<!--quoteo(post=1827920:date=Jan 27 2011, 07:14 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jan 27 2011, 07:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1827920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They could also add "gold" double income res nodes near the middle of the map, to create more action in the middle of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, those numbers you see are points you gained from doing something. The only way you currently gain resources, both personal and team, is via res nodes.
I say if you have no more nodes, you lose. However, I liked how in NS1 you start with a res node in your start so unless the other team is totally killing you you should have at least 1 node. And once you have no nodes, gg.
Quovatis' problem of placing structures too close to a node and blocking the node is more of a bug in the design. Buildings shouldn't be allowed to block a res node from being capped. File reports.
Dbl res or variable res nodes would be pretty sweet. However, you need clear ways to distinguish which are the high-yield versus low-yield nodes and do NOT involve clicking on the node.
slayer20Killed a man once.Join Date: 2007-12-13Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1827920:date=Jan 27 2011, 06:14 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jan 27 2011, 06:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1827920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They could also add "gold" double income res nodes near the middle of the map, to create more action in the middle of the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it would be pretty neat to have a random "gold" RT. It would replace any of the nodes in the map, besides the Marine and Alien starting points. I would say there could be like a 30% chance of a Golden Node to appear within the map, so that means that it might not even appear at all!
I think this would give more depth to the strategic side of NS2. Finding the Gold Node, being able to protect it, knowing how to defend which room it's in...
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1827910:date=Jan 27 2011, 02:57 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Jan 27 2011, 02:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1827910"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe the problem is caused by the game's slow carbon harvest rate.
In most RTS games, worker units are cheap, and a team (or player) can gather resources as long as he has one worker and one base. Should a resource gathering base fall under attack, the team can usually preserve some of their workers by fleeing.
In NS2 however, it takes an Extractor/Harvester 3 minutes to pay for itself. Marines can recycle Extractors. But currently, it is rarely done, as commanders tend to be over optimistic. Aliens, on the other hand, need a new (unique) method to recuperate some of the cost of the Harvester before it is destroyed.
I would also suggest that building HP be scaled according to team size. They fall much too quickly in larger games, and carbon can becomes very scarce.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another feature of RTS's is that they have high res rates but high building costs. I'd like to see something similar occur in NS2. For example, each res node gives 5 res/sec but also increase structure costs to something like Extractors/Harvester = 25 res CS/Hive = 200 res IP = 100 res Crag/Armory = 50 res Whip/Sentry = 25 res MAC/Drifter = 10 res
I'd also combine this with a hard limit for MAC/Drifters, whips/sentries/hydras, and structures overall so spam is kept to a minimum.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1827967:date=Jan 28 2011, 01:56 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jan 28 2011, 01:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1827967"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another feature of RTS's is that they have high res rates but high building costs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. The current resource tick rate feels very sluggish. Watching carbon trickle is like watching a tap drip. Re-scaling sources to 0.5 or 1 unit/second per res node would make monitoring res flow much easier.
<!--quoteo(post=1827967:date=Jan 28 2011, 02:56 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jan 28 2011, 02:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1827967"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Another feature of RTS's is that they have high res rates but high building costs. I'd like to see something similar occur in NS2. For example, each res node gives 5 res/sec but also increase structure costs to something like Extractors/Harvester = 25 res CS/Hive = 200 res IP = 100 res Crag/Armory = 50 res Whip/Sentry = 25 res MAC/Drifter = 10 res
I'd also combine this with a hard limit for MAC/Drifters, whips/sentries/hydras, and structures overall so spam is kept to a minimum.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A sentry every five seconds sounds retarded, although I appreciate you are obivously throwing out examples here rather than thought through suggestions. I think the current resource rates are fine, except I would argue the sentry is a little too expensive (should definitely cost carbon though).
The aliens do need an equilavent option to recycle though, so they can recover from a lack of resources.
No more RTs and less than 15 carbon should definitely not be a game ender though. Aliens can still fight on and take out IPs or nodes, and I have in fact seen aliens win when resource locked.
slayer20Killed a man once.Join Date: 2007-12-13Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1827940:date=Jan 27 2011, 08:08 PM:name=slayer20)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (slayer20 @ Jan 27 2011, 08:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1827940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it would be pretty neat to have a random "gold" RT. It would replace any of the nodes in the map, besides the Marine and Alien starting points. I would say there could be like a 30% chance of a Golden Node to appear within the map, so that means that it might not even appear at all!
I think this would give more depth to the strategic side of NS2. Finding the Gold Node, being able to protect it, knowing how to defend which room it's in...
Number of things could be had from a Gold Node.
+1 to that idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adding to this, it would be kind of neat to have "Gold" Tech Points as well. Certain structures could cost like 5% less than what they normally do. Of course, these would have to be rarer than Gold Nodes.
I'm for plasma-for-kill; with a lower plasma rate and non-upgradable plasma rate; and with a reasonable plasma cap. Team res should be unrelated to kills and deaths. I don't mind if it doesn't make it in, because I acknowledge the 'star player' issue. I personally don't think it has that great an effect, especially if you allow lower tier weapons to not be obsolete at late-game, which should be the goal.
Also, yeah the +4, +5 thing when you kill someone adds Score, it doesn't add Plasma.
Hive/CC generating team res at the same rate of a res tower is an interesting idea. So you effectively also have one res point for every tech point. Again, interesting idea, don't care if it makes it in or not.
Also, <b>the way extractors/harvesters work in the game is</b>: 4 seconds after THIS tower has finished construction, you get 1 resource from THIS tower; then 12 seconds later, you get 1 resource from THIS tower; etc. THIS tower's resource timing is unrelated to THAT tower's timing.
So what this means is, if you built 3 towers with a space apart of 0.1 seconds, you'd get 1,2,3 resources quickly, then wait about another 11.7 seconds for the next 1,2,3 resources.
This is, imo, a problem, as it is completely unintuitive and clumsy. I imagine it's also more processor-intensive than it really should be, as each RT operates completely separately. The time instead should be unified; and you should have a <b>constant</b> resource tick rate, based on how many towers you have <b>operating</b> (you could still have that 4 second delay, just have towers in two states: operating and not operating).
I'm a fan of high res rates, and high building costs, combined with the constant tick rate. However, you could keep the values as is, and also have fractional res instead (displayed as decimals). So for example, if the server updates resources every second: Res per second = Number of operating towers * 1/12 New res = Current res + Res per second = e.g. 5/12 + 1/12
Extractors operate individually? I agree that should change to a "extractor pool" (just set a number on each team of their extractor count). Then adding/removing/whatever extractors would only mean changing a number in the team.
Only problem would be if they want to add a speed boost upgrade for individuall extractors (especially temporary upgrades).
That's just a matter of setting it in different states.
For example, if you had a <b>vector full of variables</b>: <i>"Number of towers" (in each 'state')</i> [Currently constructing, Not operating, Operating, Upgraded(1), Upgraded(2), Upgraded(3), ...]
Then you could have another <b>vector full of constants</b>: <i>"Resource per tower" (for each 'state')</i> [0, 0, ResPerSecond normal, ResPerSecond upgraded(1), ResPerSecond upgraded(2), ResPerSecond upgraded(3), ...]
Take the <b>dot product</b> of the two vectors*, that gives your total res per second.
*Total res per second = (0 * Currently constructing) + (0 * Not Operating) + (ResPerSecond normal * Operating) + (ResPerSecond upgraded(1) * Upgraded(1)) + ...
e.g. Total res per second = 0*1 + 0*0 + (1/12)*5 + (2/12)*1 + ...
Still would not work at individuall speed upgrades, as all that using dot like that can do is calculate how much res you would have gotten in one second with the new speed, and not actually give res in the new speed.
<!--quoteo(post=1828125:date=Jan 28 2011, 11:43 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 28 2011, 11:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still would not work at individuall speed upgrades<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why would you want individual speed upgrades? <!--quoteo(post=1828125:date=Jan 28 2011, 11:43 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 28 2011, 11:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as all that using dot like that can do is calculate how much res you would have gotten in one second with the new speed, and not actually give res in the new speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh...? Obviously it's just, once every second, do this: New res = Previous res + Total res per second
Double res room is just another state you could add.
<!--quoteo(post=1828121:date=Jan 28 2011, 11:38 AM:name=Spritz2k11)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Spritz2k11 @ Jan 28 2011, 11:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828121"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do I see a role for the Gorge here?
Maybe gorges should be able to recycle buildings and/or harvest carbon without a RT.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1827768:date=Jan 27 2011, 02:36 PM:name=Revenge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Revenge @ Jan 27 2011, 02:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1827768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I seriously am not a fan of marines receiving res-for-kills. Skulks shouldn't be punished for suicide rushing!! :P
Also, if you've lost your last RT, chances are you're outgunned, and res-for-kills is going to help your enemy more than it will help you.
I feel a better solution would be to have command consoles/hives producing a small amount of resources, independent of what any towers may produce.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I've been having rather a lot of difficulty keeping res towers alive, there isn't really much stopping players from running through blowing them up, and replacing them is a tedious and expensive practice.
RTs need to be a lot tougher, and should preferably have some sort of defence.
I'm pretty sure that the RTs all have individual tick rates because they can be upgraded.
I do think the alien side needs some sort of recycle type ability to regain team res. Maybe this could be part of the DI implementation. Something like 're-absorb' that only allows alien comms to do a recycle of structures in DI areas. Or maybe DI could allow for team res to be generated from structure/players kills on DI (maybe as a comm-triggered ability for balance).
Can a marine comm recycle un-powered structures (after a power node is destroyed)? I think this should not be an option. Once the power goes out, the comm no longer should have the chance to recycle.
Randomly generated gold locations is a BAD IDEA. It can really mess with the balance of the map.
NS1 managed the tick rates just fine. You just had to keep in mind how much each res was worth, i.e. a lot. However, in NS1 we had RFK which helped mask the jumps in res production.
I don't think the underlying issue is the jumpy res rates due to individual ticks. SC, DoW, and many other RTS games use the exact same mechanism. The only difference is that in worker-based economies once you have enough workers it smooths out into a stream of resources. Contrast to SupComm where capping nodes would give a steady stream of resources every second. DoW and CoH I believe handle it with steady-stream tick rates as well.
And it's not a matter of scale. Players automatically scale values in their heads just fine.
Swapping to Harimau's state array would be a clean way to normalize the production.
<!--quoteo(post=1828164:date=Jan 28 2011, 07:01 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 28 2011, 07:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828164"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->RTs need to be a lot tougher, <b>and should preferably have some sort of defence</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And if those players are on the other side of the map? Even if you send the waypoint immediately, and they begin to move immediately, the RT will go down first.
<!--quoteo(post=1828199:date=Jan 29 2011, 05:18 AM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Jan 29 2011, 05:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828199"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure that the RTs all have individual tick rates because they can be upgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've accounted for that with the vectors. (I suggested vectors because you can then use the dot product function which I imagine would be very quick and simple to use.) But individual tick rates on the other hand are messy, non-standard and un-intuitive, given the 'capped point' implementation.
Given that you have two resources, Personal and Team; and in the current implementation Personal can be upgraded and Team can't, it's just a matter of creating two constant state-vectors.
Number of towers in each state: [Currently constructing, Not operating, Operating, Upgraded(1), Upgraded(2), Upgraded(3), ...]
In the code, plasma and carbon are added separately anyway (though this is rather obvious), so nothing has changed in that sense; it's simply a matter of finding the dot product of the variable vector with each constant vector, and then adding the number to each resource appropriately.
<!--quoteo(post=1828285:date=Jan 29 2011, 01:36 AM:name=Skiddywinks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skiddywinks @ Jan 29 2011, 01:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They are called "players".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If my players are busy elsewhere they usually can't respond fast enough to save the ref, even if they are inclined to try.
It makes no sense to ruin the game because players don't want to break off having fun to go protect a ref somewhere on the other side of the map, that's the job of automated defences.
<!--quoteo(post=1828366:date=Jan 29 2011, 08:11 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 29 2011, 08:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If my players are busy elsewhere they usually can't respond fast enough to save the ref, even if they are inclined to try.
It makes no sense to ruin the game because players don't want to break off having fun to go protect a ref somewhere on the other side of the map, that's the job of automated defences.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes. and it goes for both teams, so it's balanced
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do think the alien side needs some sort of recycle type ability to regain team res. Maybe this could be part of the DI implementation. Something like 're-absorb' that only allows alien comms to do a recycle of structures in DI areas. (...) Can a marine comm recycle un-powered structures (after a power node is destroyed)? I think this should not be an option. Once the power goes out, the comm no longer should have the chance to recycle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1828442:date=Jan 29 2011, 04:05 PM:name=Shilorius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shilorius @ Jan 29 2011, 04:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828442"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes. and it goes for both teams, so it's balanced<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say it wasn't, I said it was annoying, and it is, for both teams.
Hence why I want it changed, for both teams, so that it stays balanced but stops being annoying.
I'd like the idea of gorge being able to actively help with team economy. For example, have gorges be able to harvest res from uncapped nodes and then transfer this res to the team at Hive's but could also gain res. Of course this would be hell to balance but would add yet more asymmetry.
It would be a trade of for alien to have an economy boost and the cost of having less fighter lifeforms.
Risk's involved could include: - loss of mobility when harvesting - loss of speed when carrying res - Marines get a a good payoff if the kill a gorge with res.
Benefits: - Gorge more useful for team economy - Gorge more useful - Would allow Early gorges to earn point for building their action (which would then have to become more expensive to use).
More brainstorming around the idea of linking gorge stamina to all this, say that's res and the gorge can only replenish at non-marine nodes (so uncapped or alien owned)
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1828799:date=Feb 1 2011, 12:29 AM:name=NurEinMensch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NurEinMensch @ Feb 1 2011, 12:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If people think defending their RTs isn't fun, maybe they've picked the wrong game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. Defending RT usually involves combat, isn't that what this game is about?
On the other hand, sometimes there is too little action for defenders, when the enemy team completely ignores a position. IMO there should be more tasks (or mini-games, if you will) for base/RT defending soldiers.
Comments
<3
I say if you have no more nodes, you lose. However, I liked how in NS1 you start with a res node in your start so unless the other team is totally killing you you should have at least 1 node. And once you have no nodes, gg.
Quovatis' problem of placing structures too close to a node and blocking the node is more of a bug in the design. Buildings shouldn't be allowed to block a res node from being capped. File reports.
Dbl res or variable res nodes would be pretty sweet. However, you need clear ways to distinguish which are the high-yield versus low-yield nodes and do NOT involve clicking on the node.
I think it would be pretty neat to have a random "gold" RT. It would replace any of the nodes in the map, besides the Marine and Alien starting points. I would say there could be like a 30% chance of a Golden Node to appear within the map, so that means that it might not even appear at all!
I think this would give more depth to the strategic side of NS2. Finding the Gold Node, being able to protect it, knowing how to defend which room it's in...
Number of things could be had from a Gold Node.
+1 to that idea.
In most RTS games, worker units are cheap, and a team (or player) can gather resources as long as he has one worker and one base. Should a resource gathering base fall under attack, the team can usually preserve some of their workers by fleeing.
In NS2 however, it takes an Extractor/Harvester 3 minutes to pay for itself. Marines can recycle Extractors. But currently, it is rarely done, as commanders tend to be over optimistic. Aliens, on the other hand, need a new (unique) method to recuperate some of the cost of the Harvester before it is destroyed.
I would also suggest that building HP be scaled according to team size. They fall much too quickly in larger games, and carbon can becomes very scarce.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another feature of RTS's is that they have high res rates but high building costs. I'd like to see something similar occur in NS2. For example, each res node gives 5 res/sec but also increase structure costs to something like
Extractors/Harvester = 25 res
CS/Hive = 200 res
IP = 100 res
Crag/Armory = 50 res
Whip/Sentry = 25 res
MAC/Drifter = 10 res
I'd also combine this with a hard limit for MAC/Drifters, whips/sentries/hydras, and structures overall so spam is kept to a minimum.
Agreed. The current resource tick rate feels very sluggish. Watching carbon trickle is like watching a tap drip. Re-scaling sources to 0.5 or 1 unit/second per res node would make monitoring res flow much easier.
Extractors/Harvester = 25 res
CS/Hive = 200 res
IP = 100 res
Crag/Armory = 50 res
Whip/Sentry = 25 res
MAC/Drifter = 10 res
I'd also combine this with a hard limit for MAC/Drifters, whips/sentries/hydras, and structures overall so spam is kept to a minimum.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A sentry every five seconds sounds retarded, although I appreciate you are obivously throwing out examples here rather than thought through suggestions. I think the current resource rates are fine, except I would argue the sentry is a little too expensive (should definitely cost carbon though).
The aliens do need an equilavent option to recycle though, so they can recover from a lack of resources.
No more RTs and less than 15 carbon should definitely not be a game ender though. Aliens can still fight on and take out IPs or nodes, and I have in fact seen aliens win when resource locked.
kthxbai
I think this would give more depth to the strategic side of NS2. Finding the Gold Node, being able to protect it, knowing how to defend which room it's in...
Number of things could be had from a Gold Node.
+1 to that idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adding to this, it would be kind of neat to have "Gold" Tech Points as well. Certain structures could cost like 5% less than what they normally do. Of course, these would have to be rarer than Gold Nodes.
This sounds like it deserves it's own I&S thread.
Team res should be unrelated to kills and deaths.
I don't mind if it doesn't make it in, because I acknowledge the 'star player' issue. I personally don't think it has that great an effect, especially if you allow lower tier weapons to not be obsolete at late-game, which should be the goal.
Also, yeah the +4, +5 thing when you kill someone adds Score, it doesn't add Plasma.
Hive/CC generating team res at the same rate of a res tower is an interesting idea. So you effectively also have one res point for every tech point. Again, interesting idea, don't care if it makes it in or not.
Also, <b>the way extractors/harvesters work in the game is</b>:
4 seconds after THIS tower has finished construction, you get 1 resource from THIS tower; then 12 seconds later, you get 1 resource from THIS tower; etc.
THIS tower's resource timing is unrelated to THAT tower's timing.
So what this means is, if you built 3 towers with a space apart of 0.1 seconds, you'd get 1,2,3 resources quickly, then wait about another 11.7 seconds for the next 1,2,3 resources.
This is, imo, a problem, as it is completely unintuitive and clumsy. I imagine it's also more processor-intensive than it really should be, as each RT operates completely separately. The time instead should be unified; and you should have a <b>constant</b> resource tick rate, based on how many towers you have <b>operating</b> (you could still have that 4 second delay, just have towers in two states: operating and not operating).
I'm a fan of high res rates, and high building costs, combined with the constant tick rate.
However, you could keep the values as is, and also have fractional res instead (displayed as decimals).
So for example, if the server updates resources every second:
Res per second = Number of operating towers * 1/12
New res = Current res + Res per second = e.g. 5/12 + 1/12
Then adding/removing/whatever extractors would only mean changing a number in the team.
Only problem would be if they want to add a speed boost upgrade for individuall extractors (especially temporary upgrades).
For example, if you had a <b>vector full of variables</b>:
<i>"Number of towers" (in each 'state')</i>
[Currently constructing, Not operating, Operating, Upgraded(1), Upgraded(2), Upgraded(3), ...]
Then you could have another <b>vector full of constants</b>:
<i>"Resource per tower" (for each 'state')</i>
[0, 0, ResPerSecond normal, ResPerSecond upgraded(1), ResPerSecond upgraded(2), ResPerSecond upgraded(3), ...]
Take the <b>dot product</b> of the two vectors*, that gives your total res per second.
*Total res per second = (0 * Currently constructing) + (0 * Not Operating) + (ResPerSecond normal * Operating) + (ResPerSecond upgraded(1) * Upgraded(1)) + ...
e.g.
Total res per second = 0*1 + 0*0 + (1/12)*5 + (2/12)*1 + ...
Maybe gorges should be able to recycle buildings and/or harvest carbon without a RT.
Why would you want individual speed upgrades?
<!--quoteo(post=1828125:date=Jan 28 2011, 11:43 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 28 2011, 11:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828125"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as all that using dot like that can do is calculate how much res you would have gotten in one second with the new speed, and not actually give res in the new speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh...? Obviously it's just, once every second, do this:
New res = Previous res + Total res per second
Double res room is just another state you could add.
Maybe gorges should be able to recycle buildings and/or harvest carbon without a RT.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That... could be interesting. o.o
Also, if you've lost your last RT, chances are you're outgunned, and res-for-kills is going to help your enemy more than it will help you.
I feel a better solution would be to have command consoles/hives producing a small amount of resources, independent of what any towers may produce.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I've been having rather a lot of difficulty keeping res towers alive, there isn't really much stopping players from running through blowing them up, and replacing them is a tedious and expensive practice.
RTs need to be a lot tougher, and should preferably have some sort of defence.
I do think the alien side needs some sort of recycle type ability to regain team res. Maybe this could be part of the DI implementation. Something like 're-absorb' that only allows alien comms to do a recycle of structures in DI areas. Or maybe DI could allow for team res to be generated from structure/players kills on DI (maybe as a comm-triggered ability for balance).
Can a marine comm recycle un-powered structures (after a power node is destroyed)? I think this should not be an option. Once the power goes out, the comm no longer should have the chance to recycle.
Interesting discussions here.
NS1 managed the tick rates just fine. You just had to keep in mind how much each res was worth, i.e. a lot. However, in NS1 we had RFK which helped mask the jumps in res production.
I don't think the underlying issue is the jumpy res rates due to individual ticks. SC, DoW, and many other RTS games use the exact same mechanism. The only difference is that in worker-based economies once you have enough workers it smooths out into a stream of resources. Contrast to SupComm where capping nodes would give a steady stream of resources every second. DoW and CoH I believe handle it with steady-stream tick rates as well.
And it's not a matter of scale. Players automatically scale values in their heads just fine.
Swapping to Harimau's state array would be a clean way to normalize the production.
They are called "players".
<!--quoteo(post=1828199:date=Jan 29 2011, 05:18 AM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Jan 29 2011, 05:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1828199"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure that the RTs all have individual tick rates because they can be upgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've accounted for that with the vectors. (I suggested vectors because you can then use the dot product function which I imagine would be very quick and simple to use.) But individual tick rates on the other hand are messy, non-standard and un-intuitive, given the 'capped point' implementation.
Given that you have two resources, Personal and Team; and in the current implementation Personal can be upgraded and Team can't, it's just a matter of creating two constant state-vectors.
Number of towers in each state:
[Currently constructing, Not operating, Operating, Upgraded(1), Upgraded(2), Upgraded(3), ...]
Team:
[0, 0, 1/12, 1/12, 1/12, 1/12, ...]
Personal:
[0, 0, 1/12*1.00, 1/12*1.33, 1/12*1.67, 1/12*2.00, ...]
In the code, plasma and carbon are added separately anyway (though this is rather obvious), so nothing has changed in that sense; it's simply a matter of finding the dot product of the variable vector with each constant vector, and then adding the number to each resource appropriately.
<i>"<b>Commanders</b>: Too big to fail."</i>
i dont support welfare. :) if you failed, recycle and attempt a recovery, otherwise die and try again next time.
If my players are busy elsewhere they usually can't respond fast enough to save the ref, even if they are inclined to try.
It makes no sense to ruin the game because players don't want to break off having fun to go protect a ref somewhere on the other side of the map, that's the job of automated defences.
It makes no sense to ruin the game because players don't want to break off having fun to go protect a ref somewhere on the other side of the map, that's the job of automated defences.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes.
and it goes for both teams, so it's balanced
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do think the alien side needs some sort of recycle type ability to regain team res. Maybe this could be part of the DI implementation. Something like 're-absorb' that only allows alien comms to do a recycle of structures in DI areas.
(...)
Can a marine comm recycle un-powered structures (after a power node is destroyed)? I think this should not be an option. Once the power goes out, the comm no longer should have the chance to recycle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed
and it goes for both teams, so it's balanced<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't say it wasn't, I said it was annoying, and it is, for both teams.
Hence why I want it changed, for both teams, so that it stays balanced but stops being annoying.
Balance does not equal fun.
It would be a trade of for alien to have an economy boost and the cost of having less fighter lifeforms.
Risk's involved could include:
- loss of mobility when harvesting
- loss of speed when carrying res
- Marines get a a good payoff if the kill a gorge with res.
Benefits:
- Gorge more useful for team economy
- Gorge more useful
- Would allow Early gorges to earn point for building their action (which would then have to become more expensive to use).
More brainstorming around the idea of linking gorge stamina to all this, say that's res and the gorge can only replenish at non-marine nodes (so uncapped or alien owned)
Agreed. Defending RT usually involves combat, isn't that what this game is about?
On the other hand, sometimes there is too little action for defenders, when the enemy team completely ignores a position. IMO there should be more tasks (or mini-games, if you will) for base/RT defending soldiers.