Fog of War
Triggerman
Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
Graphic Artist Join Date: 2004-11-10 Member: 32724Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
<div class="IPBDescription">Something that every RTS needs, is NS2 up for the task?</div><i>Many, if not all RTS games have a fog of war. Is this something that will come in the future for NS2? </i>
<img src="http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/24/10712-fog1_large.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>Take note of the transparent fog and you'll know what I'm talking about.</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<a href="http://www.giantbomb.com/fog-of-war/92-14/" target="_blank">Fog of War - GiantBomb.com</a>
It's fairly odd to see alien characters phase in and out of existence while commanding, as well as being able to see dynamic lighting across the map change when you clearly shouldn't be able to, unless the Command Center is connected to the station itself and knows when the lights are out, but still. It makes commanding a bit of a jagged experience.
The fog of war really helps to know where your territories are, when an area blanks out when structures or marines are killed and adding a whole new level of awareness.
Starcraft 1/2 uses this heavily, and structures that have been discovered are kept viewable for the player but only updated when a unit is nearby, making mindgames such as fake-deploying a tactic then switch after the scout is dead.
It's definitively a case of "will this work for NS2?" since the structures in Starcraft 2 morphs, have extensions and view production whereas NS2 does not use all that much, but if you have to draw inspiration from a game then SC2 wouldn't be a bad place to start.
However I can imagine this isn't that easy to implement (the visual fog) without hitting performance issues again, but for the sake of NS2 being a full-out game I personally think this is something that needs to be done at some point.
<b>Pros:</b>
<ul><li>Mindgames, you can trick your opponent into thinking that you are going a specific tech-route then switch.</li><li>Preparation and ease of use when it comes to scouting, if structures are kept it is easier to keep track of things and to deploy a counter-tactic.</li><li>It is a great interface feature that helps you to see what the unit on the ground sees and makes it look less buggy from a Commander's/newcomer to the game's PoV.</li><li>Pretty much standard in all RTS games to have this, NS2 commander-mode shouldn't be an exception.</li></ul>
<b>Cons:</b>
<ul><li>Technically challenging, especially considering all the other technologies the engine uses (dynamic lights, DI, physics, LUA-scripts).</li><li>May seem like a wasted effort since the fog is only visual feedback really.</li><li>Considering the game consists of confined spaces, it would be hard to confine the PoV (visually in the fog) from a unit inside the walls without a lot of work.</li></ul>
<img src="http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/24/10712-fog1_large.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>Take note of the transparent fog and you'll know what I'm talking about.</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<a href="http://www.giantbomb.com/fog-of-war/92-14/" target="_blank">Fog of War - GiantBomb.com</a>
It's fairly odd to see alien characters phase in and out of existence while commanding, as well as being able to see dynamic lighting across the map change when you clearly shouldn't be able to, unless the Command Center is connected to the station itself and knows when the lights are out, but still. It makes commanding a bit of a jagged experience.
The fog of war really helps to know where your territories are, when an area blanks out when structures or marines are killed and adding a whole new level of awareness.
Starcraft 1/2 uses this heavily, and structures that have been discovered are kept viewable for the player but only updated when a unit is nearby, making mindgames such as fake-deploying a tactic then switch after the scout is dead.
It's definitively a case of "will this work for NS2?" since the structures in Starcraft 2 morphs, have extensions and view production whereas NS2 does not use all that much, but if you have to draw inspiration from a game then SC2 wouldn't be a bad place to start.
However I can imagine this isn't that easy to implement (the visual fog) without hitting performance issues again, but for the sake of NS2 being a full-out game I personally think this is something that needs to be done at some point.
<b>Pros:</b>
<ul><li>Mindgames, you can trick your opponent into thinking that you are going a specific tech-route then switch.</li><li>Preparation and ease of use when it comes to scouting, if structures are kept it is easier to keep track of things and to deploy a counter-tactic.</li><li>It is a great interface feature that helps you to see what the unit on the ground sees and makes it look less buggy from a Commander's/newcomer to the game's PoV.</li><li>Pretty much standard in all RTS games to have this, NS2 commander-mode shouldn't be an exception.</li></ul>
<b>Cons:</b>
<ul><li>Technically challenging, especially considering all the other technologies the engine uses (dynamic lights, DI, physics, LUA-scripts).</li><li>May seem like a wasted effort since the fog is only visual feedback really.</li><li>Considering the game consists of confined spaces, it would be hard to confine the PoV (visually in the fog) from a unit inside the walls without a lot of work.</li></ul>
Comments
After all...
* Marines have the installation's layout in their database or have it acquired from the owner
* Aliens have been around a while and should have been everywhere.
Exceptions are secret rooms nobody knows off until an onos or a welder squad breaks in.
After all...
* Marines have the installation's layout in their database or have it acquired from the owner
* Aliens have been around a while and should have been everywhere.
Exceptions are secret rooms nobody knows off until an onos or a welder squad breaks in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes of course, I actually meant to talk about the transparent fog of war rather than the solid black in that image. I think most games have gotten rid of that when it comes to multiplayer at least.
And of course fix the phasing in of buildings, but the dynamic lighting changes shouldn't change IMHO, powernodes are marine structures so they should either see the room or reveal a radius around them
It is not an open area, where you are supposed to see everything in your territory. The fog system says "fog=see no enemey units ; no fog=see every movement".
In NS the units can sneak through your territory without even being noticed. So the fog would not make any difference.
It's more like a helmet camera, and I like it that way. Alien in sight=visible ; Alien not in sight= - of course - not visible.
And Obs and Scan is a little additional helper.
But I hope I am right. When you don't have an Obs in NS1, you don't see an Alien walking through your base as com, right?
If I am wrong, I hope it will be made like that, hopefully really near, around fades long swipe distance. Merely just as a way to see what kind of thing is chewing on your stuff, or sneaks to a well hidden spot in your base.
But yeah, fog of war is already in.
example: entering a crowded room and walking through, and not being 100% sure the marine's line of sight caught behind that crate or not. Skulk hiding there? Have to guess at it and hope not. At least with a visible fog, you could confirm that yes, the marine checked it and it's safe.
This would be especially important when moving into a hive room for the kill.