Lerk Roost and Gorge Damage Soak
Quovatis
Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Team Inversion Join Date: 2010-01-26 Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<div class="IPBDescription">Intentionally removed?</div>Both these were great abilities...why were they removed for the beta? Never got an explanation from UWE, as they were just removed without seeing anything on the progress page about it. I especially miss the gorge damage soak ability.
Comments
lerk roost was in 151 i think. i liked it. but i could see how it would be overpowered.
I just got an awesome idea for a marine tech upgrade! gorge saddles. Capture enemy gorges and ride those ######s into battle
but really the gorge is kind of useless atm.
I've got no idea why roosting would be considered overpowered. Most of the more experienced NS1 folks were quite puzzled about an ability that makes you a total sitting duck in a more or less movement based game. I don't know how it was supposed to justify its presence, but apparently it didn't fit in after all.
I guess you could turn it into overpowered by some huge numerical buffs on damage reduction, spike damage, adren/HP regen or so, but I never got to try the thing in action so no comments on that.
Was looking forward to using that ability, imagine hanging on a tall roof with your wings wrapped around you presenting visually a small narrow profile, and watching a squad of marines walk past underneath you. You report the marines position to your team and either detach and attack the squad or detach and move to where the marines came from.
At the moment the whole lerk is overpowered , and I cant see how roost could be removed due to being OP... I mean hello, unlimited spikes which do as much or more damage as LMG's with a really tight spread, a area effect spore attack and a sniper spike that can 1 shot any marine that has taken even a slight amount of damage ( a bit of spore damage and its a 1 shot sniper spike ).
This isnt including the fact that the lerk is freaking hard to hit because of its mobility, and can soak up a repectable amount of damage.
( Lerk is my prefered alien lifeform to use but I feel dirty because it is too easy, I usually die because I get too complacent and try to be too cute :P )
Speaking of which, why is the Lerk spikes ( not the sniper spike ) so accurate compared to the LMG's ? It feels like the spikes have very little spread, where as using a LMG feels like using a water hose with a stick jammed into it ( ie the bullets go everywhere bar the aiming reticle ).
I believe roost was never actually in the game. I'm not sure of course, but staying at the ceiling while holding jump seemed more like a glide bug. Like the lerk kept moving upwards for some time.
This isnt including the fact that the lerk is freaking hard to hit because of its mobility, and can soak up a repectable amount of damage.
Speaking of which, why is the Lerk spikes ( not the sniper spike ) so accurate compared to the LMG's ? It feels like the spikes have very little spread, where as using a LMG feels like using a water hose with a stick jammed into it ( ie the bullets go everywhere bar the aiming reticle ).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good to know it wasn't just me that experienced this. I've said this a few times. Why is the Lerk superior to the Marines <b>at ranged attacking</b>? That doesn't make any ###### sense.
Gorge shield was fun and useful.
but really the gorge is kind of useless atm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do agree that the gorge hasn't reached the potential realized in NS1, but he's far from useless. Just the other day on rockdown a lerk and I(as a gorge) had one side of marine start totally cutoff for the entire game. Two players preventing a six man team from getting through. Hydras and healspray will do a lot.
not vs nades you didn't
No one, on either team, likes a hydra spamming gorge. I keep finding games that started lag free and then get borderline unplayable because a gorge thinks that hydra are so underpowered that they need to fill entire rooms with them, and that somehow this is appropriate behavior when marines get gl/ft. One game got so bad that i really need to thank the aliens for cussing that gorge off the server.
let's not turn this into a "lerk is op, bring back bite" thread.
It doesn't have to make sense. NS2 is a video game. Furthermore, NS2 is NS2.
Also, lerk costs 30 plasma. Marines cost 0 plasma.
True story.
The biggest issue is more with the energy cost of the Lerks abilities than anything else, the cost vs energy recovery is currently such that a Lerk can fire spikes constantly , or spam spores constantly ... only sniper spikes consume significant energy.
This makes the lerk function a lot like a machine gun nest, except he can resort to gassing targets or switching up to snipe a ranged target at will.
I wouldnt want bite back in, who wants a flying skulk but I would increase the energy costs of spikes and spores significantly so a Lerk cant just constantly spam spores and spikes.
... and sort out the LMG spray, ie take out the bloody stick out the muzzle of the gun and let it shoot straight :P
It costs how much to buy a Shotgun ( if its been researched in the first place ) , that doesnt give the Marine a bandolier of CN24 ( made up name) nerve gas , extended mags and a scope plus uranium cased slugs for ammo.
Make Lerk Snipe slower refire rate
Make Lerk regular Spike spread more (require close strafing).
Done!
Exactly. And in Natural Selection, you have two teams: Melee aliens, and ranged marines. Aliens are superior at melee distance. Marines are superior at range - wait, no they aren't. The aliens have the Lerk, whose ranged weapons are superior to every marine weapon that they can field, at range.
<!--quoteo(post=1820105:date=Dec 30 2010, 06:37 AM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Dec 30 2010, 06:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1820105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, lerk costs 30 plasma. Marines cost 0 plasma.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everyone uses this excuse. Using "more resources = more firepower" as the only balancing factor will make for a <b>mediocre <i>RTS</i></b> maybe, but for an RTS/<b>FPS</b> (or even any RTS that wants to be decent), it's a terrible, terrible idea. That reasoning justifies a high-resource-cost game-ending nuke.
When you're considering costs, the thing you have to consider is <b>not</b> the <u>flat cost</u> of the object of interest, but its <u>opportunity cost</u>. <b>Resources mean nothing if you don't use them.</b> At some point in time, any unspent resources represent wasted resources. So then you must assume that resources will always be spent - on a lifeform or upgrades.
What's the likelihood that a player will be able to gather 60 plasma (two lerk "lives")? Very high. Then, will the player be unable to go Lerk again if it goes Lerk now? No. If more expensive is better, why doesn't the player play a higher lifeform? He chooses not to. If the player only has 30 plasma, what can't he additionally do, or get, if he evolves into a Lerk? Nothing. What does the team lose by the player choosing to go Lerk? Nothing. Then, what does a player <b>forego</b> by (what is the <b>opportunity cost</b> of) going Lerk? <u>Nothing.</u>
Then, is having the resource cost of the object of interest as the <u>primary balancing factor</u> <i>reasonable</i> in this case (and many others)? <u>No.</u>
or perhaps they are looking for another tactic.
They certainly do not want to nerf him so much as in NS1...where he became hardly played.
What are the lerk's current weaknesses?
From what i noticed, the fact that they play like a sniper...allows you to sneak up right next to them.
and then what should i be using because the LMG is a spray weapon, useful for spraying skulks off my feet.
So what is the tactic(s), perhaps it become a tooltip...
I agree with this.
The main problem imo is the super low energy cost of the spikes. Lerks essentially get more accurate LMGs that never run out of ammo and never need to be reloaded. Either reduce the accuracy or increase the energy cost and spikes will be more balanced.
Make Lerk Snipe slower refire rate
Make Lerk regular Spike spread more (require close strafing).
Done!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think instead of making the spikes have a wide spread, I would rather them be affected by gravity. This means that at close range they go more or less where you aim but at long range the "bullet drop" would mean they would have to be used more skillfully.
Hm, yeah, adding in more drop (i.e. Medic's TF2 syringe gun) would help.
Hm, yeah, adding in more drop (i.e. Medic's TF2 syringe gun) would help.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would be great, keeps true to the Kharaa close-combat nature. It's pretty ridiculous being able to spike the Power Node when you're at the east end of the Marine spawn hallway on Rockdown :(