Several suggestions(Mainly remove Jump for Marines)
Mkilbride
Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69952Members
Join Date: 2010-01-07 Member: 69952Members
I've yet to see any map where it's useful, except for jumping around in circles to avoid being killed. I play mainly as Marine, but man, does it really kill atmosphere when you see 2-3 marines at the end of the tunnels jumping and spinning around, then stopping to shoot an Alien.
Many big name games have released without jump lately and have met with success, AA3, ArmAII, AVP2010, ect. One of the things is, in the videos for the game, obviously the cinematics, the game has great atmosphere.
But throw in some marines, some aliens, and well, all the atmosphere goes away? I dunno, it just seems to have no atmosphere in-game, at least on the different servers I've tried. Aliens can continue to jump, it's the whole point.
Thing is Marines are holding heavy weapons, and tons of gear, they shouldn't be able to jump. I know this isn't a realistic shooter, but I think it'd add to the atmosphere, people would watch each others backs more. Like I said, I haven't seen anything you'd need jump for at current, and if there is, maybe put a little climb type command with space to allow you to climb onto it, over it, ectera.. Just seems utterly out of place in a shooter like this; sure NS1 had it, but this is NS2.
Also it'd be really cool if you could look down and see your body, like in games like Chronicle of Rid######, ArmA2, L4D, and various other games. At to some atmosphere there, too.
A gas mask that is purchasable upgrade, too, would be nice, that would allow you to operate when the little flier tosses out it's poison. Maybe that's a part of the heavy armor already, I dunno, but I think it'd be cool as a separate thing to purchase also. Make it like 10-15 Carbon.
Perhaps also have a Night Vision upgrade available, as an alternative to the Flash Light giving you away, it could be 10-15 Carbon again, and it'd illuminate nicely, but also blind you if the lights suddenly went on, for like 2-3 seconds. Although the game is pretty bright right now, I can't seem to turn down brightness in-game, though...but it's pretty bright.
Many big name games have released without jump lately and have met with success, AA3, ArmAII, AVP2010, ect. One of the things is, in the videos for the game, obviously the cinematics, the game has great atmosphere.
But throw in some marines, some aliens, and well, all the atmosphere goes away? I dunno, it just seems to have no atmosphere in-game, at least on the different servers I've tried. Aliens can continue to jump, it's the whole point.
Thing is Marines are holding heavy weapons, and tons of gear, they shouldn't be able to jump. I know this isn't a realistic shooter, but I think it'd add to the atmosphere, people would watch each others backs more. Like I said, I haven't seen anything you'd need jump for at current, and if there is, maybe put a little climb type command with space to allow you to climb onto it, over it, ectera.. Just seems utterly out of place in a shooter like this; sure NS1 had it, but this is NS2.
Also it'd be really cool if you could look down and see your body, like in games like Chronicle of Rid######, ArmA2, L4D, and various other games. At to some atmosphere there, too.
A gas mask that is purchasable upgrade, too, would be nice, that would allow you to operate when the little flier tosses out it's poison. Maybe that's a part of the heavy armor already, I dunno, but I think it'd be cool as a separate thing to purchase also. Make it like 10-15 Carbon.
Perhaps also have a Night Vision upgrade available, as an alternative to the Flash Light giving you away, it could be 10-15 Carbon again, and it'd illuminate nicely, but also blind you if the lights suddenly went on, for like 2-3 seconds. Although the game is pretty bright right now, I can't seem to turn down brightness in-game, though...but it's pretty bright.
Comments
One of the things that set Pro's apart from the average player in NS was their ability to use jump to successfully dodge one, if not numerous attacks from an Alien player.
Not to mention how annoying it is when there is a 15cm ledge that you cant jump up onto. Games where you cant jump are the worst.
-1 for nightvision, it helped in ns1 for carrying noobs, but it negates the pretty flashlight.
also, do not remove jump, just cuz beginners are having trouble landing skulk bites in a laggy server.
my map has a room where marines have to jump platform to platform lest they fall into a pit where they are easy skulk prey (there's ladders to get back up).
I tried the recent Alien v Predator game and it felt weird (in a bad way) not being able to jump.
Yes, maybe at least a Stamina bar, or a delay of 2 seconds between jumping, but at current this is seeming more like a Twitch shooter, ala quake or UT2004, by the day.
But throw in some marines, some aliens, and well, all the atmosphere goes away? I dunno, it just seems to have no atmosphere in-game, at least on the different servers I've tried. Aliens can continue to jump, it's the whole point.
Thing is Marines are holding heavy weapons, and tons of gear, they shouldn't be able to jump. I know this isn't a realistic shooter, but I think it'd add to the atmosphere, people would watch each others backs more. Like I said, I haven't seen anything you'd need jump for at current, and if there is, maybe put a little climb type command with space to allow you to climb onto it, over it, ectera.. Just seems utterly out of place in a shooter like this; sure NS1 had it, but this is NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
(edit: apparently they are like a bit of Halo styles where their like enhanced humans, which makes sense about the epic weaponry they carry)
Ok first off buddy if you havn't realised most big titles have jumping, and AVP was a bit of a fail.
but honestly World of Warcraft, most of the time you don't need jumping, yet they include it, Call of Duty they include it too, heck even Halo.
Not having jumping now seems obsurd, since these titles are making more money than those ones you've mentioned together.
Since their not bent on reality based gaming, where in reality most people can actaully jump however, umm thing is the titles your refering too, 2 of them are reality based. But Call of Duty, Halo, and World of Warcraft, arn't and look how the money flowed.
Reality gaming made success out of the unsuccussful choice, great. But let's face it NS2 is more for fun than doing the less popular route.
What is all boils down to is, taking jumping away is stupid, plus since they wan't to bring in jet-packs, which would defeat the purpose of removing jumping. and that jumping is fun. I'd jump a whole lot more if I didn't get so tired. Thanks for your time bro.
A gas mask that is purchasable upgrade, too, would be nice, that would allow you to operate when the little flier tosses out it's poison. Maybe that's a part of the heavy armor already, I dunno, but I think it'd be cool as a separate thing to purchase also. Make it like 10-15 Carbon.
Perhaps also have a Night Vision upgrade available, as an alternative to the Flash Light giving you away, it could be 10-15 Carbon again, and it'd illuminate nicely, but also blind you if the lights suddenly went on, for like 2-3 seconds. Although the game is pretty bright right now, I can't seem to turn down brightness in-game, though...but it's pretty bright.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK now second reply, Seeing your body would be epic, seeing damage done to you would be too, like skulk ripping first out your armor then your intestines!
Then Gasmasks, well ok, that could look pretty cool so I'll thumbs up for that too.
Night vision instead of lights as realistic as that is for present day and even more for a fun sci-fi I would like them to keep flash lights adds to atmosphere. Marines put a priority on lights while aliens put a priority on no lights. awesome.
Yes, maybe at least a Stamina bar, or a delay of 2 seconds between jumping, but at current this is seeming more like a Twitch shooter, ala quake or UT2004, by the day.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This I like and thought was in place, need to have a stanima bar, for prolonged sprinting or bunny hoppers, who showcase their lack of skill.
A 2 second, or even, 1 second delay time would be epic to.
Fatigue meter awesome, removing shooting while jumping, it takes away the epicness of what action movies taught us, jumping while shooting is down right bad-ass. And a reason why I love Halo, oh yeah.
Are you honestly saying they should copy what's popular, so as to increase sales? That's called being a tool. They should make their own game, the way they want it. I am merely suggesting things, not telling them to sell out like you are.
And I said as an alternative to Flashlights, you'd still have it, but it could be something you buy, it fits with the Alien FPS feeling. And World of Warcraft is retarded with it's jumping, downright retarded game in general.
As for maps that would need it, simply add, as I said, a climb button like alot of games do these days.
Removing shooting while jumping is a good idea also, it kills the atmosphere. To me, the thing is, like the Fade reveal, it oozes atmosphere...but you don't see anyone playing the game like that, it's all jumping back and forth and shooting because it makes you harder to hit, while not affecting your accuracy. Kinda lame.
That was NS1, this is NS2, it should come with changes. The fundamental values of the game are already there; but there should be something to make it not NS1 with just a graphics update...at current, that's all it seems to be, and it has so much potential that I can see.
And dude...editor posts, cmon, you did not need to quad-post.
Gas Mask: +1
Yep nice idea. Will be good against lerks. :) But on the other hand i think its bad for alien player who loves to play lerk because they can "manage" that the marines retreat.
Nightvision: -1
Like the dark area´s in NS2 where you need a flashlight. The Nightvision will destory this fantastic atmosphere. Maybe the aliens should get a nightvision.
@jumping around
Don´t like a fatigue meter. Maybe they should create a countdown between each jump. For me the jumping is one part of NS1/2.
One good thing to come out of gas masks is the cool factor, though.
Are you honestly saying they should copy what's popular, so as to increase sales? That's called being a tool. They should make their own game, the way they want it. I am merely suggesting things, not telling them to sell out like you are.
And I said as an alternative to Flashlights, you'd still have it, but it could be something you buy, it fits with the Alien FPS feeling. And World of Warcraft is retarded with it's jumping, downright retarded game in general.
As for maps that would need it, simply add, as I said, a climb button like alot of games do these days.
Removing shooting while jumping is a good idea also, it kills the atmosphere. To me, the thing is, like the Fade reveal, it oozes atmosphere...but you don't see anyone playing the game like that, it's all jumping back and forth and shooting because it makes you harder to hit, while not affecting your accuracy. Kinda lame.
That was NS1, this is NS2, it should come with changes. The fundamental values of the game are already there; but there should be something to make it not NS1 with just a graphics update...at current, that's all it seems to be, and it has so much potential that I can see.
And dude...editor posts, cmon, you did not need to quad-post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No I'm not saying sell out at all, I'm just using them as titles that are more famous to the ones you were referring too.
Plus if WoW was such a crap game why is it one of the biggest games around, I agree make your own game awesome, but if you didn't look, they ask, where has it been done better. So they are obviously wanting to know what games made a success out of the idea's and which ones didn't.
Call of duty is huge FPS you can't say it's not that great, majority of gamers would tell you it's one of the greatest FPS out there.
They have jump, realism mods such as PR from BF2 has jump, the 3 games I mentioned has it too. Now yes jumping wasn't the main thing that made them famous but if it was the wrong choice why do they all still keep it, obviously it must be the right choice instead of the wrong one.
You talk about Halo being a crappy shooter, well try tell that to the millions of fan's who bought the new Halo: Reach. you just seem to have bad taste in games, which is a sad sight but true none the less. I don't care take shooting out of jumping, but lets look at it on the point that their probably planning on bringing in jetpacks, which mean though the current maps have little use to jumping later one most probably will.
One good thing to come out of gas masks is the cool factor, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've got some awesome points bro.
Yeah I love the idea of it spreading out, um would it stack? like if two lerks put out the gas then would it be 2x concentrate?
Also I recon they should make the lerk either attack slower or have less damage, since they can do some hefty damage and quick.
Whats your thoughts on making the lerks a bit slower or you think their speed is alright(flying meaning)
One more thing, I actually wouldn't like them having gas masks, but having the gas grow from small heavy concentration to large little concentration would be cool. Perhaps include vent's that while the power is on the gas's damage is decreased and when the power is shut down then the damage is normal??
small area, close distance, medium-high concentration, low energy;
small area, close distance, high concentration, high energy;
large area, far distance, low concentration, low energy;
large area, far distance, medium-low concentration, high energy;
etc. - the mechanic itself balances itself. If you have multiple lerks, you could have a higher concentration per area (small or large) and/or a lower energy cost per Lerk.
Also, I like the idea that spores don't poison or suffocate marines, but instead corrode away at them (especially armour, so it could be used as a support weapon) - then they could be used on buildings as well (but of course you'd have to get up close and personal to gas a building effectively).
Cory has put in that Lerk spikes will have bullet drop (just that it hasn't been implemented in the code yet) which will make sniping more skilful, but I'd also like to see a higher energy cost and/or bullet spread and/or lower rate of fire for the regular spikes.
I think a Lerk should take two or three snipes to kill a standard marine, and maybe three or four snipes for a decked out one - snipes should do less damage to buildings except turrets (to prevent a Lerk just hanging back and sniping away at power nodes, but make them effective at taking out those annoying turrets) - four or five snipes should deplete all its energy, so sniping can't be abused.
Lerk flying speed is fine, but I would like for it to be easier to aim while flying. i.e. being able to turn one's head to either side, say 30 degrees, allowing for strafing runs. Right now, your best bet is to hang back at a distance while crouching somewhere, and just fire away, or come flying in from behind and shoot them in the back. There's also a trick where, I'm not sure, I think you fly up to maintain/restore altitude, and as you drop, you aim and fire, then fly back up to maintain/restore altitude, etc. - this kind of erratic movement does make you harder to hit, too.
I think as a purely cosmetic idea, gas masks are cool. But then there's no point or justification for having it in as only a cosmetic feature.
I can't say I like the idea of removing jump, primarily because NS2 is from the half-life school of first person shooters. I'd go in the opposite direction, and just make jump useful.
Let's consider movement penalties first: When I press the forward key, I'm used to moving at a certain speed - I've linked the two concepts in my mind. But if you then reduce my speed, but <b>have not somehow hindered my finger</b> (imagine a game that does that...), there's now a mismatch between the "exertion" of my finger and my movement speed; it feels broken. Rather than contribute to immersion, it has broken it. One note (to cover my ass), in racing games, when you crash into something, there's a very strong visual and aural indicator, which overrides that.
View penalties, other than just the sheer irritation, can also be considered the same way: I'm used to my screen being as I usually see it, I'm used to explosions and huge graphical effects occurring but they are <b>external</b> - they are a <b>part</b> of my view, they <b>don't affect</b> it. But with extraneous effects: When you wash the screen in colour (flashbang), screen rattling, blindness, etc.; you break that concept of freedom and clarity of view. And you break the immersion. Note that (again, just to cover my ass) in the case of muzzle climb in those sorts of games, muzzle climb is linked with holding down the mouse button, as well as the visual (muzzle flash) and aural (gunshot) indicators.
I think jumping should carry a penalty like in CS, where marine movement speed is slowed slightly (~20% penalty) after each jump. This is to discourage marines jumping outside of the intended purpose: to navigate difficult terrain (onto ledges, creates etc).
Marines already have Sprint for travelling quickly and for evasive action. Jump spamming is good for neither gameplay nor aesthetics.
Let's consider movement penalties first: When I press the forward key, I'm used to moving at a certain speed - I've linked the two concepts in my mind. But if you then reduce my speed, but <b>have not somehow hindered my finger</b> (imagine a game that does that...), there's now a mismatch between the "exertion" of my finger and my movement speed; it feels broken. Rather than contribute to immersion, it has broken it. One note (to cover my ass), in racing games, when you crash into something, there's a very strong visual and aural indicator, which overrides that.
View penalties, other than just the sheer irritation, can also be considered the same way: I'm used to my screen being as I usually see it, I'm used to explosions and huge graphical effects occurring but they are <b>external</b> - they are a <b>part</b> of my view, they <b>don't affect</b> it. But with extraneous effects: When you wash the screen in colour (flashbang), screen rattling, blindness, etc.; you break that concept of freedom and clarity of view. And you break the immersion. Note that (again, just to cover my ass) in the case of muzzle climb in those sorts of games, muzzle climb is linked with holding down the mouse button, as well as the visual (muzzle flash) and aural (gunshot) indicators.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed on the movement thing but I have to disagree with the view penalties thing (unless I'm misunderstanding you, in which case, my apologies) especially flashbang effects or camera shaking. First off, if there is no camera shaking when an Onos is nearby (similar to the tank in L4D) I'll be a little disappointed. I assume that an onos isn't too common of a sight but I never played NS1 so not sure here. Or just someway for the onos to convey its size and power, similar to the teaser trailer (making the objects in the level shake is a good alternative).
As for flashbangs, that's intentional and part of game design. I have this ability to blind you and take away your ability to actively aim and shoot me. This is already in NS2 with drifter flairs and is a tactical decision by the other to team to use resources ( a drifter) to impair the enemy team. I would like to see some sort of thing for the marines that achieves a similar effect though.
As for jumping, removing it entirely is frustrating and rather lame. As much as I hate to say this, implement it as CoD did in Black Ops (I have no idea if it's similar in other CoDs). So your first jump is entirely normal as it is now and can help you quickly evade and continue moving. A second jump will kill your forward momentum and a third jump will not go very high. This doesn't decrease skill as you can't just spam the the jump button anymore, you have to make your jumps count. Now it takes like 1 second to "recharge" or just not jump to not get the decreased effects. It also addresses Harimau's concern with movement penalties. Now when you push spacebar in rapid succession you'll know that your forward velocity will be killed. As it does in real life although this isn't exactly the most realistic game, lol, it just makes it feel more immersive which is important to many people and only adds to the game when you feel like marines in a hostile environment filled with bloodthirsty aliens.
Gasmasks are useless in any case because the lerk spits ACID not choking spores. Hence why heavy armor is the only thing to resist it.
As for jumping, I agree with above post. Keep it in, but limited.
once in a game, at the start i immediately rushed to the hive, i lasted about 5 minutes in the hive because i was sprinting around jumping and makign the enemy screw up and juking them.
because of this we won the game, two skulks and one gorge on a laggy server chased me and they failed as the med packs were on the line.
like in day of defeat, PLEASE add a fatigue bar, perhaps right next to the health bar.
once in a game, at the start i immediately rushed to the hive, i lasted about 5 minutes in the hive because i was sprinting around jumping and makign the enemy screw up and juking them.
because of this we won the game, two skulks and one gorge on a laggy server chased me and they failed as the med packs were on the line.
like in day of defeat, PLEASE add a fatigue bar, perhaps right next to the health bar.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha yeah man, I was playing with you. We kept out running Fades like nothing, Skulks couldn't get us if we jumped left and right, too. It's just far to easy.
People complain Marines are OP, Aliens are OP, but it's not that really, it's either you've got a good commander, or a bad commander. That's the fatal flaw of the game really, Commander system is great, but if you have a ###### Commander, and he won't leave, and you can't eject him, well you're ######. Like I had a Comm earlier who fast-teched to Weapons 3 & Flamethrowers, and we raped.
Then after that, we had a game of 5 v 5, and the new commander couldn't put turrets down and wasn't researching Grenade Launchers, so the enemies were hiding in the vents and denying us access to areas easily. All the Marines left the game.
So really, the two races are rather balanced besides this little issue. I find it funny I can outrun a fade, I dunno, I just expect them to be faster than me. Everytime I see a fade and I am out of ammo, I just run, and I have not been killed yet.
I thought it was acid, cause heard they put an effect on altering shots made by the assault weapon.
Night vision, as realistic as it is, especially for high-tech marines. I just love the idea of carrying a torch with, me..
*Bad game design.
(From the player's perspective.)
I've never liked fatigue bars to be honest. They always seem excessive (in that you run out of stamina so quickly). And I simply don't think they're necessary in a setting like NS's.
Maybe just have the marine start panting after having done a certain number of jumps in succession after which he can't jump or run as effectively until the unseen meter bar has reached full again.
Maybe just have the marine start panting after having done a certain number of jumps in succession after which he can't jump or run as effectively until the unseen meter bar has reached full again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because Aliens don't have to reload. You'll notice jumping doesn't eat up adrenaline for Aliens.
After all, it's kind of silly to have them work only at one point directly in front of you when you're swinging claws/chomping huge teeth at people.