Extreme low speed for Flamethrower
Classic319
Join Date: 2010-11-06 Member: 74789Members
Join Date: 2010-11-06 Member: 74789Members
<div class="IPBDescription">offensive +, defensive -</div>Unfortunately, I think today's flamethrower is still a feature that doesn't fit to NS2.
It looks great, but nothing is balanced for both Kharra and Marines.
So weird that it's way too strong for small enemies, but also weird that it's not that powerful against structures and fades. It's just to interfere sight of fades
Anyway the problem is not that important, I found a small but effective solution IMO.
First of all, it's sorry for players who'd like to play as Kharra, but my opinion is to increase damage of Flamethrower much more. Just like that so-called overpowered flamethrower at early version, or at least really effective for the structures.
But the important thing is that to make marines who hold flame REALLY vunerable on defending himself. To make pyro not be able to sprint is so fair and also to decrease normal speed of his movement.
Furthermore, to make it hard for him even to turn himself when he's flaming.
To limit amount of flamethrower and to cost it much more is in my opinion also really good. Then teamwork of marines will be extremly increased.
; defending pyro
What do you think?
It looks great, but nothing is balanced for both Kharra and Marines.
So weird that it's way too strong for small enemies, but also weird that it's not that powerful against structures and fades. It's just to interfere sight of fades
Anyway the problem is not that important, I found a small but effective solution IMO.
First of all, it's sorry for players who'd like to play as Kharra, but my opinion is to increase damage of Flamethrower much more. Just like that so-called overpowered flamethrower at early version, or at least really effective for the structures.
But the important thing is that to make marines who hold flame REALLY vunerable on defending himself. To make pyro not be able to sprint is so fair and also to decrease normal speed of his movement.
Furthermore, to make it hard for him even to turn himself when he's flaming.
To limit amount of flamethrower and to cost it much more is in my opinion also really good. Then teamwork of marines will be extremly increased.
; defending pyro
What do you think?
Comments
As for changes to it(except the effect as they are working on); Adrenaline regen should not be decreased with 80% when on fire. I think it's a little too powerful, maybe 50% would work better. 80% makes fades completely immobile if they are low on adrenaline. 50% could give them a slightly better chance of getting away in that situation.
I'd rather see the direct damage's type changed from Normal to Light, and the Burn DoT changed to a % of Total Health rather than a static 8 per second whilst on Fire. Were this the case, catching Fire could not justifiably occur EVERY FLAMETHROWER HIT, so something would have to reduce the probability. I'm all for Armor % reducing the risk of catching Fire.
<!--quoteo(post=1849620:date=Jun 2 2011, 11:14 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Jun 2 2011, 11:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849620"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for changes to it(except the effect as they are working on); Adrenaline regen should not be decreased with 80% when on fire. I think it's a little too powerful, maybe 50% would work better. 80% makes fades completely immobile if they are low on adrenaline. 50% could give them a slightly better chance of getting away in that situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Fade (Blink) is being overhauled as well, so this may end up being a moot point.
The new fade blink will use adrenaline as well, so its a pretty valid point :)
But lets see when patch comes :P
But lets see when patch comes :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We haven't been told of the initial cost, the drain formula, or any of the variables involved, so it MAY be a moot point. Wasn't trying to invalidate it right off the bat; like you said, we'll have to see.
Onos and cloak have nothing to do with this discussion, and won't affect it.
I'd rather see the direct damage's type changed from Normal to Light, and the Burn DoT changed to a % of Total Health rather than a static 8 per second whilst on Fire. Were this the case, catching Fire could not justifiably occur EVERY FLAMETHROWER HIT, so something would have to reduce the probability. I'm all for Armor % reducing the risk of catching Fire.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why is it whenever I open a thread, I see that Kuban has already explained exactly the right solution?
The flamethrower should act as a supportive utility knife....and not the frontline beat stick. Of course, it should be the premiere anti-infestation weapon. It should act as an area denial weapon (similar to lerk gas). It should be good at decloack/un-hiding aliens. Good for blasting the sh!t out of vents and roasting any skulks/lerks hidden in there.
Again, the flamethrower should do most of its damage as an AoE DoT. An alien standing in the flame should die relatively quickly (depends on the lifeform). However, the subsequent "on fire" DoT debuff once outside the flame should be relatively minor. No more running away to the next room but still dieing like a little b!tch. Its just not fun gameplay...its certainly not fun for the alien.. and hell its not even that much fun for the marine, since many of the kills happen in completely different rooms. I like the idea of current armor determining the dot strength. More armor, less damage. Excellent against skulks, abysmal against onos...and everyone else in between somewhere.
Instead of the "on fire" dot debuff, the aliens gain a "burned" debuff that prevents (or lowers considerably) any health/armor regen for 10-20secs. It would have a similar effect to the current flamethrower "on-fire" dot by removing some of the advantages of running away, and in effect putting the alien out of the game until the debuff expires....but is not as unsatisfying as dieing slowly(sometimes not so slowly) to a never ending DoT....and then dieing to it.
It's kind of boring stuff. So my opinion is to nurf it or make people not to hold flame. That can be cost, or some disadvantages at defending speeds... etc
There is no need to nerf it, you can kill a flamer with any lifeforms, even a skulk, if you got a little skill. It will be worked on, but not in that way you suggests. A ultra slow flamer that is anti-structural? No no, you're suggesting to make it like a siege weapon. And that is wrong in my opinion. Marines can't shoot flames and run at the same time, worst aguement ever. :)
If your talking about jump spamming marines, that will be fixed in time.
Reload time should be a little increased.
When 'on fire' your adrenaline regen should be reduced by 50% instead of 80%.
^
Those nerfs it might need. But make it a siege weapon? No way. Flamer is anti-personel (smaller lifeforms) and a support weapon. And hopefully it will become the cure for Infestation at some point again.
However, the reason I said about flamethrower as anti structure is because IMO today's flamethrower make the game so boring for both sides.
Flamethrower that's weaker against structure than axe, but way too effective against skulks. What should marines and aliens do? For marines just jumping around, and click MOUSE1 button forward to structure, reload, click MOUSE1 again and again and again and looking at the percentage of enemies' structures that decreases every 1% per seconds. When will the same pattern be finished? Isn't it boring and annoying for each sides? It definately decreases speed of game. NS1 has never been boring but much more speedy while round goes to climax.
Whether it's worst argument or not, flamethrower is still the worst feature for both sides. Idea is perfect, looks perfect, but doesn't fit to game. So it must be nerfed for someways and also verf(berf?) for someways. Finally to make aliens HAPPY when they kill even just 1 pyro, and for pyros to have lots of responsibility as real important-expensive weapon. - unfortunately, it's today not that expensive therefore not that important for alien to kill one of those spamming pyros.
Its meant to be weaker against structures than the axe. Axe is anti-structure, Flamer is not.
The flamethrower should be pretty powerful against lesser lifeforms, as it is now. Two good(bad players, maybe not) skulks make it almost certain that the flamer goes down before they die, and one skulk can also take him down with some sneakiness.
The flamer don't decrease the speed of the game, its simply a support weapon. Buy it, and stick together with your teammates. You can do alot of damage that way.
As more end-game features go in (jetpack, exosuit, onos etc.) the game will change alot, of you won't have as many of these stalemates as you have now.
When the new flame effect gets in the game, it won't be like a instant lightsaber of fire, as it is now.
The nerfs/changes I posted above could be nessesary, they do not need to be buffed in any way.
It already is a great satisfaction to take a flamer down as a skulk, and its pretty easy as a lerk. If you got some skill and know how to keep your distance.
The flamer fits the game, but it still needs a little work, and they know that.
Running into a room full of DI and flaming it a bit then running off would cause a bit of damage to the structures.
Flamethrower should make Hydras, Crags, Whips, and other structures be slower in their ability. For example; a hydra on fire would make it attack twice as slow and the same for the crag healing and whip attack and so on a so forth. Making it a good weapon against a protected room.
As I understand it, UWE wanted it to be the main method of dealing with DI while also being a suppression/support weapon. I never got the feeling they meant for it to be either a life form killing weapon nor a anti-structural weapon.
If that is the case, it needs to be affective at suppressing/keeping aliens from either getting close or running away, and it needs to be effective at taking out DI.
I personally don't like the energy drain on it. It just feels weird, and if you're a new player it doesn't make sense until some one explains it to you. My alternative would be for it to slow player movement and attacks down; couple this with a nice animation of the alien flailing a bit to try and put the flames out, and it makes perfect sense to new and veteran players while filling its role as a suppressive/support weapon. When a player is on fire, he can't move around nearly as fast nor can he attack nearly as much, but it doesn't cause the really annoying and badly implemented energy drain that just feels like it was tacked on as an afterthought.
For the DI portion, they should have, if not already implemented, fire stop all life regeneration for its burn duration. If pustules had high life regen, then the most affective way of killing them would always involve a flamethrower to disable their regen ability so the other marines could finish them off.
It annoying as Alien to wait almost 1 min sometimes before you can go back to Action (having no energy all the time..) thats even more then whit devour on NS1. And that my biggest problem, because there us not always a Gorge that can put the Flames of or he burns to and has no Energy...
As marines in late game it is easy to win with flamers.
Just send some suicide Flamers to a hive all the time and 2 suicide SG ( SG only focusing hive; Flamers Gorges and the other Aliens) and you will win! Always! And why? Aliens can't regen Energy, and with 2 marines and some res yo can do that atleast 4min without a bigger break than 10s.
And dealing a min. Of around 12 SG hits per suicide will do the rest.
I really can't understand why such a "Powerweapon" has no neg. Aspects. Pistol has it ( smal mag,slow firerate in 2. Mode, slow reload), GL has it (smal mags, low rate of fire, visible slow granade), SG has it ( different damage by distance, spreads, very long reload) and the flamer has: not so fast reload, mid range damage.
Now the pros. Pistol hast high damage, fast rate of fire or high precision. GL high damage, corner shot, smal area damage,The SG has, very high damage and the spread (multiple targets).
So what has the Flamer: direct and damage over time ( from 8 dmg to around 400dmg if it's 8 dmg/s ), damage dealing in a wide area, high mags, drains aliens energy, deals damage to DI, blocks Aliens sight (if not in Alienmode), lights up aliens in dark places (no more flee and hide).
So anyone who says the Flamer does fit in in NS2 or thinks that weapon isn't OP, then I am sure that this person uses the unnamed ultimate "pro" (or name it Nanite instant teleport) of the Flamer, and this really sucks at some times!
Sorry but I can't se Flamers anymore. If it would be 1000Pres ok then leave it how it is...
And by the way, anyone ever heard about the Geneva Gonvention ;-)
I agree with you that energy drain is a really bad design decision and is extremely annoying from a player perspective. That is why I think slowing movement and attack speed down some would be a better option. You still have energy to use your abilities and fightback.
I'm still willing to give the flamethrower a shot. I think if properly implemented, it can have its place. Right now it is a problem though.