Everything is derivative. An idea that is both new and good is a once-in-a-generation thing; it almost never happens and you should not count on it happening to you; all the rest is a fairly small set of ideas and concepts being reused endlessly in new and interesting <i>combinations</i>.
<!--quoteo(post=1842881:date=Apr 28 2011, 07:05 AM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ Apr 28 2011, 07:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->tolkien didn't draw pictures homeslice. original concept art is original. that was our point.
GW extended professional courtesy. tabletop != pc game. i'm saying, everything you see in warcraft/starcraft was visually stolen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No they did not. Why are Warhammer fanboys as bad as Halo fanboys? They feel like they got something to prove. I've played both games, seen the table top game n all, and visually, they're very different.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No they did not. Why are Warhammer fanboys as bad as Halo fanboys? They feel like they got something to prove. I've played both games, seen the table top game n all, and visually, they're very different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes they did. Why are Blizzard fanboys as bad as Halo fanboys? They feel like they got something to prove. I've played both games, seen the table top game n all, and visually, they're very much alike.
But seriously, i'm a big fan of both Blizzard and Games Workshop. But it's obvious that Blizzard stole a lot of GWs artwork and lore for both their xCraft series. I don't mind this, I'm glad they did! I find GWs fictional fantasy settings to be the very best there are. When Blizz took that and placed it into a computer game I became an even happier nerd! You go ahead and throw accusations of fanboyism - fact is, you're the only one getting emotional about this...
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1842943:date=Apr 28 2011, 02:14 PM:name=BitPon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BitPon @ Apr 28 2011, 02:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842943"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes they did. Why are Blizzard fanboys as bad as Halo fanboys? They feel like they got something to prove. I've played both games, seen the table top game n all, and visually, they're very much alike.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fanboys be Fanboys be Fanboys
I was actually going to let this topic die by itself but... in addition to being green I believe the general look of the orc as someone green with small eyes and two giant fangs was something that GW came up with. Tolkien never described how his orcs actually looked in his works. So the two giant fangs, small nose, small eyes etc... I'm fairly certain GWs orcs aren't even close in resemblance to how Tolkien imagined them. Orcs come in a lot of different shapes and colors, the LOTR-films has their orcs and DnD has theirs... Then there is WarCraft which basically has Warhammer's orcs. And Goblins, dwarfs, space marines... you name it.
Also, Legend from 1985 had Goblins / Orcs and they wore green facepaint. It's a common theme. Stop believing Warhammer invented them. StarCraft didn't invent them, WarCraft didn't invent them, and Warhammer didn't invent them, neither did Tolkien invent them. They're a mythical beast.
Also, Dungeons & Dragons:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Orcs are disfigured carnivorous humanoids, standing approximately 5'11 to 6'2, weighing from 180 to 280 lbs. They are easily noticeable due to their <b>green</b> to gray skin, lupine ears, lower canines resembling boar tusks, and their muscular builds. Orcs stand in a bent over shape making them appear as ape-like humans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Circa 1974. Warhammer = 1983, officially 1987.
I'm a fan of Warhammer to, but so many others are just self-righteous fanboys, claiming anything that has Orcs in the game copied it from Warhammer, or that any species of Aliens that mass-reproduce and swarm systems are copies of Tyranids. You know there are many movies earlier than Warhammer 40k that depict similar species. I'm just sick of going to Warhammer 40k boards when a new game comes out or so, and see 4-5 pages of constant bashing of Warcraft + StarCraft, claiming that Blizzard stole Gamers Workshops ideas and should be sued for it.
<!--quoteo(post=1843131:date=Apr 29 2011, 05:10 AM:name=Mkilbride)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkilbride @ Apr 29 2011, 05:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843131"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm just sick of going to Warhammer 40k boards when a new game comes out or so, and see 4-5 pages of constant bashing of Warcraft + StarCraft, claiming that Blizzard stole Gamers Workshops ideas and should be sued for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i went to the doctor the other day, and i told the doctor it hurts when i do this.
<!--quoteo(post=1842961:date=Apr 28 2011, 04:12 PM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Apr 28 2011, 04:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842961"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lol @ this thread. Try drawing an orc without being influenced by anything you ever saw or heard about them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It could be argued that Thaldarin's orc is influenced by what he knows about orcs in that it's intentionally as separate from them as he could make it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The modern use of the English word "orc" to denote a race of evil, humanoid creatures has its inception with J. R. R. Tolkien.
Tolkien's earliest elvish dictionaries include the entry "Ork (orq-) monster, ogre, demon" together with "orqindi ogresse". Tolkien sometimes used the plural form orqui in his early texts.[1]
Tolkien sometimes, particularly in The Hobbit, used the word "goblin" instead of "orc" to describe the same type of creature, with the smaller cave-dwelling variety that lived in the Misty Mountains being referred to as "goblins" and the larger ones elsewhere referred to as "orcs".[2] Later in his life he expressed an intention to change the spelling of "orc" to "ork" in The Silmarillion[3] but the only place where that spelling surfaced in his lifetime was in the published version of The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, in the poem Bombadil Goes Boating ("I'll call the orks on you: that'll send you running!"). In the posthumously published Silmarillion, the spelling "orcs" was retained.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tolkien invented them. And they weren't green.
The closest thing to Ork in myth is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ork_(folklore)" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ork_(folklore)</a> - and he's a dwarf demon.
There's nothing wrong with being derivative, <b>that is the point we're making</b>, but just admit to yourself that it (Warcraft) is derivative (of Warhammer). Get past the stage of denial.
<!--quoteo(post=1843297:date=Apr 30 2011, 12:25 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Apr 30 2011, 12:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843297"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's nothing wrong with being derivative, <b>that is the point we're making</b>, but just admit to yourself that it (Warcraft) is derivative (of Warhammer). Get past the stage of denial.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^that
I'm surprised the OP didn't bother complaining about the whole "space marine" that practically every space FPS falls back on now.
/sarcasm
Don't let it bother you and enjoy the new presentation the new artists/developers are giving you. :)
Comments
(See what I did there?)
GW extended professional courtesy. tabletop != pc game. i'm saying, everything you see in warcraft/starcraft was visually stolen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No they did not. Why are Warhammer fanboys as bad as Halo fanboys? They feel like they got something to prove. I've played both games, seen the table top game n all, and visually, they're very different.
Tolkien: ?
Warhammer: ?
Warcraft: ?
Yes they did. Why are Blizzard fanboys as bad as Halo fanboys? They feel like they got something to prove. I've played both games, seen the table top game n all, and visually, they're very much alike.
But seriously, i'm a big fan of both Blizzard and Games Workshop. But it's obvious that Blizzard stole a lot of GWs artwork and lore for both their xCraft series. I don't mind this, I'm glad they did! I find GWs fictional fantasy settings to be the very best there are. When Blizz took that and placed it into a computer game I became an even happier nerd! You go ahead and throw accusations of fanboyism - fact is, you're the only one getting emotional about this...
Fanboys be Fanboys be Fanboys
Tolkien: ?
Warhammer: ?
Warcraft: ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc</a>
i'm gonna go ahead and give the green credit to games workshop, unless beowulf has a color description.
Time for this geek to play some ns2 instead now.
Tolkien: No
Warhammer: Yes
Warcraft: Yes
Of all the colours Warcraft could have chosen for orcs, they picked green... why? Clearly because they ripped off Warhammer.
Orcs, Dark Green.
<a href="http://youtu.be/LLVgGADHg60" target="_blank">http://youtu.be/LLVgGADHg60</a>
Also, Legend from 1985 had Goblins / Orcs and they wore green facepaint. It's a common theme. Stop believing Warhammer invented them. StarCraft didn't invent them, WarCraft didn't invent them, and Warhammer didn't invent them, neither did Tolkien invent them. They're a mythical beast.
Also, Dungeons & Dragons:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Orcs are disfigured carnivorous humanoids, standing approximately 5'11 to 6'2, weighing from 180 to 280 lbs. They are easily noticeable due to their <b>green</b> to gray skin, lupine ears, lower canines resembling boar tusks, and their muscular builds. Orcs stand in a bent over shape making them appear as ape-like humans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Circa 1974. Warhammer = 1983, officially 1987.
I'm a fan of Warhammer to, but so many others are just self-righteous fanboys, claiming anything that has Orcs in the game copied it from Warhammer, or that any species of Aliens that mass-reproduce and swarm systems are copies of Tyranids. You know there are many movies earlier than Warhammer 40k that depict similar species. I'm just sick of going to Warhammer 40k boards when a new game comes out or so, and see 4-5 pages of constant bashing of Warcraft + StarCraft, claiming that Blizzard stole Gamers Workshops ideas and should be sued for it.
i went to the doctor the other day, and i told the doctor it hurts when i do this.
he said "stop doing that."
this is my orc/k
<img src="http://www.drawingcoach.com/image-files/htd_bunny_st4.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Get over it.
WRONG.
<a href="http://www.hark.com/clips/swmxjfkxyc-wrong-wrong" target="_blank">http://www.hark.com/clips/swmxjfkxyc-wrong-wrong</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The modern use of the English word "orc" to denote a race of evil, humanoid creatures has its inception with J. R. R. Tolkien.
Tolkien's earliest elvish dictionaries include the entry "Ork (orq-) monster, ogre, demon" together with "orqindi ogresse". Tolkien sometimes used the plural form orqui in his early texts.[1]
Tolkien sometimes, particularly in The Hobbit, used the word "goblin" instead of "orc" to describe the same type of creature, with the smaller cave-dwelling variety that lived in the Misty Mountains being referred to as "goblins" and the larger ones elsewhere referred to as "orcs".[2] Later in his life he expressed an intention to change the spelling of "orc" to "ork" in The Silmarillion[3] but the only place where that spelling surfaced in his lifetime was in the published version of The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, in the poem Bombadil Goes Boating ("I'll call the orks on you: that'll send you running!"). In the posthumously published Silmarillion, the spelling "orcs" was retained.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tolkien invented them. And they weren't green.
The closest thing to Ork in myth is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ork_(folklore)" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ork_(folklore)</a> - and he's a dwarf demon.
There's nothing wrong with being derivative, <b>that is the point we're making</b>, but just admit to yourself that it (Warcraft) is derivative (of Warhammer). Get past the stage of denial.
^that
I'm surprised the OP didn't bother complaining about the whole "space marine" that practically every space FPS falls back on now.
/sarcasm
Don't let it bother you and enjoy the new presentation the new artists/developers are giving you. :)