Member: 59490Members
    I have not used much lighting so far, but the lighting pallet is different from anything else I have used before it seems to be a little softer.
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  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    Running out of time to reply but I hope this helps. I had the same problem, using marine_start. The thing is, you have to spawn in on the ready room entity.

    You're using the wrong entity to spawn in. Marine_start is for when you are in the ready room and join the marine start section, and it teleports you (I think).
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  • AnnihilatorzaAnnihilatorza Join Date: 2007-01-07 Member: 59490Members
    That does make sense.
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  • BlasphemyBlasphemy Join Date: 2008-05-02 Member: 64201Members, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    edited June 2011
    During my current mapping escapade, I've found a couple bugs with the editor which I am unsure as to whether the devs know about it or not.

    One being that if you scale faces, or anything in general, sometimes the scale falls off the grid and has all these weird face sizes like 255.01x0x128. At first, I thought it wasn't a problem, and it was just a visual bug, but the faces ARE actually being placed as such, and you can see the line borders on what would be a flat face while using the alien flashlight.

    Another problem is that I've found separated faces welded together after closing and opening the editor, but all the vertices are still present, its just that one vertex will be completely isolated, and the other one in the same place is connecting both faces.

    Although these issues may be small, I am concerned as to whether or not this will affect optimization, as a small gap in the wall could possibly force the game to render rooms which you shouldn't be able to see, and having unconnected vertices doesn't sound like it does the engine much good either.
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  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1855394:date=Jun 22 2011, 12:49 PM:name=Blasphemy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blasphemy @ Jun 22 2011, 12:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855394"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->During my current mapping escapade, I've found a couple bugs with the editor which I am unsure as to whether the devs know about it or not.

    One being that if you scale faces, or anything in general, sometimes the scale falls off the grid and has all these weird face sizes like 255.01x0x128. At first, I thought it wasn't a problem, and it was just a visual bug, but the faces ARE actually being placed as such, and you can see the line borders on what would be a flat face while using the alien flashlight.

    Another problem is that I've found separated faces welded together after closing and opening the editor, but all the vertices are still present, its just that one vertex will be completely isolated, and the other one in the same place is connecting both faces.

    Although these issues may be small, I am concerned as to whether or not this will affect optimization, as a small gap in the wall could possibly force the game to render rooms which you shouldn't be able to see, and having unconnected vertices doesn't sound like it does the engine much good either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    We must be like minded : ) I can answer all your questions.

    When you are scaling faces, have you tried hitting the < > keys? They will cycle through the possible origins to scale from. So what I do is select the model, use the move tool, and align the model to the grid on one side using the < > if I have to. Once you have that aligned, select the scale tool and scale the model to snap to the other side of the grid, then you have it fraction free on the grid.

    The welding you experience seems to happen to everyone and is done automatically. Personally I think it's more trouble than beneficial and I imagine it'll be changed eventually. I think we should have to manual weld, or at least be able to turn off auto weld. However about the isolated vertex, this can happen for two reasons. First being you manipulated the vertex on top of another one to make a triangle, in which case you should use the 'weld vertices' feature. Secondly, because when deleting a face and not being able to double click to select-all due to welding issues, you delete just the face and then the lines, and end up missing something. This really bugs me as I have an OCD with map cleanliness, so I imagine a fix will come to eliminate the island vertices.

    In terms of performance, a gap in the wall shouldn't do anything. The engine does not use a visibility precalculation, and does so in real time, and in order to block rendering visibility you need to use occlusion geometry. Find more about that here:

    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113424" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=113424</a>
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  • AnnihilatorzaAnnihilatorza Join Date: 2007-01-07 Member: 59490Members
    ye dealing with faces instead of full brushes is kinda wierd but so much faster to map with.
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  • BlasphemyBlasphemy Join Date: 2008-05-02 Member: 64201Members, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    I just tried the corner scaling technique and it still left me with a wonky side. It seems the only way to fix it is to keep scaling it around until it reverts back onto grid.
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  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1855421:date=Jun 22 2011, 02:04 PM:name=Blasphemy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blasphemy @ Jun 22 2011, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855421"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just tried the corner scaling technique and it still left me with a wonky side. It seems the only way to fix it is to keep scaling it around until it reverts back onto grid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Perhaps I didn't describe what to do best. pSyk0mAn described a way of dealing with this, I'll take a look around for what he said.

    Keep trying until then though, I know it is fairly simple to work around once you know what to do.
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  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1855421:date=Jun 22 2011, 08:04 PM:name=Blasphemy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blasphemy @ Jun 22 2011, 08:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1855421"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just tried the corner scaling technique and it still left me with a wonky side. It seems the only way to fix it is to keep scaling it around until it reverts back onto grid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, or rearranging vertices.
    If you scale around until it's back on the grid, one or multiple lines are usually shorter, because one vertex might be a little off into the inside, which isn't shown by the scale unless you check scale on lines.
    You can also notice that one or multiple vertices are slightly off, when the texture scale is, for example, something like 0.9999/1.001 instead of the supposed 1.0 .
    This and the current auto-weld of vertices led me to build most of the geometry tied together and only seperate geometry, where it is possible to extend floor or wallfaces so vertices don't overlap.
    After all it's easier to change things and select certain geometry, when dbl-clicking it doesn't select the whole room.
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