How are the level coming?
Hi :> I've been gone a long time and had to drop my level project but I can see many of you are still at it, with some newcomers too which is great. I've been checking out some of the new additions and beautiful models and its been making me want to pick up level building again. I could try to rework some of my old levels but I figure I might be better off starting over. Has the mapping guideline changed much over the year? Is it still iffy about tech points will have a powergrid? I'll probably start with the guide and map layouts and then go from there.
Comments
In my life I have other committments than the map I'm working on, I do around 40 minutes a day in my lunch time atm.
As for the black Thumbnails in the texture browser, I used Perso's fix <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=112797&view=findpost&p=1835079" target="_blank">Here.</a>
- No support for hosting custom maps/map rotations
- Buggy map editor
- Missing of planned features likely to break level design
Personally, I'm actually surprised anyone is mapping at all right now for NS2.
- No support for hosting custom maps/map rotations
- Buggy map editor
- Missing of planned features likely to break level design
Personally, I'm actually surprised anyone is mapping at all right now for NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The editor is more or less the same as the one the development team is using, I think it's missing some unseen props and a geometry tool, that's about it from what I can gather on the forums. Using "buggy editor" as an excuse for not mapping is a poor excuse, I can still map well enough and get by without difficulty in the current state on both 2D and 3D views.
The only valid point someone may have for not wanting to design a level right now is the gameplay element, we simply don't have the insight the design team have. The rest are just "kop outs" for not trying. Although equally, we have to be the guinea pigs for trying out different styles of level and play for the design team. After all, they have to stick to strict guidelines with all their information on such a small team, we have the freedom in the community to be a bit more expressive. So I don't really count that as a kop out, maybe a half-kop out.
If you want to make a map, you will, you won't make an excuse :P
The only valid point someone may have for not wanting to design a level right now is the gameplay element, we simply don't have the insight the design team have. The rest are just "kop outs" for not trying. Although equally, we have to be the guinea pigs for trying out different styles of level and play for the design team. After all, they have to stick to strict guidelines with all their information on such a small team, we have the freedom in the community to be a bit more expressive. So I don't really count that as a kop out, maybe a half-kop out.
If you want to make a map, you will, you won't make an excuse :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but if you want anyone besides diehard mappers to contribute, you really need to make the whole process a lot easier. Denigrating potential mappers who don't want to wade through the (mostly) unsupported custom mapping community as 'cop outs' is not really a good strategy.
To be honest, hardcore mappers who spent the time to figure things out that way ended up making the maps that stuck around for years and years in ns1. I was just happy they released all the tools as early as they did. It seems very user friendly to me, considering you don't have to compile the map and most of the entities do what they're supposed to do.
There are more people modifying and scripting the LUA. I'd say that's harder, they're unsupported in the way of looking and modifying that. There's some video tutorials for the editor.
If you find the editor difficult, I'd say pop in #nsmapping one evening and I can get a livestream up and show you what's what, where's what and how to do what.l The 2D views will be complicated for you to navigate props with the black background right now if you're new to mapping, although if you've used other editors you'll find you can get round that or just use the 3D view.
It's not our strategy. Once the game is more stable we'll be back to improving the editor. We have a big list of fixes and improvements ready and waiting. And while we don't have the time to properly support the mapping community at the moment, I do keep an eye in this forum, and I'm pretty sure some of the others do as well. We're always happy to answer questions although to be honest the guys around here are pretty clued-up anyway and often beat us to it.
<!--quoteo(post=1840775:date=Apr 13 2011, 07:32 AM:name=hookeyed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hookeyed @ Apr 13 2011, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1840775"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having what I assume is a pretty large base of models and textures missing is a pretty big handicap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not that many are missing actually. The "large base" as you put it is actually what the public has. What we've kept back are mostly unique landmark props that are part of each of our maps' visual identity (like the massive drilling equipment you'll see in Mineshaft). I think there may also be a couple of brand new props that still aren't public but I'm sure they will make it in sooner or later.
hmm, alright. I just figured there must be a pile of biodome textures and models sitting over there. Public build only has 3 :(
If you find the editor difficult, I'd say pop in #nsmapping one evening and I can get a livestream up and show you what's what, where's what and how to do what.l The 2D views will be complicated for you to navigate props with the black background right now if you're new to mapping, although if you've used other editors you'll find you can get round that or just use the 3D view.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm getting used to the editor, but I still catch myself trying to use shortcuts from hammer (I've unconsciously tried to shift-copy walls/props so many times :P). Besides what I mentioned before, the biggest issue I keep running into is not being able to do non-standard NS2 things, like create a map where only one side is available or where you don't have to have a RR/technodes/resnodes, though I don't expect UWE to support things like that before the v1.0 release. More specifically, I'm looking to create novelty maps similar to the ones in Synergy and Zombie Master (if anyone has played those mods). If I have the time, I'll probably poke around in the LUA to see if I can do a simple mod to do what I want.
Also, basic mapping info is very scattered right now. How to create a map, light it, what entities are needed, and NS2 design are more or less available, but its spread between these forums, the wiki, and mapping guidelines pdf. It'd be nice if the guidelines and tutorials were all collected into one place, preferably as a stickied thread or on the wiki.
i. faces instead of brushes
ii. not needing to seal a level off by facework, propwork can do this
As I've said though, pop in #nsmapping. Since I can use it I've used the editor more or less every day or every other day, if there's anything you struggle with and I can help with I'll do so, I've got IRC, streaming capability and voice comms (via mumble) I can connect to and assist you with =]
Also, basic mapping info is very scattered right now. How to create a map, light it, what entities are needed, and NS2 design are more or less available, but its spread between these forums, the wiki, and mapping guidelines pdf. It'd be nice if the guidelines and tutorials were all collected into one place, preferably as a stickied thread or on the wiki.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
just pm koujisan or go irc with thal, or ask your question on the forumz.
If downloading of custom maps on client connect was possible then we would be seeing mappers posting more about their maps and trying to promote for server ops to run them since any clients who want to download and try the map can just connect to the server instead of having to track it down..
In my life I have other committments than the map I'm working on, I do around 40 minutes a day in my lunch time atm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
@Thaldrin Woww. 40 mins a day good working. I like your still :) Mine is someweeks 0 mins a week, someweeks 1 mins a week nowadays :) Just checking black screen and some other bugs if it is fixed or not.
I stoped my map, cuz gameplay mode, performance and other things are important for me. And still many bugs as Thaldrin says, we report those before. I think real maps will not be finished before the game was close to NS2 RTM state.
If downloading of custom maps on client connect was possible then we would be seeing mappers posting more about their maps and trying to promote for server ops to run them since any clients who want to download and try the map can just connect to the server instead of having to track it down..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
I can work around the buggy editor and not feature-complete game, but having no meaningful way to largescale bug/balance test a map is a killer. The most I've seen is 4 people playtesting SN.Wolf's ns2_clandestine, where all we really accomplished was figuring out that you can annotate custom maps.
Ya, but the competitive community isn't likely to truly get started until after the v1.0 release. We're talking about ways to get maps created and tested during the beta.
didn't the devs mention they could make quick changes to a map while playing it? is that option available in the pub build?
didn't the devs mention they could make quick changes to a map while playing it? is that option available in the pub build?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know they can hotswap scripts live. Being able to do the same with maps would be awesome, but I don't think they have the feature.
I did a little test a few builds ago to try and change map elements in real time and the only changes i seen in real time where textures. lights,cinematics, props/scale/movement and geometry required a reload of the level. I'm not sure about the current build though but i would assume this is still the case.
<!--quoteo(post=1841152:date=Apr 16 2011, 04:39 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Apr 16 2011, 04:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1841152"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The editor is a WYSIWYG although I wouldn't go messing with my original map file while it were being played, heh. It says "post-processing" when loading a level for a reason ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->