Fixing the Fade's secondary.
BarerRudeROC
Join Date: 2010-10-01 Member: 74264Members
Join Date: 2010-10-01 Member: 74264Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A solution</div>Here are the pros, cons, and my own solution to said problem.
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><u>Pros</u></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
The fades secondary is put in place for quick, stealthy, recon moves against well armed Marines,
it provides the fade with a means to instantly remove a threat through well placed ambush techniques.
Thus far,
the fade can hide around specific corners and ambush a marine (assuming Skulks use their Parasite ability effectively),
and take down welding MACS with ease.
Giving a well earned insta-kill.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u><b>Cons</b></u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
The simple fact is,
The Fade's secondary is useless.
The normal swipe delivers more DP/S and is a better killing machine.
(I mean, shouldn't 2 large downward swipes do more damage to a power-node than a simple swipe?)
What should be a power move is being replaced with a faster primary which is doing more damage than it should be.
Not only this but the secondary is being used to camp IPs and grief the Marine team.
Something that can't be allowed in such a game.
Most of us can attest to neglecting the Fade's secondary,
so I have pulled together a solution to which we can better both atmospheric affect and player experience.
<b><u><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Solution<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b>
As of the following patch,
Prototype Dynamic Infestation will be implemented to Natural Selection 2.
Dynamic Infestation is put in place to assert dominance of Alien territory (which must be defended).
As we know,
the Fade is of the Kharaa serving as a base Soldier,
with the ability to adapt to every situation possible,
be it attack or defend.
However,
in the average NS2 game the Fade is primarily a aggro unit (due to the constant use of the primary),
leaving no ability for defence (like the secondary)
who finds it hard give a good ambush attack.
My proposal is this.
in tandem with Dynamic Infestation,
the Fade should have the ability to merge with the wall of DI,
camouflaging itself in wait of Marines encroaching on territory that must be defended,
In the process, Marines who walk by said Fade can be taken out instantaneously with its secondary attack.
Not only does this fill in the fades defensive role,
it also allows proper usage of its secondary.
This would also create a stronger tenebrous atmosphere of fear upon entering a Alien antechamber,
and encourage constant communication and teamwork with the Marine team.
A game which implemented said Idea was Aliens Versus Predator (3),
If you take the time to click this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoQJImOEBLg" target="_blank">link and skip to 0:30</a>.
You can see how it could be achieved.
<b><u><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#ADD8E6--><span style="color:#ADD8E6"><!--/coloro-->My final thought<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b>
I see a few threads complaining about a lack of atmosphere, depth and sadly level design,
hopefully this would quell such threads and eliminate the constant resonance of them.
I hope the idea could be implemented as it would do great justice to the Fade's role and player experience,
which is a very important factor, as it's the little things which make a good game a good game.
<b>
Thank you for taking the time to read my idea.
I would love to hear the communities opinions of it in the comments below.</b>
<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><u>Pros</u></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
The fades secondary is put in place for quick, stealthy, recon moves against well armed Marines,
it provides the fade with a means to instantly remove a threat through well placed ambush techniques.
Thus far,
the fade can hide around specific corners and ambush a marine (assuming Skulks use their Parasite ability effectively),
and take down welding MACS with ease.
Giving a well earned insta-kill.
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><u><b>Cons</b></u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
The simple fact is,
The Fade's secondary is useless.
The normal swipe delivers more DP/S and is a better killing machine.
(I mean, shouldn't 2 large downward swipes do more damage to a power-node than a simple swipe?)
What should be a power move is being replaced with a faster primary which is doing more damage than it should be.
Not only this but the secondary is being used to camp IPs and grief the Marine team.
Something that can't be allowed in such a game.
Most of us can attest to neglecting the Fade's secondary,
so I have pulled together a solution to which we can better both atmospheric affect and player experience.
<b><u><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Solution<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b>
As of the following patch,
Prototype Dynamic Infestation will be implemented to Natural Selection 2.
Dynamic Infestation is put in place to assert dominance of Alien territory (which must be defended).
As we know,
the Fade is of the Kharaa serving as a base Soldier,
with the ability to adapt to every situation possible,
be it attack or defend.
However,
in the average NS2 game the Fade is primarily a aggro unit (due to the constant use of the primary),
leaving no ability for defence (like the secondary)
who finds it hard give a good ambush attack.
My proposal is this.
in tandem with Dynamic Infestation,
the Fade should have the ability to merge with the wall of DI,
camouflaging itself in wait of Marines encroaching on territory that must be defended,
In the process, Marines who walk by said Fade can be taken out instantaneously with its secondary attack.
Not only does this fill in the fades defensive role,
it also allows proper usage of its secondary.
This would also create a stronger tenebrous atmosphere of fear upon entering a Alien antechamber,
and encourage constant communication and teamwork with the Marine team.
A game which implemented said Idea was Aliens Versus Predator (3),
If you take the time to click this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoQJImOEBLg" target="_blank">link and skip to 0:30</a>.
You can see how it could be achieved.
<b><u><!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#ADD8E6--><span style="color:#ADD8E6"><!--/coloro-->My final thought<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u></b>
I see a few threads complaining about a lack of atmosphere, depth and sadly level design,
hopefully this would quell such threads and eliminate the constant resonance of them.
I hope the idea could be implemented as it would do great justice to the Fade's role and player experience,
which is a very important factor, as it's the little things which make a good game a good game.
<b>
Thank you for taking the time to read my idea.
I would love to hear the communities opinions of it in the comments below.</b>
Comments
And besides that, NS2 isnt really a game were you use ambush tactics a lot... maybe if there are only a few ppl on the server(~6), and you know some lone marine is coming around a corner, and it happens to be in an area with DI....
Very very situational - and not really an improvement from the current 2nd ability.
current secondary attack is backward focus attack from ns1.
make the attack strike fast but have delay between each attack.
this means fade would be able to quickly hit someone but he cannot spam it.
That is how focus attack worked in ns1.
right now, you have an ugly slow-motion attack that can be spammed if the marine completely stands still.
this attack only works in the video of fade reveal, because it was all done in dramatic movie effect to make fade look good.
So in the idea was great on paper, but it doesn't translate into live game play at all.
aside from this problem, current blink needs either huge makeover, or something else like ns1 blink added into current fade abilities.
this secondary blink would be renamed, not to be confused with primary blink. The idea is to bring back ns1 blink so fades finally able
to catch moving targets, get into vents and stop chasing marines on foot like lower prime-mates. sprinting marine can out run fades, or run circles around the fade, pretty game breaking.
Once again, current blink adds nothing to the fade another then special effects, it looks great in video, movie and just watching it but not playing it.
Some ideas simply do not translate well into game play at all, and sometimes more practical/simple idea would be far better.
:( - another chamber active thats only really usefull in defense situations (since you usually cant keep them alive in "close to marine" areas + radius is very limited*)
*since they go trough walls - like ft flames.
I faught a Fade once and it just stabbed me everytime it saw me. I tried to circcle around the fade but I could just land ztwo blows with the shotgun.. after that I was stabbed again.
The attack works but you have to give it a try in an actually game
on the other hand...
Like luns said, the Fade needs a sprint abbility.
What about this Idea:
The fade can swich from "sprint blink" to "teleport blink" while the attack stays the same if he changes weapons.
Stab really needs to have either a shorter delay, or, perform a short ranged charge attack (the current range of 3 isn't enough).
Of course grabbing and releasing would take a little bit to prevent spamming, but wouldn't it be cool if you were a marine and all of a sudden your buddy started yelling and you turn around and a fade has him all strangled up hostage style with its claws?
You could then shoot the fade in the face because you've got backup or run away because there are other aliens coming.
Maybe taking damage would interrupt the fade grab too.
From the other perspective, imagine sneaking up behind a group of marines, blinking to the one in the back and quietly snagging him into the darkness with your awesome ninja death power. By the time they realize he's gone-- he's GONE.
I know many people dislike this kind of attack (like the hunter punce in l4d), and iirc the devs dont want them, but I do not really imagine it as a long term attack, but I got this little idea:
The reason I like the grab part about the attack, is because right now the problem with attack 2, is that it slows down fade while having a 1 sec delay. Almost only works on afk marines.
So my idea is that when you use the attack, it is instead of a slow downwards swipe, a sort of grab, which would look something like the fade laying its left blade around the neck of rine (or throat if used from behind), then the right blade is thrusted into the marines body, impaling him (alot like in the fade teaser).
So it would slow down the fade, but also make sure a hit still is a hit. The rine would not really be stuck for long (around 1 second maybe?), and dies by being impaled. This would therefor be good if you blink to a sprinting marine use it, as then he cant flee anymore, while if used against a group of rines, they will have about 1 second to aim and fire at you before you can even accerelate again (maybe also make it drain so much adrenaline that you cant blink away instantly?).
Since a marine with full light armour upgrades can take more than a single stab from a Fade, and Heavy armour marines are going to be very durable, such an ability would be needed to keep Fades useful in late game.
My only question is what do they have planned already?
If theres going to be onos stomp, webbing or other attacks which stun the marine it could be overkill. Hard to comment when we don't know what's in stall.
IMO 2nd attack needs some reworking. At the moment if you blink in and use 2nd attack it's either hit or die to shotgun.
My idea was to replace a lack of the antiquated atmosphere in NS.
We call remember the Source days,
Where once a fade could enter a room at lightning speed, get a kill, and disappear.
But as of today's more realistic approach
it is a lot harder to achieve due to the constant grounding of the fade and thus spamming of swipes.
Those of us who played the original NS know the fear one experiences while wandering through silent corridors,
be it alone or in a squad.
This is what I find lacking and thus,
this is why I put forward the idea of camouflage and ambush attacks.
Imagine moving through a corridor,
Amorphous, gelatinous Kharaa infestation everywhere,
You move against the wall, keeping a close eye for movement,
the walls convulse,
and your close companion is savagely stabbed by the scythe like arms of a fade,
before you have the time to react it has either fled/turned its attention to you.
Of course grabbing and releasing would take a little bit to prevent spamming, but wouldn't it be cool if you were a marine and all of a sudden your buddy started yelling and you turn around and a fade has him all strangled up hostage style with its claws?
You could then shoot the fade in the face because you've got backup or run away because there are other aliens coming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea a lot.
I'd make it so it immobilizes both the marine and fade, does continuous damage to the marine, but allows the marine to turn (much slower than normal) to face and attack the fade. Also, make it so the fade can break the attack at any time.
currently it is very slow, and that shouldn't be the case for a fast melee attacker.
so, as alternative I would suggest that the secondary attacks instantly and fast as the primary, however, it would take atleast 2-5 seconds to cool down again, in which you can't swipe at all, but still move and blink, making it viable as hit'n'run attack and taking out lone marines, and balancing it by the inability of the fade to quickly get another swipe in if it failed, thus making it a high risk attack when facing groups.
personally I would like to see the energy cost of the blink depend on the distance traveled, so that you could, given skill, quickly correct your position or follow a marine that sprints away without wasting your energy on a short blink.
Well here's yer problem!
make the fade move faster when performing his secondary, only way to do it.
a instant hit focus attack would be too imbalanced, pro fade users could annihilate squdas with a "hit and run" sissy style of play which cannot be countered unless flamers and shotguns are in.
Also the delay that it takes to perform the fades attack is unrealistic, thats why its nearly impossible to land.
So to sum up what i think:
half the time it takes to peform that secondary attack
make the fade move 25% faster than the current slow effect when hes doing it.
*Writes on slip of paper*
A strike attack that is basically double the power of the initial attack but does the same damage over time just feels really boring and nonsensical.
Skulk attacks are great, Lerk feels great, Gorge is being worked on and Onos will be exciting because... it is an Onos. I think the secondary attack should be something more interesting.
2. Spinning Fade blade AOE attack, hits all targets within swing radius for (3) or so hits within (2) seconds but cannot move while using it. (reduced damage obv trade off for hitting multiple close quartered targets, high risk, moderate energy cost)
3.A void charge:; You charge (15 yards?) in the direction you are currently facing (your only voided out and take reduced damage while charging -75%) that damages the (first target) or (all targets?) The fade moves through. The charge doesn't last long you cover ground very very quickly
-Trade offs; high energy cost, charge is a much shorter distance than you could blink, skill is in using it and not dying because the energy cost is so high that escape with blink will not be available immediately after use.. 1-3 seconds being somewhat exposed
4. Poisoned fade blades; very very little damage, reduces accuracy/reload time of marines. undeveloped idea...needs more thought.
Why can't there be 3-5 ability slots. Or even with 3.. have 1 or 2 of them be decided by evolve upgrades, not all fades are the same! :P
2. Spinning Fade blade AOE attack, hits all targets within swing radius for (3) or so hits within (2) seconds but cannot move while using it. (reduced damage obv trade off for hitting multiple close quartered targets, high risk, moderate energy cost)
3.A void charge:; You charge (15 yards?) in the direction you are currently facing (your only voided out and take reduced damage while charging -75%) that damages the (first target) or (all targets?) The fade moves through. The charge doesn't last long you cover ground very very quickly
-Trade offs; high energy cost, charge is a much shorter distance than you could blink, skill is in using it and not dying because the energy cost is so high that escape with blink will not be available immediately after use.. 1-3 seconds being somewhat exposed
4. Poisoned fade blades; very very little damage, reduces accuracy/reload time of marines. undeveloped idea...needs more thought.
Why can't there be 3-5 ability slots. Or even with 3.. have 1 or 2 of them be decided by evolve upgrades, not all fades are the same! :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG the ideas are all great!
I think I prefer the 3rd idea because you can catch and do damage to a marine on the run.
As well the fade is less vulnerable to shotguns <i>(going fade atm is pretty useless because every marine has shotgun after 3 minutes in game and is able to kill you without any efford)</i>, but a flamethrower will quickly drain its energy leaving it vulnerable to shotgunfire.
In conclusion:
+1 ^_^
Heheh. This gives me an idea. Fade secondary could be an "attack" where you blink up to a marine, you snare the marine and blink away WITH THE MARINE. So you could effectively take out a group of marines one by one, especially if you had a couple of friends waiting at the 'feeding spot'.