Supporting Unknown worlds

k00p4hoangk00p4hoang Join Date: 2011-03-16 Member: 86772Members
edited March 2011 in NS2 General Discussion
How does a small independent game developer get potential investors or funding? I know that DOTA 2 is being picked up by valve and is being worked on by icefrog and his programmers, how can the same be done for Unknown Worlds.
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  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    They stated that they don't want to be taken over and work independently. They are financed trough preorders, that is why some people made multiple preorders. I expect some new special sales, like we had with black armor (perhaps female model? new alien skin? who knows) if they get into financial trouble again.
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  • HughHugh Cameraman San Francisco, CA Join Date: 2010-04-18 Member: 71444NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    You'd probably need a dev response to do this question justice, but I believe they work very hard to attract the attention of 'angel' investors (investors willing to provide venture capital).

    As for what the specific arrangements are, and with whom, I don't think the public will ever know.
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  • fsfodfsfod uk Join Date: 2004-04-09 Member: 27810Members, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    this is like 2 years old <a href="http://www.moddb.com/games/natural-selection-2/features/game-investment-talk" target="_blank">One of Unknown Worlds' own investor gives a talk on Game Investment</a> he only briefly talks about NS 2 near 32 mins
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  • measlesmeasles Join Date: 2007-02-26 Member: 60122Members, Constellation
    I heard they are receiving funing from area_51 =0
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  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I remember one of them posting that their income is a mixture of art of sudoku/decoda sales, some (probably angel) investors and NS2 alpha/beta preorders.
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  • mobettamobetta Join Date: 2010-07-23 Member: 72693Banned
    <!--quoteo(post=1839149:date=Mar 29 2011, 06:56 AM:name=fsfod)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fsfod @ Mar 29 2011, 06:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839149"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this is like 2 years old <a href="http://www.moddb.com/games/natural-selection-2/features/game-investment-talk" target="_blank">One of Unknown Worlds' own investor gives a talk on Game Investment</a> he only briefly talks about NS 2 near 32 mins<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    2009? its not even out yet i wonder how they will pay them back.
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  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2011
    mobetta - just be quiet if you

    a) dont know their exact deals.
    b) dont know how investments work.
    c) you think you are suddently a pro in investments after watching this video. (but you didnt watch it, since you would at least know that angel investors are usually long-term investors => 5-7years)

    UWE had about 500.000$ from angel investors (including family and friends - i guess)
    Looking at the history of UWE, their passions and plans - i dont know why anyone wouldnt want to invest.

    I see at least a potential of 1m sold keys inculding the xbox version that comes later
    Would be around 35.000.000$ (35$ per key) => ~5m for angel investors shouldnt be too hard
    The question is, if marketing + quality will be good enough to get to this numbers in around 1-2years.


    But i dont know ###### about investments either and im not a gipsy that sees into the future. ;P So ignore my blabla.
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    edited March 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1839182:date=Mar 29 2011, 08:15 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Mar 29 2011, 08:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839182"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see at least a potential of 1m sold keys inculding the xbox version that comes later
    Would be around 35.000.000$ (35$ per key) => ~5m for angel investors shouldnt be too hard<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'd love to know how you came to this conclusion.

    Just to add, the beta is advertised as limited to 10,000 users. We're yet to see an influx of "I bought but I can't play!?" or a "Hit 10K mark, beta testers closed". So talking about 1,000,000 users/keys, right now, seems overly optimistic. Nice, but optimistic.
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  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    I think that, rather than 'optimistic', what you actually mean to say is 'unrealistic', or 'absolutely ludicrous'.
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  • steppin'razorsteppin'razor Join Date: 2008-09-18 Member: 65033Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1839181:date=Mar 30 2011, 05:55 AM:name=mobetta)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mobetta @ Mar 30 2011, 05:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839181"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2009? its not even out yet i wonder how they will pay them back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think part of the appeal of angel investors is unlike VC they don't expect immediate returns and can see the big picture.
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  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1839139:date=Mar 29 2011, 09:10 AM:name=k00p4hoang)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (k00p4hoang @ Mar 29 2011, 09:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How does a small independent game developer get potential investors or funding? I know that DOTA 2 is being picked up by valve and is being worked on by icefrog and his programmers, how can the same be done for Unknown Worlds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We aren't interested in being bought by a company like Valve at this point, as its important for us to remain independent and have complete ownership over NS. As far as finding funding from other sources, we did get some initial funding from angel investors, as has been mentioned in this thread, but a greater amount of the money we've been running the company on has come from pre-orders so far.

    Though the game isn't officially released yet we are already having to pay our investors back, since we are getting revenue from NS2 pre-orders.

    --Cory
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  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I think the important thing that Cory hasn't quite mentioned, is that they have FULL control over the direction of the game.

    I imagine investors will want assurances or changes based on large investment, which is why they are Indie and I think that is very special. It shows a lot of passion for what they are doing, and people on here don't factor that when they are watching the development of NS2.

    Venture capitalists as you so put, are probably investors who look around for niche investments that no one else has seen, and are willing to fund it (but leave it alone) based on some sort of risk vs profit basis. I can't imagine we are talking huge amounts, or not in terms of development - but obviously it would help.

    Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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  • Deagle2Deagle2 Join Date: 2010-11-30 Member: 75360Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1839271:date=Mar 30 2011, 05:34 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 30 2011, 05:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We aren't interested in being bought by a company like Valve at this point, as its important for us to remain independent and have complete ownership over NS. As far as finding funding from other sources, we did get some initial funding from angel investors, as has been mentioned in this thread, but a greater amount of the money we've been running the company on has come from pre-orders so far.

    Though the game isn't officially released yet we are already having to pay our investors back, since we are getting revenue from NS2 pre-orders.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Is it possible to buy shares of your company? I'm not realy into that kind of stuff but I'd definetly invest in UWE ! Though not a lot since I'm not wealth :D
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  • InsaneInsane Anomaly Join Date: 2002-05-13 Member: 605Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    UWE isn't publicly traded, so no shares to buy.
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  • Deagle2Deagle2 Join Date: 2010-11-30 Member: 75360Members
    Ok, thanks for answering so fast =)
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  • duxdux Tea Lady Join Date: 2003-12-14 Member: 24371Members, NS2 Developer
    You can always send me all of your monies. I like the monies.
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  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1839228:date=Mar 30 2011, 03:51 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Mar 30 2011, 03:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that, rather than 'optimistic', what you actually mean to say is 'unrealistic', or 'absolutely ludicrous'.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You are right - i shouldnt pretend uwe will have so much luck. 1m would be a "blockbuster". :P

    Its still a multiplayer only game, isnt that well known, not very mainstream - and doesnt have big marketing campaings behind it.
    I guess they will have to sell at least around 130-150k keys to consider ns2 a good success(at least for the investors ;P) - This number seems to be not so unrealistic. (if you dream of an optimized release version that is at least 80% as fun as ns1 was)
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  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    He's in Wales. He's never seen an office in his life, just countryside.. oh and sheep

    :p
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  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2011
    ya i saw that now :/ - i just edited and saw u already picked my fail up... lol - damn ;P
    Any UWE Brian out there that wanna come in contact with me - stealing the onos statue for some monies? - That Dux is useless - no monies for u sir! :P
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  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1839377:date=Mar 31 2011, 12:02 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Mar 31 2011, 12:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1839377"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are right - i shouldnt pretend uwe will have so much luck. 1m would be a "blockbuster". :P

    Its still a multiplayer only game, isnt that well known, not very mainstream - and doesnt have big marketing campaings behind it.
    I guess they will have to sell at least around 130-150k keys to consider ns2 a good success(at least for the investors ;P) - This number seems to be not so unrealistic. (if you dream of an optimized release version that is at least 80% as fun as ns1 was)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think that if they can get 300k (match the peak NS1 player base*), that would be awesome, and maybe not too unrealistic.
    * no citation for this, but I've read it here and there.
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