Bunny Hoping.
Livonia
Join Date: 2010-07-24 Member: 72744Members
Join Date: 2010-07-24 Member: 72744Members
I feel it's time to have this become a point of general discussion now. The game is becoming more playable each build and with the improvement in fps there is an excessive amount of bunny hoping going on. When I watch marines engage skulks it's becoming a mass of jumping bodies that looks extremely poor, to say the least.
I always envisage jumping in games to be a means of either, obtaining elevation or overcoming obsticles. NS2 is a very asthetic game in my opinion and the current situation of bunny hoping is really starting to annoy me. Jumping in NS2 I think, should be a tool, not a combat technique.
With that said I have a couple of questions.
1 - Is there any planned anti-bunny hoping mechanic in the works? Reduced speed after landing or a cooldown similar to skulk leap would be 2 simple examples.
2 - If there is one planned, when can we expect to see it introduced?
If there isn't one planned, I hope that feedback from myself and any others that share my frustraion will be able to convince UWE to implement one at some point in the near future. I look at it in terms of NS2 and how it enhances or ditracts from the game. For me personally, bunny hoping has little place in NS2 and I find it breaks the immersion and ruins the flow of combat.
So what does everyone else think? Is bunny hoping something you like/dislike, how are you finding combat in NS2 at the moment in regards to jumping, have you any suggestions/solutions/feedback that you would like to share?
P.S. I think my opinion on bunny hoping is clear, all I ask is that people don't argue with differing opinions. Try stay positive and constructive regardless of your preference. Do however make your preference clear though.
I always envisage jumping in games to be a means of either, obtaining elevation or overcoming obsticles. NS2 is a very asthetic game in my opinion and the current situation of bunny hoping is really starting to annoy me. Jumping in NS2 I think, should be a tool, not a combat technique.
With that said I have a couple of questions.
1 - Is there any planned anti-bunny hoping mechanic in the works? Reduced speed after landing or a cooldown similar to skulk leap would be 2 simple examples.
2 - If there is one planned, when can we expect to see it introduced?
If there isn't one planned, I hope that feedback from myself and any others that share my frustraion will be able to convince UWE to implement one at some point in the near future. I look at it in terms of NS2 and how it enhances or ditracts from the game. For me personally, bunny hoping has little place in NS2 and I find it breaks the immersion and ruins the flow of combat.
So what does everyone else think? Is bunny hoping something you like/dislike, how are you finding combat in NS2 at the moment in regards to jumping, have you any suggestions/solutions/feedback that you would like to share?
P.S. I think my opinion on bunny hoping is clear, all I ask is that people don't argue with differing opinions. Try stay positive and constructive regardless of your preference. Do however make your preference clear though.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
not my question but should explain the awkward movement everyone is experiencing.
this question needs to be answered by the developers, and better movement is indeed an issue.
Also, Bunny Hopping is not just 'jumping around' it is a movement exploit that originated from games like Quake. You can not Bunny Hop in NS2.
Example:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFRul5Xcups" target="_blank">Bunny Hopping</a>
Bunnyhopping brought crazy amount of depth to NS1. Currect movement system is way too clumsy and restricting and it is the main reason why I cannot play NS2 at the moment. Return of a clever movement is an absolute necessery to this game, it does not need to be bunnyhob but momentum and certain amount of unpredictablity is needed.
I always envisage jumping in games to be a means of either, obtaining elevation or overcoming obsticles. NS2 is a very asthetic game in my opinion and the current situation of bunny hoping is really starting to annoy me. Jumping in NS2 I think, should be a tool, not a combat technique.
With that said I have a couple of questions.
1 - Is there any planned anti-bunny hoping mechanic in the works? Reduced speed after landing or a cooldown similar to skulk leap would be 2 simple examples.
2 - If there is one planned, when can we expect to see it introduced?
If there isn't one planned, I hope that feedback from myself and any others that share my frustraion will be able to convince UWE to implement one at some point in the near future. I look at it in terms of NS2 and how it enhances or ditracts from the game. For me personally, bunny hoping has little place in NS2 and I find it breaks the immersion and ruins the flow of combat.
So what does everyone else think? Is bunny hoping something you like/dislike, how are you finding combat in NS2 at the moment in regards to jumping, have you any suggestions/solutions/feedback that you would like to share?
P.S. I think my opinion on bunny hoping is clear, all I ask is that people don't argue with differing opinions. Try stay positive and constructive regardless of your preference. Do however make your preference clear though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As a point of clarification. What you're talking about is not bunny-hopping. What you're talking is just people hopping around like idiots.
Bunnyhopping brought crazy amount of depth to NS1. Currect movement system is way too clumsy and restricting and it is the main reason why I cannot play NS2 at the moment. Return of a clever movement is an absolute necessery to this game, it does not need to be bunnyhob but momentum and certain amount of unpredictablity is needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to mention it makes moving not boring in the game. Most games are eliminating skill based movement resulting in me being bored when moving from point A to B. And like what has been said that isn't bhopping, its just people jumping around.
ha.
I dont think there is really much of a way to avoid it. Skulks use to attack & marines use to evade.
I havent checked, but does it fatigue out & also can you sprint strafe? having additional quick evasion movement options might
reduce the jumping.
Personally I use one jump to evade an attack , and strafe.
I cant understand this complaint about lack of skill based movement, dont your movement keys work ? You cant strafe ? Is your version of NS 2 a rail shooter ?
All those so called 'skill based movement techniques' are glitches that require the player to go read a FAQ or ask someone to find out about them, not aquired by getting good at the game.
They are only popular as it allowed a player that knows the game an additional advantage versus a new player, a advantage that no amount of reading the manual or practising playing the game will reward the player, the player has to go find out how to exploit the glitch.
Jeez, I didnt even know about 'wiggle walking' until I read about it here recently on the NS 2 forums, and I used to play hours of NS 1 with a great group of players on SGS when I lived in South Africa.
But that is going back to the arguing about bhopping and wiggle walking arguments and there is no end to it...
-Edit- Like AsnogarD put it. "jumping like mad to evade attacks" This is the part that gets to me, marines and skulks circle strafing while jumping, for me it's just all out game breaking. I'll try fraps a vid of people doing it, and like I said, it's becoming more common in the games I play in.
don't knock it. jumping around like an idiot is pro.
All those so called 'skill based movement techniques' are glitches that require the player to go read a FAQ or ask someone to find out about them, not aquired by getting good at the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to be rude, but this is kind of an ignorant point of view. The point of skill-based movement techniques IS to separate the good players from the bad (or new) players, but it does NOT have to be a glitch or bug in the game. Bunny-hopping happened to be a glitch/bug that turned into a fun skill-based movement technique but there are plenty of other ways to implement these things. For lack of a better example, consider power-sliding in Mario Kart. It's not required to play the game, it's not outwardly apparent that it's possible or there is a benefit, but good players spend the time to learn it and will utilize it for a small speed boost. Anyone can learn it if they put the extra time in and there is a payoff associated with it which makes the game more fun.
My main beef with bunny hopping was the sight of an heavily armed and armoured marine squad <i>flouncing</i> off to the waypoint, talk about immersion breaking, but I also think skills in the game should be gained and mastered... by playing the game.
Not reading some FAQ TBH.
In short I am not against some skill that is programmed into the game, documented as a feature in the manual but needs to be mastered by practise.
They are more likely to run out of bullets.
Strafing definitely is the better way to kill a skulk.
the marine that strafes to my side while keeping me on target...is gonna get the kill.
I have to talk myself out of jumping like an idiot as a marine because i am startled
and it usually is a waste of time.
This will go down well.
I agree. I just wanna throw out there that there ARE normal movement features in NS2 that probably haven't been explored to their full potential (or could be buffed to allow for more skill-based usage).
- Sprint
- Marine melee attack
These are probably more aesthetically appealing skill options to explore than the quake-style "constant random crouch jumping"
This will go down well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Full ack!
Anyway, here's my opinion for the record.
<!--coloro:#ffff00--><span style="color:#ffff00"><!--/coloro-->How someone can think, that to be able to hop around, like having a pogo stick shoved up ones rectum, can be the signboard of a "pro gamer", is beyond me.....<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
All those so called 'skill based movement techniques' are glitches that require the player to go read a FAQ or ask someone to find out about them, not aquired by getting good at the game.
They are only popular as it allowed a player that knows the game an additional advantage versus a new player, a advantage that no amount of reading the manual or practising playing the game will reward the player, the player has to go find out how to exploit the glitch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You guys always forget a big problem in an assymetrical gameplay; it's Meelee vs. Ranged Attacks. Obviously there is a HUGE skill cap in people from shooting walls towards clever positioning, tracking and aiming well. If you don't have ANY techniques for aliens (best way would be easy to learn and difficult to master) to enable people improving from ###### skulks to pro skulks; the balance would be simply ######. And no, strafing, teamwork and ambushing is not enough.
And why are people always tuning their heads into the 'glitch' thing? It doesn't really matter how it was invented for me; it's its use that is important. And from the NS1 learning experience you can easily put in mechanics that aren't a glitch but an intended way on how skulks can move.
I agree that the NS1 movement skills for aliens are hard to learn and therefore don't meet the perfect balance requirements, but that doesn't mean you should cut them completely.
Sorry, couldn't resist. :P
It's like waving a poop-stick in front of all the baddie flies.
NS1 was balanced around bhoping. If you couldn't do it, by anyone's definition you were and continue to be a NOVICE.
Novices should spend more time learning and less time with their jowls waggling IMO.
On a more serious note, if someone still doesn't know or understand what this is all about, go read Fana's <a href="http://www.ninelegends.com/the-argument-for-bunnyhopping/" target="_blank">article</a> on Ninelegends.
Did you consider that people who don't bunnyhop maybe just dont want to do that because its boring as hell? Having to tap a key to make a marine jump at the right interval to get a slight movement speed increase or whatever is just ridiculous. There are much more interesting areas where the game should be skill based - team work - shooting - strategy - commanding etc. If this 'skill based movement' is so important why dont u play racing games instead?