Does a dedicated really need PhysX ? Why?

Game-SlothGame-Sloth Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76371Members
in NS2 General Discussion
I am doing research to try to decide whether to rent a dedicated or do a colocation of a 4U high performance server I own. The one thing I can not understand is the requirement for the server software to have PhysX. Is this still true? It really does not make sense. If it is true I might go with colocation and a PhysX enabled GPU.
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  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Maybe try running one without PhysX and see what happens? I suspect they required that for a good reason, but I don't know what it is.
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  • McGlaspieMcGlaspie www.team156.com Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    I can't speak to how much or when the server does, but I do know a lot of Physics calculations are done on the server and then sent to players/clients. So, I'm guessing they're using it for either collision related tasks, or things like hydra spikes, probably both.
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  • MOOtantMOOtant Join Date: 2010-06-25 Member: 72158Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1824538:date=Jan 15 2011, 05:42 AM:name=Game-Sloth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Game-Sloth @ Jan 15 2011, 05:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824538"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am doing research to try to decide whether to rent a dedicated or do a colocation of a 4U high performance server I own. The one thing I can not understand is the requirement for the server software to have PhysX. Is this still true? It really does not make sense. If it is true I might go with colocation and a PhysX enabled GPU.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It doesn't use GPU stop spreading FUD.
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  • KoruyoKoruyo AUT Join Date: 2009-06-06 Member: 67724Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2011
    Just googled "physx cpu" and i have to say... woot, i wouldnt use physx until version 3.0 => nvidias promise to implement automatic cpu multithreading(atm devs need to do adjust/deal with it themself, only uses single thread if not) and SSE (atm uses x87, dunno is kinda oldskewl huh?...)

    But since i have no plan of such stuff, i guess its still worth using it for the stuff uwe wants it to do!


    PhysX in ns2 doesnt make use of your gpu no matter what... so no, you dont have to care about your gpu in ya server nor in your pcs.
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  • Game-SlothGame-Sloth Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76371Members
    edited January 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1824570:date=Jan 15 2011, 01:19 AM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Jan 15 2011, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824570"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It doesn't use GPU stop spreading FUD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I hardly think asking a simple question on a forum is spreading FUD.
    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Dedicated_Server" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/inde...edicated_Server</a>
    It states the server is utilizing PhysX.
    Although PhysX can be emulated in software, most games that use PhysX in hardware (ie NVIDIA cards) can see a substantial improvement.
    I was just asking if the server would benefit from a GPU performing the acceleration. It is also very strange to see a server have this requirement.
    As I mentioned in my post, I am just doing some research.
    Please reread my post - I think you missed the beginning, middle and ending of it.
    I never said the dedicated server uses a GPU. I asked why it uses PhysX and would it benefit from PhysX running on the GPU.
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  • Game-SlothGame-Sloth Join Date: 2011-01-06 Member: 76371Members
    edited January 2011
    <!--quoteo(post=1824579:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:55 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Jan 15 2011, 03:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824579"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PhysX in ns2 doesnt make use of your gpu no matter what... so no, you dont have to care about your gpu in ya server nor in your pcs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks, now I still have to decide on renting a dedicated or installing my own (colocation).
    I have an awesome high performance server (designed for server based FFT calculations) but it is a 4U size which is pretty expensive rack space.
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  • devicenulldevicenull Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    It's fairly standard that server software requires PhysX installed. It's not really necessary to have a GPU that supports it though. The CPU based support is good enough for the server, as the server doesn't have to deal with all the tiny little physics objects that clients do.
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  • MOOtantMOOtant Join Date: 2010-06-25 Member: 72158Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1824605:date=Jan 15 2011, 04:56 PM:name=Game-Sloth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Game-Sloth @ Jan 15 2011, 04:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824605"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hardly think asking a simple question on a forum is spreading FUD.
    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Dedicated_Server" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/inde...edicated_Server</a>
    It states the server is utilizing PhysX.
    Although PhysX can be emulated in software, most games that use PhysX in hardware (ie NVIDIA cards) can see a substantial improvement.
    I was just asking if the server would benefit from a GPU performing the acceleration. It is also very strange to see a server have this requirement.
    As I mentioned in my post, I am just doing some research.
    Please reread my post - I think you missed the beginning, middle and ending of it.
    I never said the dedicated server uses a GPU. I asked why it uses PhysX and would it benefit from PhysX running on the GPU.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Stop trolling, seriously.
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  • FehaFeha Join Date: 2006-11-16 Member: 58633Members
    I wonder why servers need directx :S.
    If I understood it right, directx is graphics only, and physx is physics only (correct me if I am wrong please), and physx would make sense then (so stuff can collide), while I got no idea at all why a server would need to do graphics.
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  • TKMRTKMR Join Date: 2010-12-23 Member: 75881Members
    edited January 2011
    I'd like to know this too actually. I posted awhile ago about linux dedicated server availability and seemed to get the impression from posts that there would, by the time of release, be linux server binaries, but thinking about it if the server REQUIRES PhysX and DirectX, that's a problem since AFAIK PhysX is only available for Windows, and DirectX is definitely only available for Windows since it's a Microsoft prodcut. This kind of limits a lot of communities that rent or own a linux server as opposed to Windows (I won't go into why and make this a linux vs. Windows thread though =P ).

    Also MOOtant, your two posts lead me to believe that you are the troll. You clearly aren't reading his posts, he is only asking for help. Not only that but PhysX DOES use the GPU, in fact it is DESIGNED to use nVidia GPUs while running poorly on CPUs and AMD/ATi GPUs (although according to Koruyo's posts this may be changing soon, I'll have to look into that).

    EDIT: Wow, ok. Turns out there is nVidia client for linux, so it's just directX requirement for servers holding it back. =(
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  • MOOtantMOOtant Join Date: 2010-06-25 Member: 72158Members
    It was already answered. Association with Nvidia has absolutely nothing with use of GPU. It uses your CPU to perform rigid body simulation. IT DOES NOT PAY OFF TO SEND IT TO GRAPHICS CARD. Do I have to shout louder? Bullet has some test code that tries few bits on GPU but it's Bullet not PhysX. Now close the topic and add answer to this question to wiki/FAQ or website/FAQ.

    "Not only that but PhysX DOES use the GPU, in fact it is DESIGNED to use nVidia GPUs while running poorly on CPUs and AMD/ATi GPUs" is plain bull######, 95% of PhysX CPU code hasn't changed since Ageia wrote it for plain CPUs. But well next person will come here, he'll associate PhysX with Nvidia and spread more bull######. Circle of trolling.
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  • hookuyhookuy Join Date: 2008-07-18 Member: 64660Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1824685:date=Jan 15 2011, 08:20 PM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Jan 15 2011, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was already answered. Association with Nvidia has absolutely nothing with use of GPU. It uses your CPU to perform rigid body simulation. IT DOES NOT PAY OFF TO SEND IT TO GRAPHICS CARD. Do I have to shout louder? Bullet has some test code that tries few bits on GPU but it's Bullet not PhysX. Now close the topic and add answer to this question to wiki/FAQ or website/FAQ.

    "Not only that but PhysX DOES use the GPU, in fact it is DESIGNED to use nVidia GPUs while running poorly on CPUs and AMD/ATi GPUs" is plain bull######, 95% of PhysX CPU code hasn't changed since Ageia wrote it for plain CPUs. But well next person will come here, he'll associate PhysX with Nvidia and spread more bull######. Circle of trolling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    From Wiki:

    "PhysX is a proprietary realtime physics engine middleware SDK acquired by Ageia (which itself was acquired by Nvidia in February 2008[1]) with the purchase of ETH Zurich spin-off NovodeX in 2004. The term PhysX can also refer to the PPU expansion card designed by Ageia to accelerate PhysX-enabled video games.
    Video games supporting hardware acceleration by PhysX can be accelerated by either a PhysX PPU or a CUDA-enabled GeForce GPU (which has at least 32 CUDA cores), thus offloading physics calculations from the CPU, allowing it to perform other tasks instead — resulting in a smoother gaming experience and additional visual effects.

    Any CUDA-ready GeForce graphics card (series 8 and newer, having 32 or more cores and 256MB or more of video memory[13]) can take advantage of PhysX without the need to install a dedicated PhysX card.
    Versions 186 and newer of the ForceWare drivers disable PhysX hardware acceleration when a GPU from a different manufacturer, such as AMD, is present in the system.[13] Representatives at Nvidia stated to customers that the decision was made due to development expenses, and for quality assurance and business reasons.[10][14] This decision has caused a backlash from the community that led to the creation of a community patch for Windows 7, circumventing the GPU check in Nvidia's updated drivers. Nvidia also implemented a time bomb in versions 196 and 197 which slowed down hardware-accelerated PhysX and reversed the gravity, leading to unwanted physical effects[15] - which was again remedied by the updated version of the community patch.[16]
    At first it was believed that Nvidia removed this restriction in the beta release of the 257.15 drivers, rendering the patch useless; but Nvidia updated their blog[17] announcing that this was a "bug" and that ATI/PhysX support will be disabled in the official WHQL certified release"

    Next in line...
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  • PlasmaPlasma Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    As far as I was aware PhysX in this game only uses the software version; so you can run a server on a computer without a powerful GPU.
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  • TKMRTKMR Join Date: 2010-12-23 Member: 75881Members
    Awwh. The troll is so cute. =)

    Anyways, I still haven't seen Game-Sloth's question answered.

    Also, what PhysX calcualtions are done server side? A solid answer with a reference would be awesome, opposed to speculation as well. Is there anything on the wiki about it?
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  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members
    A solid answer with a reference......... cbf. You can do your own research:
    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=Search&CODE=getalluser&mid=318" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....ser&mid=318</a>
    ^"All of Max's Posts (Engine Coder)"
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  • PlasmaPlasma Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1824780:date=Jan 16 2011, 08:05 AM:name=TKMR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TKMR @ Jan 16 2011, 08:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824780"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Awwh. The troll is so cute. =)

    Anyways, I still haven't seen Game-Sloth's question answered.

    Also, what PhysX calcualtions are done server side? A solid answer with a reference would be awesome, opposed to speculation as well. Is there anything on the wiki about it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    huh?
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  • MrYiffMrYiff Join Date: 2004-08-24 Member: 30867Members, NS2 Playtester
    For confirmation from Max about PhysX running in software only:

    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&hl=&pid=1821768" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....amp;pid=1821768</a>

    For details of what PhysX is used for see this comment:

    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&hl=&pid=1821480" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....amp;pid=1821480</a>
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