Either nerf infestation, or return flamers to their former state
Mkilbride
Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69952Members
Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69952Members
<div class="IPBDescription">It's so easy to get boxed in.</div>All a Alien has to do is double click, and bam, infestation happens. It takes like a minute of constant flame throwing to destroy it...and it's quite boring, and then, after you do it, bam, they can do it again. We had problems with the Aliens running around near the start infesting absolutely everything and it boxed us in, so we holed up, teched, took the slow approach and slowly one, of course they ######ed at us for "camping and taking forever", heck, it was the only strategy available, we couldn't expand.
Comments
<a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prototype" target="_blank">Prototype</a>
<a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prototype" target="_blank">Prototype</a>
Ok maybe not so much that last one, but srsly.
<a href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prototype" target="_blank">Prototype</a>
<a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prototype" target="_blank">Prototype</a>
Ok maybe not so much that last one, but srsly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya, but in the mean time they could drop the health of DI so that it can be killed with less than one flamethrower clip.
Opening it up to taking GL damage would make it a little less formidable...but the ARC cannon should change things.
NS2HD[165] or 166 shows how to take out a single link in the DI and manages to isolate and kill much more DI growth. The lesson: Look at the DI growth patterns and work on the weakest link, probably in doorways and other constricting geometry. And remember, dropping DI costs hive energy which is limited, so a large scale coordinated attack will also work in you favor.
50 POSTS!!
<img src="http://gwally.com/avatars/photos/the_count_150.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
50 POSTS!!
<img src="http://gwally.com/avatars/photos/the_count_150.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're a beast I tellz ya, a beast!
I agree, the amount of time it takes to kill infestation (as well as the amount of fuel + reloads it requires) is way over the top. Also, it seems that most players have a short attention span because after 10 seconds of shooting the floor they run off without finishing the kill. Not like there's any visual indicator that the DI is dying... like maybe if it turned yellow -> brown -> black -> dead.
One idea that may fix the situation is to prevent the alien com from dropping DI just anywhere INSTANTLY and instead have it where they can specify a destination for the infestation and over time the infestation will grow out to that spot (utilizing some of that advanced mac pathing to find the route). Naturally the source of the infestation will be the closest DI patch, or hive, to the destination, where res-cost of the DI is determined from the distance.
Another nerfing idea is the further from a hive the DI is, the slower it grows so even with a 3 hive lockdown it will be hard for aliens to quickly regrow over marine start. Also WTH i thought the devs said DI would not be allowed to grow inside marine start.
It was 5 minutes into the round, and we were struggling to get a secondary CC up, because they kept harassing our main base. Then, they Infested the entire map. I am not kidding you, we could not place a new structure anywhere, and we only had 1 CC...so we could -not- get rid of Dynamic Infestation. So we literally were boxed out and could do NOTHING.
This needs to change! Even the enemy team was saying it needs to be changed, but it was an effective strategy regardless...but it feels crazy OP now. I think DI Should only be spreadable a certain distance from the enemies base...
It was 5 minutes into the round, and we were struggling to get a secondary CC up, because they kept harassing our main base. Then, they Infested the entire map. I am not kidding you, we could not place a new structure anywhere, and we only had 1 CC...so we could -not- get rid of Dynamic Infestation. So we literally were boxed out and could do NOTHING.
This needs to change! Even the enemy team was saying it needs to be changed, but it was an effective strategy regardless...but it feels crazy OP now. I think DI Should only be spreadable a certain distance from the enemies base...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Until they fix this, the first things any marine comm should do is drop a 2nd cc and upgrade the first. Otherwise, the exact situation that happened to you in that game will (almost) always occur. Since only flamethrower can clear DI and DI prevents marine structure placement, if you can't get flamethrowers, then you lose 99 out of 100 times.
Another possibility is macs could come standard with flamethrowers.
Overall it doesn't make sense why the com can't build on DI... i mean if the DI is somehow digesting anything placed on it then why is it ok for marines to run through it without so much as a gas mask or biohazard suit.
Yeah, true, but what about a game of noobs versus some people who know this strategy? Aliens will win 100% of the time until they learn otherwise. It's horribly unabalanced. Make DI s tier 2 upgrade or something.
It was 5 minutes into the round, and we were struggling to get a secondary CC up, because they kept harassing our main base. Then, they Infested the entire map. I am not kidding you, we could not place a new structure anywhere, and we only had 1 CC...so we could -not- get rid of Dynamic Infestation. So we literally were boxed out and could do NOTHING.
This needs to change! Even the enemy team was saying it needs to be changed, but it was an effective strategy regardless...but it feels crazy OP now. I think DI Should only be spreadable a certain distance from the enemies base...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yup. I win close to 100% of my matches as alien commander because of this. It is SO easy, its almost not fun.
I really like the idea with setting a path for the infestation. Also, maybe the hp of the infestation-patches could scale with distance, so the closer to the hive, the tougher the DI would be.
Also, as the infestation is at the moment, DI is a misnomer in that, it is in no way dynamic. I always envisioned it as an autonomous entity, slowly creeping throughout the map. Perhaps guided by gorges in places but essentially growing by itself.
Maybe the DI could have a set amonut of growth/sec and if gorges guide the DI in one area, it will stagnate in another. Not wilt, just not grow further. If gorges stop guiding, the totality of the infestation entity would expand slightly in all dimentions.
Hope this makes sense.
I really like the idea with setting a path for the infestation. Also, maybe the hp of the infestation-patches could scale with distance, so the closer to the hive, the tougher the DI would be.
Also, as the infestation is at the moment, DI is a misnomer in that, it is in no way dynamic. I always envisioned it as an autonomous entity, slowly creeping throughout the map. Perhaps guided by gorges in places but essentially growing by itself.
Maybe the DI could have a set amonut of growth/sec and if gorges guide the DI in one area, it will stagnate in another. Not wilt, just not grow further. If gorges stop guiding, the totality of the infestation entity would expand slightly in all dimentions.
Hope this makes sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded.
It could be like how you can designate where units go after being constructed in a standard RTS. It would also reduce the exploitability of the current DI (connect through walls, early DI drop on res nodes near marine start, etc).
I'd also like to see all marine weapons do damage against it, but on a sliding scale. So pistol, rifle, axe, and shotgun do enough damage to slow DI spread, but not enough to reverse it. Grenade launcher, heavy machine gun, and flamethrower do enough damage to reverse it.
Although I think having the DIs health scale based on how long it's been alive rather than distance from the hive might be kinda cool.
So basically, it's just that those maps suck and on them Aliens will always win? That's crap, that's called developer over-sight. A good game dev will make sure all maps are equal and provide no severe advantage to one team.
this has been stated numerous times
At current I see them spreading it across the entire map minutes into the game. All Aliens just run from Command area and spread it over where Marines need to build CC's...which means we can't tech to Flamethrower...which means we're ######.
Anyway, I am 100% confident that UWE will continue to tweak the Infestation, maybe even make it Dynamic some day.
Eg.
You run into a resource room, bang a node down, and then using the pathing system, the nearest hive sends a DI link toward that room, or area. So rather than having DI placed directly by the commander and being a prerequisite for buildings the players take on the role of spreading it themselves by making structures the prerequisite for DI.
Its important to note I'm not suggesting the pustule idea here, just if you place a structure on the ground based on what types of structure it is a certain amount of DI will emanate outward, Krags will create alot, Hydras, minimal, res nodes a fair bit (so its the pustule idea with normal structures, ok so I sorta lied^^).
Hives will try and connect to the newly founded DI patches based on fastest route possible, this way rather than just being a random infestation patch, by the time the hives done its work, it will look like a progressive move to take an area.
On the upside this would stop the whole DI rushing tech nodes etc, because a gorge or the commander would have to practically rush marine start (getting beasted the whole time) in order to get enough DI down to prevent the marines from viciously murdering them.
When the Marines clear an area of most/all alien structures, the influence they had on the DI will recede. So by destroying alien outposts it will look as if you have made a physical impact on the area, instead of smashing a link of DI for 15 minutes with flame and then waiting another 5 minutes for it to feck off.
Additionally every pustule will only be able to connect to one pustule more, so it will be pretty easy to cut off the infestation if the aliens try to infest the marine base in the early game.
Can't wait :D
You should re-read that carefully. Marines can't destroy infestation from the start by destroying pustules, they only destroy the pustules. There is no indication that destroying a pustule will remove any infestation it has previously created. The Marines will be able to stop the progression of Infestation, but will still be unable to remove any prior Infestation without Flamethrowers.
<!--quoteo(post=1844674:date=May 7 2011, 09:42 AM:name=wulf 21)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wulf 21 @ May 7 2011, 09:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844674"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Additionally every pustule will only be able to connect to one pustule more, so it will be pretty easy to cut off the infestation if the aliens try to infest the marine base in the early game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1844703:date=May 7 2011, 02:31 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 7 2011, 02:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Won't the infestation chains be super vulnerable to a single marine running to the alien start and emptying his ammo into a root node? 500 hp is just one LMG clip...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, where is this indicated? "Each pustule can create exactly one more" does not imply that pustules can only be <b>connected</b> to one other pustule. Due to a lack of information it is currently just as likely that you could have multiple pustules (coming from a Hive that continuously produces pustules) connecting to one to reinforce that vein, as it is likely that you could only be able to connect to one.
My point is, we don't know.