Flamethrower problem.
Papayas
Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
Join Date: 2010-07-01 Member: 72219Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Not serious at the moment.</div>There is just a little problem with the flamethrower at the moment.
Other than the fact that I think it is OP.
The problem:
As soon as the marines get hold of a flamethrower they can easily destroy the Kharaa base and the game is lost. The Kharaa can't advance anywhere.
In the last game I played I was on the Kharaa side.
Here is what happened:
We were doing very well. I was the commander. We had 3 hives up and running with basic defenses that could kill a squad of at least 3 marines with Rifles and Shotguns. Anyway, our starting position was being bombarded with flamethrowers and people constantly. I tried to build by defenses by spawning Whips and also going gorge and making hydras but it wasn't any use. They just waltzed in and torched the whole place and then we lost the hive because of about 4 marines holding flamethrowers.
Then they started on our 3rd hive (Central) that went in almost 2 seconds. There was about 2 skulks, 2 lerks, and a fade but we going wiped out within a few seconds by about 3 marines with flamethrowers. They easily torched out base and its defensive and destroyed the hive within about 5-10 seconds. While they were doing this I started to make another hive in the other area where we had previously lost; and we got that hive up.
Then they went after our 2nd hive in the East wing? and that got destroyed very quickly. <b>We couldn't do anything against them as they had spammed turrets in the bases (10 to a room</b>) so we were stuck. Then the game went on for about 10 minutes after of us just dying because of their flamethrowers and eventually they decided to waltzed into our last hive and we lost that in about 5 seconds.
Basically, the Kharaa can't do anything against flamethrowers and they do not have the <b>equivalent (Onos?)</b> of the flamethrower. Meaning that <b>we could not take down the sentries.</b>
That is the problem.
Ways of fixing this (IMO):
-Limiting how many flamethrowers the Marines can have at 1 time.
<b>-Introducing the onos (Or removing the flamethrower until you can introduce the Onos)</b>
-Reducing the damage of the flamethrower allowing the Kharaa to actually kill flamers.
Edit: Made it more obvious what I want/why to have in the game. Onos.
Other than the fact that I think it is OP.
The problem:
As soon as the marines get hold of a flamethrower they can easily destroy the Kharaa base and the game is lost. The Kharaa can't advance anywhere.
In the last game I played I was on the Kharaa side.
Here is what happened:
We were doing very well. I was the commander. We had 3 hives up and running with basic defenses that could kill a squad of at least 3 marines with Rifles and Shotguns. Anyway, our starting position was being bombarded with flamethrowers and people constantly. I tried to build by defenses by spawning Whips and also going gorge and making hydras but it wasn't any use. They just waltzed in and torched the whole place and then we lost the hive because of about 4 marines holding flamethrowers.
Then they started on our 3rd hive (Central) that went in almost 2 seconds. There was about 2 skulks, 2 lerks, and a fade but we going wiped out within a few seconds by about 3 marines with flamethrowers. They easily torched out base and its defensive and destroyed the hive within about 5-10 seconds. While they were doing this I started to make another hive in the other area where we had previously lost; and we got that hive up.
Then they went after our 2nd hive in the East wing? and that got destroyed very quickly. <b>We couldn't do anything against them as they had spammed turrets in the bases (10 to a room</b>) so we were stuck. Then the game went on for about 10 minutes after of us just dying because of their flamethrowers and eventually they decided to waltzed into our last hive and we lost that in about 5 seconds.
Basically, the Kharaa can't do anything against flamethrowers and they do not have the <b>equivalent (Onos?)</b> of the flamethrower. Meaning that <b>we could not take down the sentries.</b>
That is the problem.
Ways of fixing this (IMO):
-Limiting how many flamethrowers the Marines can have at 1 time.
<b>-Introducing the onos (Or removing the flamethrower until you can introduce the Onos)</b>
-Reducing the damage of the flamethrower allowing the Kharaa to actually kill flamers.
Edit: Made it more obvious what I want/why to have in the game. Onos.
Comments
I'm not.
This thread is subliminally aimed towards the Onos :D
I made it more obvious what I was talking about.
Yup,
How is the fade supposed to counter flamethrowers when they can't blink when they are on fire?
As soon as fades are on fire they can't retreat because as you said "Slow walking" he can't run away as he will just get killed.
In my opinion they really need to change the Flamethrower.
You can NOT base balance on something like this yet when all the alien units aren't even in the game, or buildings. All that will do is cause constant and pointless changes that constantly fluctuate because the game isn't finished yet and every unit/weapon/ability isn't even in the game yet.
So you nerf it now, they release something new, it's to weak now, so buff it again.. but oh wait another new release, time to nerf it again! it's just pointless, why not just wait so all of the games balance can be properly judged.
Now something like marine vs skulk can be discussed because as far as start game goes, everything is in, and I don't see MUCH changing, it will be lmg/pistols vs ungraded skulks so yes, let's work on something like that, that won't be changed do to later patches.
Also taking out the flamethrower is counter productive, they need to test it was well, especially with DI being recently added in. So I am sure you can handle losing a few games (does it honestly matter it's BETA FOR TESTING) for the sake of them moving forward and creating a better game, not wasting time constantly tweaking numbers that will have to be re-tweaked a month later because of a new feature, all because a few players can't handle losing for a few weeks. If the final stages of the beta are almost at an end, and the flamethrower is over powered and dominating then yes of course by all means nerf it and fix it but at this point, so many more important things need to be done, instead of them wasting time to tweak every number for every player that complains about something.
How is the fade supposed to counter flamethrowers when they can't blink when they are on fire?
As soon as fades are on fire they can't retreat because as you said "Slow walking" he can't run away as he will just get killed.
In my opinion they really need to change the Flamethrower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
frankly aside from even flamethrower draining fades energy, blink itself is total trash.
1. can't catch moving targets
2.get get into vents
3.double clicking to blink
4.poor aiming target
5.each time you blink you're blinded for split of second
what am I forgetting here oh that's right you have to this in COMBAT. can you say SLOW! blink offers nothing but special effects, if you look past "hey this looks amazing" and realize during combat everything i've listed makes fade so slow is beyond. compared to ns1 fade, current fade is damn turtle.
its gimped aliens like these what holds back aliens from being strong classes. just because the idea to teleport from point A and B sounds great on paper, in reality it does not translate well into live game play. If the idea can be changed where blink can be what it was in ns1, and have special effects, i would welcome it but if you cannot do this I rather enjoy my ns1 blink over this any day.
This is why I think they should temporarily remove it so the game is not unbalanced and the Kharaa can actually have a chance than it being unfair. Then they can nerf it when the equivalent (Onos) is out.
<!--quoteo(post=1834014:date=Feb 20 2011, 11:44 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Feb 20 2011, 11:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1834014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->frankly aside from even flamethrower draining fades energy, blink itself is total trash.
1. can't catch moving targets
2.get get into vents
3.double clicking to blink
4.poor aiming target
5.each time you blink you're blinded for split of second<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest I don't think that the fade blink is that bad. They just need to change a few things (I have mentioned this on other threads).
I can use it quite well in combat. I managed to kill 3 marines in a group of 4 before I got to half health and I decided to retreat (A skulk picked off the other guy on his own)
Yeah, the fade blink will probably be quite good later on with the rest of the upgrades/skills. Maybe with some tweaks.
For now, since it's only been out for so long, it feels quite disorienting to use. But that's another skill to master, and I'm quite sure there will turn out to be some quite terribly good fade blinkers who memorize the map layouts and will absolutely decimate things.
For now, since it's only been out for so long, it feels quite disorienting to use. But that's another skill to master, and I'm quite sure there will turn out to be some quite terribly good fade blinkers who memorize the map layouts and will absolutely decimate things.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. Maybe the Fade gets some fireproof carapace... so a FT-marine needs some shotgun-guy for protection.
Besides, If you don't want the black-nightcrawler-teleport-cloud to block your sight just use the alien nightsight (but remember the downside is that you can't see the fire of the flamethrower)
At the momend, the fade is only strong if it has back up.
- A skulk for killing marines while they try to kill the fade
- A lerk gassing marines or snipe 'em while they try to kill the fade
- A onos (if implemented) because every marine will open fire at the onos while the fade can pick out the marines one by one.
# Increase Cost (50+)
# Increase Power
# Increase Range
# Nerf Aim Speed When Firing (To the point of aim before you fire)
# Nerf Walk Speed When Firing
# Damages Self When Fired Close By
# No Jumping When Firing
What does this do?
# Creates effective anti-structure options every tier (varying from covert attacks - sneaking a flame guy into a hive - to overt attacks - very loud ARC/EXO late game)
# Cost means not everyone can have one / could be bought by commander - requires someone to save.
# Positive/Negative feel makes it a very powerful against structures but useless (tactically) against aliens
You could also then drop shotty effectiveness against structures (it is far too good all round) and work as a tactical flamer team (he would need back up).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was said on another thread.
I think nearly all of these points are very good and will make the flamethrower fine.
Some of them I dissagree with, like the increase range, and the increase damage. The range is ridiculously high at the moment (And looks stupid from above) and so is the damage.
tl;dr: Flamethrower is ###### and shouldn't even be in the game.
Also if you want to win as Alien drop 2nd hive right at start along with 2nd res then immediately tech fades. Get out of hive, go attack their main, die, get back in commander research canal on RTs. Get fades like 3 min into game and rush their main and end. GGs all day you can pretty much solo win. If you let it get lategame you are kinda ###### if marines are coordinated. Nothing beats a convoy of shotguns+flamers+comm HP/Ammo spam.