Power Nodes
Rainseeker
Join Date: 2008-01-29 Member: 63530Members
Join Date: 2008-01-29 Member: 63530Members
Balance Issues with Power Nodes:
1. Perhaps repairing power nodes should cost resources.
2. MACs should probably only be able to have one assigned to repair a power node at a time.
3. Perhaps nodes near the alien side should be pre-broken. Or maybe creep will do this. See #4
4. Creep could cover the power node, forcing marines to have to physically hack it off with a hatchet or flamethrower before a MAC can fix it.
What do you guys think?
1. Perhaps repairing power nodes should cost resources.
2. MACs should probably only be able to have one assigned to repair a power node at a time.
3. Perhaps nodes near the alien side should be pre-broken. Or maybe creep will do this. See #4
4. Creep could cover the power node, forcing marines to have to physically hack it off with a hatchet or flamethrower before a MAC can fix it.
What do you guys think?
Comments
+1
1. Perhaps repairing power nodes should cost resources.
2. MACs should probably only be able to have one assigned to repair a power node at a time.
3. Perhaps nodes near the alien side should be pre-broken. Or maybe creep will do this. See #4
4. Creep could cover the power node, forcing marines to have to physically hack it off with a hatchet or flamethrower before a MAC can fix it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Why should the Marines incur a cost to take a territory when Aliens do not? Territorial control should be equally viable for both races; I don't really see the purpose in this.
2. Again, why? Multiple Aliens can attack the same node, only seems right that more than one is able to repair it.
3 and 4. You should try to understand why you come to these suggestions. Understanding the underlying reasons for suggestions is paramount in making a valid argument for them. Really these seem like efforts to balance territorial control, but the methods seem short-sighted. If you could provide your reasons for these suggestions they can be properly scrutinized.
Powernodes repairing is hardly op. I've never run into a problem on either alien or marine side where being able to repair the powernode quickly ended up helping the marines or hindering the aliens. I think this is a solution in search of a problem.
MAC trains are an issue, and I find them very annoying in a game. Experienced aliens don't attack power nodes often because of this very reason, it's quick to repair with a couple of sneaky MACs.
Name is Kuban, Dark Queen is just a title.
That was an objective criticism of your suggestions, which is what people who come here post their Ideas and Suggestions to receive. No emotion involved. You may be inferring a tone from the connotation of some of the words. I would be glad to provide an explanation of why it is my opinion that these suggestions--which are typically made in hopes of making the game balanced and fun--seem short-sighted, if that was in fact the statement that offended you.
However, I was just asking, "Why?". If we don't know the intention of your suggestion it's very difficult to judge whether it would fulfill it's purpose.
Ok, thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it. Sorry to infer from what you said.
1. Perhaps repairing power nodes should cost resources.
2. MACs should probably only be able to have one assigned to repair a power node at a time.
3. Perhaps nodes near the alien side should be pre-broken. Or maybe creep will do this. See #4
4. Creep could cover the power node, forcing marines to have to physically hack it off with a hatchet or flamethrower before a MAC can fix it.
What do you guys think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1) Should not costr resources but a destroyed node should require a marine to repair not a mac. I cant take out a power node with a drifter so why can I repair with mac?
2) See above - perhaps they can repair one that is damaged but not destroyed.
3) +1 or perhaps all power nodes are at 50% health to begin with.
4) +1 though i think making marines repair destroyed power nodes is more logical...it requires an alien to destroy it should require a marine to repair if we ant to keep it balanced.
<img src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/KuBaN5287/Miscellaneous/PowerNodeDependenceTram.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Not really. It would still be cheaper (and quicker) to repair the powernode in a room than to drop a portable one. The portable powernodes are really only useful for powering structures in rooms without powernodes, such as alien start. However, the only time I see people do this is when they have lots of TRes to spare and want to embarrass the aliens by placing an armory or sentry next to the alien start hive.
It's not quicker if the other team is holding the node and you can't access it, which would be much more likely if Power Nodes are moved to more remote locations between the rooms they control, as suggested. I can see PowerPacks being used more frequently in this scenario, which considering they're only currently used to teabag teams seems like a step forward.
Placing the Nodes in remote locations spreads the area you need to defend thin, and allows the enemy opportunities to sneak in and attack it, which will discourage turtling by keeping the threat of territorial siege ever present. If you're at risk of losing Tram Hub's Power Node (which I moved behind the door) that also powers Repair Room, you're going to see much more effort to keep that Node secured. We might actually have to develop multiple strategies.
Placing the Nodes in remote locations spreads the area you need to defend thin, and allows the enemy opportunities to sneak in and attack it, which will discourage turtling by keeping the threat of territorial siege ever present. If you're at risk of losing Tram Hub's Power Node (which I moved behind the door) that also powers Repair Room, you're going to see much more effort to keep that Node secured. We might actually have to develop multiple strategies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would actually see this encouraging more turtling. I only spend TRes to expand to rooms I am fairly confident I can capture and control, otherwise I'm wasting valuable TRes. If the powernode is far enough away from the other valuable areas of that room (e.g. tech/res nodes) that I'd be spread thin, I just wouldn't capture that room. Essentially, it would turn much of the map into a no-man's land where neither side can gain sufficient control of a room to keep it for any reasonable amount of time.
The only way I could see this working is if TRes was greatly increased or structure cost was greatly reduced. Basically, if I had enough TRes that I could literally drop 50 TRes on an open room to try to secure it for its strategic value without caring about losing that much TRes, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The problem right now is that TRes is much more valuable than the marginal benefit from capturing most rooms.
You wouldn't really have a choice if all of the Power Nodes were just as distant from their dependent resources; that was the whole point. You have to defend both the Resource Rooms (Tech/Res) and the Power Rooms in order to make any sort of gain. There is nowhere to turtle or hide with things set up this way. You'd need to spend twice as many TRes to secure both rooms if you chose to build static defenses in both areas (turtling). You'd be wittingly hindering your progression more than you do currently. I'd sooner assign a squad to patrolling a territory than spend additional resources to adequately bunker up the considerably larger area.
The only other alternative is to give these areas to the opposing team. If that doesn't motivate you to move, you've been crippled by fear, in which case you've earned your loss.
<!--quoteo(post=1840068:date=Apr 6 2011, 04:57 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Apr 6 2011, 04:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1840068"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Essentially, it would turn much of the map into a no-man's land where neither side can gain sufficient control of a room to keep it for any reasonable amount of time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would neither side be able to gain control? Aliens operate independently of the Power Grid. The territories aren't so big (esp. considering Marine Sprint) that it would be impossible to defend, if that's what you're implying.
<!--quoteo(post=1840068:date=Apr 6 2011, 04:57 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Apr 6 2011, 04:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1840068"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The only way I could see this working is if TRes was greatly increased or structure cost was greatly reduced. Basically, if I had enough TRes that I could literally drop 50 TRes on an open room to try to secure it for its strategic value without caring about losing that much TRes, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The problem right now is that TRes is much more valuable than the marginal benefit from capturing most rooms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Enabling Marines to better secure a room by reducing TRes costs further facilitates turtling, which blatantly contradicts your previous statement/concern.
The benefit of capturing a Power Room is increased (because of the introduced Power Room dependence) without marginalizing the importance of Resource Rooms (because Power Nodes are free to repair while Extractors/CCs are not).
Most of your concerns can be addressed with effective teamwork, which will be further facilitated as the game's development progresses.
I've already made the required changes to the map and tested it out. The only issue now is that locations are not named properly (Alien Start extends to Alien Expansion, Marine Start extends to Overlook, Tram Hub extends to Repair Room and the two Tunnels), but everything else remains functional. I'll be looking into getting the map hosted by a decent test server (I've already spoken briefly to the Host of Team #156) once they've fixed the current issues with the Power Grid that arose from the transition from 170 to 171.
Be on the lookout!
When the aliens take out ANY power node, it will send a shock through the entire base, the base then has to recover.
So for a short period of time (about the time for the emergency lights to come on in the destroyed power node room), all rooms in the entire map go down.
This could be strategically interesting because the aliens could get one monster to take out a power node close to the alien base, while others rush in to destroy turrets in the quick power outage.
Obviously there are balance issues introduced here, and a solution to this could be that rooms without any buildings in them don't have an active power node exactly, so that taking out an empty room will only cause a very short(quarter of a second) loss of base power, while taking out a room with 25 structures(probably turrets hehehe) will cause a 10 second outage and even damage other power nodes(by 25% or so) due to the build up of electricity.
That would make power nodes more interesting and rewarding to take out, but might prevent rebuilding of them. So I'd like to introduce another feature. Power nodes can be upgraded(either with res or other resources, or even have to sacrafice a mac) to prevent infestation from entering a room by electrocuting it. This obviously doesnt damage aliens(as that would be unfair), but encourages them to take out power nodes so they can build harvesters.
Ideas done.
<img src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/KuBaN5287/Miscellaneous/PowerNodeDependenceTram.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like everything except the marine start node being outside marine start... someone's gonna have to babysit that one at all times.
I imagine it would be more effective to have someone patrolling around each powered area, but that is exactly the point. The nodes shouldn't be as easily defensible as they are now, where one marine or sentry can provide coverage for a CC, an RT, and a Node.
@Ironsoul: I see this making the assault of power nodes LESS strategic rather than more. If destroying ANY power node damages ALL OTHER power nodes, there's no question of attacking any node you happen by. Also, repairing Nodes then becomes counter-productive, as restoring a node just allows the Aliens the opportunity to damage all other nodes again. I had an idea along the same lines that I think might work, wherein destroying a Power Node would reduce the Armor of structures in the room by some value, and would recover by that value if the power was returned. But still, this solution is restricted by the fact that with the current power node setup, most rooms (other than the starts) typically only contain one structure.
As I said in my original post about this idea, it would only damage other structures if there were a large amount of structures in the room of the destroyed node.
For example, in a real situation, one room could have 4 turrets and 2 extractors(this did happen). Taking that down would power down the base for a longer period of time than taking down an empty room, or a room with only one structure. But with the damaging of structures in other rooms, I suppose that is a bit much, perhaps if it only damages other power nodes(explained by an overload of electricity, just like in real life... we can assume that these structures use a lot of power... oh and don't forget the rule of fun which ignores/bends reality).
Yeah, but there you've only got a Tech Point and no resources. Here's an updated version:
<img src="http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9415/powernodedependencetram.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I was hoping to release the map along with a Mod I'm working on (that ties doors to the Power Grid and offers more tactical play, but at this point I'll probably do it much sooner, to convince the community (and UWE) that Power Nodes can be made into a very compelling gameplay aspect before they scrap it (which they've mentioned).
Also, Rockdown:
<img src="http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2240/powernodedependencerock.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />